The pill and libido

blissed · 11-11-11 12:32:16

I'm thinking that perhaps the healthiest form of heterosexual sex learns from Sapphic experience of mutual masturbation involving hands and toys and creative imagination. This means both partners can enjoy sex with no pregnancy concerns and a woman can come off the pill and live with a totally natural hormonal balance and libido. Ideally when deciding to include intercourse it's natural, skin to skin with the intension of having a baby.

Has anyone come off the pill and noticed a change in libido?

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Last edited by blissed (11-11-11 12:33:35)

viva · 14-11-11 01:13:35

I'm not on the pill and I have lots of sex I reckon condoms are a shame but nothing's worth the wild angry mood swings I had when I was on the pill. I feel like my libido goes up and down like normal but it is more healthy when I'm not on the pill.

As far as whatever sex thing, I would be sad if I only got to fuck properly when I wanted to have a baby. What about people who never want to have children - sorry - no cock for you? Sad world hey.

blissed · 14-11-11 02:22:50

Yeah theres quite a few options really. The barrier method, taking your vaginal temperature to pinpoint ovulation. Then the next line of defence are drugs you don't have to take all the time like the morning after pill and RU-486.

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viva · 14-11-11 02:34:17

Don't know about RU-486 - sounds scary, and certainly the morning after pill is for emergency situations only. Yeah I find it really upsetting that there's no male equivalent to birth control pills - I wouldn't mind switching off with my partner, or maybe for a man the pill would be less involved with his hormone balance because of his lack of an ovulatory cycle.

Still condoms aren't the best, but they're fine, and if we're just concerned about pregnancy and not sexual health, the pull out method, when used correctly is actually quite effective. Just a bit sad for everyone involved. Still sex is a privlege and there's a nice built-in week every month where we can have skin on skin without any baby ish.

blissed · 14-11-11 04:05:23

Ha ha I know a lovely little 4 year old who's alive because pulling out only usually works

RU-486 is one of the most popular abortion pills. I call it RU-486 because abortion is too strong a word and emotionally inacurate for many. But for a few when they fall accidentally pregnant it hooks their brain and emotions in there and they're gonna have their baby.

It looks likely there will be a male contraceptive pill in about 3 years. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healt … -pill.html I wouldn't take it though. This might sound silly but it's not. One human body has trillions of components and is as complex as the entire human civilisation of earth down to it's last nut and bolt. Trade embargos cause more and more systemic disfunction the longer they go on. From space you can see what's going on ish. But you can't see why or how in it's complexity the whole earth organism is effected. We can use a microscope to get a similar view of the body and the long term effects of a well meaning but interferring drug.

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domC · 14-11-11 10:56:02

Pulling out freaks me out:

"Like many methods of birth control, reliable effect is achieved only by correct and consistent use. Observed failure rates of withdrawal vary depending on the population being studied: studies have found actual failure rates of 15–28% per year. In comparison, the pill has an actual use failure rate of 2–8%, while the intrauterine device (IUD) has an actual use failure rate of 0.8%. The condom has an actual use failure rate of 10–18%. However some authors suggest that actual effectiveness of withdrawal could be similar to effectiveness of condoms, and this area needs further research."

So it's not ideal at all - not only because it's not a particularly pleasurable way to have sex, but also because it still has a higher rate of failure than other contraceptive methods and is one of the hardest to actually perform correctly. Even with perfect use, it still has a higher rate of conception than perfect use of other contraceptive methods.

And RU-486 is effective, yeah, but traumatic. You get to go through essentially a miscarriage and even if that's early on in a pregnancy, it still has the potential to be traumatic. Side effects include:

Nausea or dizziness for a short time
Bleeding from the vagina about 12 hours after treatment
Bleeding and cramps that feel like a painful period – women who usually have painful periods are more likely to have severe cramping, but these symptoms usually lessen once the abortion is complete
Headache, diarrhoea and chills – women who need further treatment with prostaglandin are more likely to have these symptoms.

Similarly, I've taken the morning after pill a few times and it always leaves me feeling pretty nauseous for a day. It's definitely an "emergency" thing - not something you want to be taking whenever.

