Female Doctors

carstuff1000 · 09-05-11 18:19:49

Recently I have met with 2 female doctors, once for myself, and once for my stepson. The 2 doctors were 2 of the most beautiful females I have ever seen in my life. I could'nt keep my eyes off their pretty faces and lovely bodies. My imagination ran wild. Have any other members met any stunning professionals and been awestruck by their beauty ? [I think that a doctor patient duet would be nice] :-)

blissed · 09-05-11 23:09:24

Wonder why it's considered unethical for a doctor to date a patient. They must see a few people they find atractive during their working week. If a doctor met one special person they took a shine too why not let them be in love. I think the rule is untrusting and miserably love/sex negative.

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blissed · 09-05-11 23:10:59

Ooh and yeah I've seen a few sexy doctors I think they should be free!!!

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xxEPxx · 09-05-11 23:38:15

There was a policewoman that helped me a while back who was just utterly lovely. I could have easily fallen for her.

xxEPxx

Xebeche · 10-05-11 00:07:34

Might be easier to imagine if you think of a psychiatrist dating a patient. What happens if that relationship goes sour? If the patient dumps the doctor, is there any possible way the doctor will be able to perform their job with needed objectivity (I don't think so). If the doctor leaves the patient, is there anyway the patient will be able to confide in that doctor about the recent heartbreak they've gone through in a healthy way? Not so much.

There is also concern for a regular practitioner or internist. If you start seeing your physician, there are also risks.

I don't, however, think that someone like an emergency room doctor that you might only see one time would be a problem (although even then...were you in shock? Were you thinking clearly?)

Easiest thing to do is just put yourself in the professional's shoes and ask "what's the worst thing that could happen for me assuming this relationship went horribly bad?"

blissed · 10-05-11 01:26:45

Dan the patient would stop seeing Julie the psychiatrist and would see another psychiatrist. You can actually fuck your dentist Can't see why that's different. You would go to another dentist. Better to have guidlines about relationships than just ban them.

Xebeche wrote:

There is also concern for a regular practitioner or internist. If you start seeing your physician, there are also risks.

What are the risks.

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Last edited by blissed (10-05-11 01:31:39)

viva · 10-05-11 01:44:17

Psychiatry is a different story... woah it is so important that the person you're meant to let go emotionally with doesn't take advantage of your open vulnerability to fuck you.... I mean that is akin to going in for a nice quit-smoking hypnotism session and waking up with your panties in your mouth.

no thanks.

But seriously, these patient/doctor love restrictions exist to ensure that your doctor's office is a safe place where you can trust that you will go and not get ogled while your pants are down. A male gynecologist shouldn't make eye contact and ask me about my favorite kind of flowers while he's poking around inside me. A single woman doctor shouldn't be on the prowl assessing each patient for datability, she should be focused professionally on doing her job.

aven frey · 10-05-11 03:19:20

Not to mention these professionals see a lot of the general public and if I were one I would be very appreciative of a law that articulated boundaries for me. Even if you can't stop someone objectifying you it's handy to not have to explain why you don't want to date them also.

viva · 10-05-11 04:35:15

^ great point.

blissed · 10-05-11 12:31:43

Isn't all that part of being professional anyway, like sound engineers and film crew not taking pictures of the famous people they work with. It's common courtesy and professionalism. In the same way I don't think a doctor should proposition a patient at work. But if a patient asks a doctor or a doctor meets a patient outside and the resumed conversation develops into an attachment, I don't see anything wrong with that. There are pitfalls with anything we do but isn't it better to have a set of rules that respect people as adults and appreciate they can have good judgement. the whole medical profession is based on that. A ban just seems to cut across a mutual attraction and the fact that people meet and fall in love no matter how many rules we want to put in place to stop them.

And doesn't some of this go back to what I was saying before about men being encouraged to focus on our own desire so much that we'd make a totally unsolicited sexual advance to someone without getting any sign at all that they desire us? and that kind of proposition being accepted as normal even though it's a low level constant nuisance like unsolicited door to door sellers or phone canvassing.. Perhaps at the root of it is a common view of sex that men chase women when really both have desire, and dom, sub or equal roles are taken by both sexes and all genders any time they wish. It seems most Sapphic women make sexual connections with far fewer of these problems. perhaps if we learned from them we wouldn't need so many rules to cope with unsolicited advances because they'd be far fewer of them.

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Xebeche · 10-05-11 15:00:13

viva wrote:

A male gynecologist shouldn't make eye contact and ask me about my favorite kind of flowers while he's poking around inside me.

When I went to the gynecologist with my gf a few years ago, the doctor told her (in the middle of the exam, wrist deep here ><)"you have a very nice cervix!".

Now, there were 4 people in the room including doctor, nurse, my gf and me - which to me illustrates that for the doctor it was a purely scientific statement, but it did cause "where the hell did that come from " laughter...

viva wrote:

A single woman {or male} doctor shouldn't be on the prowl assessing each patient for datability, she should be focused professionally on doing her job.

{addition mine}
This is the kicker for me. The word "creepy" gets thrown around a lot in some places, but if a doctor is seriously open to using their patient roster as additional dating choices, that to me is a red flag that indicated "GTFO - boundary issues".

blissed · 10-05-11 17:21:36

I can't think of one doctor I know that comes anywhere near your characterisation. Your doctor would also have to find their patients outside of the surgery to allow a sexual relationship to develop. Plus your thinking in terms of intrusive predatory sex not respectful mutual attraction. Allowing relationships between a doctor and a patient doesn't suddenly give carte blanche to sexual abuse, just like it doesn't in any work environment that allows relationships. The person a doctor has a relationship with just falls into the same area as a doctors spouse or family. They have to declare an interest and use another doctor to preserve the patients right to refuse a medical opinion or treatment.

I think the code of ethics is based on sex negative assumptions that if someone has sexual feelings they must be evil and must always act on them( without any discapline or consideration or love), and only needs a few thoughtful changes that allow for the occasional mutual attraction. If that happened I don't think the proffession would fall to pieces and I would still see my preferred doctor, who's a woman.

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Last edited by blissed (10-05-11 18:10:42)

aven frey · 11-05-11 02:37:39

can't you just change doctors and then date? I think the power dynamic in a doctor patient relationship makes this different to say sound engineers and famous people, and also possibly why it makes it hotter/fetishised etc. Did someone just whisper Foucault in the wind?

aven frey · 11-05-11 02:41:23

Xebeche, a doctor once said I had the prettiest cervix he'd seen all day (to which I'd replied very dryly, obviously it's the only cervix you've seen today). I haven't gone back to him, mostly because I felt patronised but still, totally inappropriate. Comparing notes with a friend, he'd said the same thing to her also!

blissed · 11-05-11 13:58:06

I haven't read any