I take the pill - have been on it for years - and I don't feel like it screws around with my libido or like I'm on a hormonal roller-coaster. It obviously doesn't agree with all women - some women are more sensitive to it than others - but I'm pretty happy with it and went on it for birth control, sure, but also because it gives me some say over when I bleed and it helps to manage really painful periods (and hey, if we're talking about my blood, let's go the whole way and say really painful, heavy periods - like blood loss enough to make me faint on a regular basis and for someone to think I was miscarrying). This talk about "natural hormonal balance" is crap for some - when I was off the pill, I had no idea when I'd get my period and when it did rock up, I would be in bed for a few days and in pain for about five. Fuck that, I say. I'd love to get all Earth-Mother and say I can just let my body do its own thing, but frankly, when my body does its own thing, it seems like it's just out to get me. So: I for one thank science and have no problem with sticking shit in my body that interferes in a way that actually allows me to enjoy life.

blissed · 14-11-11 15:50:12

Thanks dom, the pill has different effects on different people and for some is a good regulater or medication. So there are Sapphic women and a few 12 year old girls who take the pill.

Looks like the intrauterine device is the most effective.

Then there are female condoms

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_condom

Which look like a much better solution if your partner has a forskin. and have a failure rate of 5% - 21%. and are thought to be more pleasurable for both partners. I think the correct use can get that figure down to single figures. Probably best to test one a few times in a mutual masturbation session while using a dildo to find out how a penis is best used for comfort, orgasmic pleasure and safety. Has anyone here tried them?

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Last edited by blissed (14-11-11 15:58:21)

jane_e · 14-11-11 16:20:03

Ohhh noo. There is nothing that gets me more riled up than the topic of birth control. Nothing.

While it may seem like there are lots of options out there, there aren't really a ton of alternatives to "the pill". Do you wanna know why? Because pharmaceutical companies make a ton of money off of it. Why would you waste time developing something new, or better, or safer, or fairer when you have a population that is willing to use your product every single [expletive deleted] day.

Admittedly, advancements have been made in hormone birth control but the principals have remained unchanged. My ex-boyfriend and I used to go back and forth on this all the time. I would think that I had worked up the courage to start using it...then every time I would panic and revert back to my but-what-about-the-fishes** argument. I don't even like eating forfeited breakfast cereal. Putting artificial and extra natural hormone into me freaked me out.

I did soooo much research about alternatives. The more I looked the more frustrated I got. Ultimately, I ended up getting a diaphragm. When I went to the clinic the doctor actually had to dust of the sizing thing. This was four or five years ago. Now, if I want to get a new diaphragm I have to go to the US. Our good friends at Johnson and Johnson stopped selling them in Canada not long after I got mine. Because? Because they were unsafe? Or ineffective? Nope, because they didn't make enough money. Oh good. Thanks J&J for having my back on this one.

Anyways, I could go on and on. I just don't get how we can put people into outer-space and not have a really good way of keeping people from making babies. Perhaps it speaks to the reproductive strength of humans. Maybe our programming keeps us from getting to good at developing birth control. Hum, never thought about that before....

**If you are interested in the but-what-about-the-fishes argument. Check out this article about the effect of estrogen on fish. It will be years (my guess is 20+) before wastewater treatment plants in Canada and the US regulatory treat for estrogen mimicking hormones and pharmaceuticals. By then we will really be wishing our birth control pills had come with a fish friendly certification...

viva · 15-11-11 00:24:08

Jane, did you like your diaphragm? I have considered it but they always look so big and unwieldy and well, just plain not sexy.

aven frey · 15-11-11 00:38:42

I've just actually come off the pill for the first time in about 10 years. I've now got a massive libido and acne! I'm actually starting to think it really affected many emotional type things, like, in the lead up to my period I no longer cry at (usually bad) sentimental commercials. Now I scoff and this is what I'd prefer.

Xebeche · 15-11-11 04:13:54

Viva (and others) - have you considered the cervical cap? A former partner I was with found it to her liking. It actually fits in quite easily with a little practice. It does require a prescription but the maintenance of it was very minimal (her opinion).

viva · 15-11-11 05:42:35

How is a cervical cap different to a diaphragm?

blissed · 15-11-11 09:11:42

I put cervical cap vs diaphram into google and got this

http://summaries.cochrane.org/CD003551/ … th-control

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domC · 15-11-11 10:13:54

On pharmaceutical companies and profit - it's not so bad for the pill consumer. I pay all of $20 for a four month supply (actually less now that I'm a student again - $5.50 or something for four months) and for people having sex regularly, that's cheaper than condoms (and if we want to talk about gross profits - let's talk about condoms and how fucking expensive they are). Anyway - again, I get slightly defensive about it, like the implication is that because I take the pill happily, I'm contributing to larger problems like pharmaceutical companies making cash and oestrogen in the water, when, the truth is that for so many women with menstrual disorders that can't be effectively managed through natural means (which is depressingly common) hormonal contraception makes a difference and is easy, relatively safe and straightforward. Ditto to women who take it for contraception and experience no short term, medium term or long ter

domC · 15-11-11 10:38:09

On pharmaceutical companies and profit - it's not so bad for the pill consumer. I pay all of $20 for a four month supply (actually less now that I'm a student again - $5.50 or something for four months) and for people having sex regularly, that's cheaper than condoms (and if we want to talk about gross profits - let's talk about condoms and how expensive they are). Anyway - again, I get slightly defensive about it, like the implication is that because I take the pill happily, I'm contributing to larger problems like pharmaceutical companies making cash and oestrogen in the water - I don't think it's an ideal situation, but at the same time, I don't have any internal conflict about it or feel like I'm a slave to the pharmaceutical companies. Definitely agree that it doesn't sit well for all women's bodies - but it's not an evil drug and women aren't pawns for using it. Hohum - diaphragms look complicated and I don't know if I'd want to go through the little dance of applying it and the concern that maybe I didn't apply it right. I like quick, easy, straightforward contraception that doesn't require me to plan or anticipate sex - not suggesting, though, that I have sex with people without a condom, but when I've been in long term relationships with a single sexual partner, I liked that sex could be spontaneous. And that kind of spontaneity only raised my libido, not lowered it.

With all of that said: women absolutely deserve options and we're clearly different, so applying any kind of one-size-fits-all policy to contraception is frustrating and belittling. Each type has a pretty compelling list of pros and cons and women should at least be able to decide what they do to their bodies.

I just don't get the slightly high-handed comments people make about going "natural" and how that's ideal. I see that at my gym with fuckheads who think the paleo diet is the only way to live and militantly stick by it. Those people absolutely profit from the diet, I can see that, but at what cost? Pleasure? Any kind of genuine delight in food? We put shit in our bodies every day, which is completely fine (we're humans, we like fucking with shit and putting crap in our bodies and we've been doing it for as long as anyone can remember and then a few thousand years more), it is not the root of all evil, we're not bad people for it, we don't need someone preaching and saying that it's not an ideal way of being.

I'll hop off my soap box now and go eat a box of oral contraceptives and antidepressants, washed down with a cup of coffee, a cigarette to smoke and some alcohol.

ps.

when I do bleed, I like using menstrual sponges. Maybe that environmentally offsets my oestrogen piss? I'd be lying if I said I used them for any kind of earthy natural goddess inclinations, though, but it sounds nice enough.

domC · 15-11-11 10:39:14

Captain Grumpalot - that's me.

WLV612 · 15-11-11 14:43:10

domC wrote:

I just don't get the slightly high-handed comments people make about going "natural" and how that's ideal. I see that at my gym with fuckheads who think the paleo diet is the only way to live and militantly stick by it. Those people absolutely profit from the diet, I can see that, but at what cost? Pleasure? Any kind of genuine delight in food? We put shit in our bodies every day, which is completely fine (we're humans, we like fucking with shit and putting crap in our bodies and we've been doing it for as long as anyone can remember and then a few thousand years more), it is not the root of all evil, we're not bad people for it, we don't need someone preaching and saying that it's not an ideal way of being.

That's one of the best paragraphs I've ever read. I wanted to add some insight but that stands perfectly by itself.

Brilliant!

jane_e · 15-11-11 14:49:56

domC wrote:

Captain Grumpalot - that's me.

Awah, DomC it's OK I still like you.

I think you make a good point, that there are a few options out there and that none of them are perfect. And that what is right for one person will not be right for everyone. All of the options have trade offs and deciding which things are important to you and finding a choice that has the right balance of good and evil for you is crucial.

It just erks me that the pill gets to hog most of the limelight.

Viva, I love the diaphragm (but refer to the disclaimer above). I like that it puts me in control of protection, is environmentally groovy, reasonably effective, and compatible with skin to skin contact. It doesn't look that sexy at first, but like the mechanical sound of a vibrator or green lantern tattoos if you associate it with sex long enough...it starts to feel pretty darn sexy. Also, once it's in it's gone and you can more or less forget about it. I also combine it with condoms or pulling out or hell both if I'm feeling precautions (which by the way...is pretty much always).

I haven't actually looked up how much pharmaceutical companies make off the pill but, in Canada at least, they are heavily subsidized by the government so that what you pay isn't what the companies get. Condoms, man those things are expensive. Maybe we should all right letters demanding better/cheaper options.

Bobby, I've never been on the pill and I still cry over commercials during the lead up phase. This is perfectly normal. They design them that way to sell more Kleenex. I'm sure of it.

viva · 16-11-11 01:04:48

Dom, it's sad that you feel the need to be defensive in comparison to women who go "natural" - because that's generally a misnomer anyway. Women don't go natural unless they're abstinent, infertile and otherwise unconcerned about their sexual health, or consistently preggers.

Personally as someone who goes "natural" when it comes to the pill, I am jealous of you who sustains only beneficial effects from it. I liked fucking whenever I pleased without a condom. I am a tactile person and I liked the feeling of come inside me, a long term reminder of the sex I had hours before. When I could fuck like that I felt more like I was sex all the time, like I was a big squishy mass of tissue and flesh.. if I was having regular sex, at any moment I had come inside me. That was hot to me.

Unfortunately I was also stark-raving lunatic before my period and felt really disconnected from my femininity. For me it was like I was a perfect toy for a man - sexable in any moment, predictably regular, impregnable (like a good fortress)... and just, not myself. I liked being a good toy. But I need it all, my cycles are my strength and my individuality.

So where's the pill for men, is what I want to know, so that I can once again walk around full of come all the time and feel like a squishy sex bag. Could companies presumably make the same amount of money if all the men were buying pills as when the women are?

To me, the cervical cap and diaphragm both seem weird and odd and I do not like predicting sex and it's hard for me to put things right when they're going up that far. I wanted so much to be a menstrual cup user and I just cannot be because the unease of not being sure if it was done right, or trying to get such a large thing in such a small place, or worrying about leaks, the pain it causes when I'm cramping... I just can't and I really wanted to! So for me those things are not really an option, but then again I haven't really tried...

blissed · 16-11-11 01:18:51

Viva the male pill is definitely about 3 years away, and they should pay you as a copywriter for the ads "Make your girlfriend feel like a squishy sex bag" I love that

Dom tell your gym people they shouldn't over romanticise the health benefits of a lifestyle from an era where the average life expectancy was 33 (Go intestinal worms!!) But I have adopted the tastier elements of their diet that have proven benefits like nuts and berries with some very non Palaeolithic live creamy yogurt, that's gorgeous!!

Jane it would be nice to have more options and I've found 2

There's Paragard

http://www.paragard.com/what-is-paragard/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLZooLUa … ure=fvwrel

And for women who need to take the pill medicinally but who's libido is suppressed by at as well. Genetically tailored treatments could be the answer. http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn7 … drugs.html

bobby considering how sexually inspiring you and your work is, you now having a good libido seems so right.

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Last edited by blissed (16-11-11 01:22:07)

VeronicaF · 16-11-11 02:45:53

Wish they had breeding licenses and compulsory but fully reversable tube tying. It would save so many population problems and reduce public stupidity. Ahhh a girl can dream.

Anyway I've done the pill thing (which I was pretty hopeless with) and am now on Implanon to counteract my bouts of forgetfulness. It's been almost 5 years and I've only just started having problems. It's funny how something can be so effective for so long and then change completely almost overnight. Hormones are weird things. Anyway fortnightly periods suck balls, so it's time to get this sucker out of my arm, no matter how cyborgy it makes me feel.

Xebeche · 16-11-11 03:53:46

VeronicaF wrote:

Wish they had breeding licenses and compulsory but fully reversable tube tying. It would save so many population problems and reduce public stupidity. Ahhh a girl can dream.

So, you're for the reincorporation of eugenics to keep stupidity down? That's cool I guess. Which model do you think we should follow? WW2 Germany? Rwanda? Bosnia? Do you get to decide who has the right level of intelligence to reproduce? What do we do to people who reproduce without permission?

Any other fully invasive surgeries women should have? While doing the hysterectomy, should we just grab a kidney right there for a person who might need it that's smarter later? You ready to decide that, too?

viva · 16-11-11 04:37:39

Here we go!

VeronicaF · 16-11-11 04:39:05

Xebeche wrote:

Any other fully invasive surgeries women should have? While doing the hysterectomy, should we just grab a kidney right there for a person who might need it that's smarter later? You ready to decide that, too?

Nope that's where the organ printer comes in.

As for eugenics...yeah sticky decision making there and I would never claim a human capable of making that call. Technology I think could be far superior. Not what we have now, but definitely a future AI.

VeronicaF · 16-11-11 04:43:30

Xebeche wrote:

What do we do to people who reproduce without permission?

Oh and that....we're talking hypotheticals here. I'm saying this in relation to a flawless or near flawless sterilization procedure done at birth. As I said, not current technology. It just generally wouldn't happen.

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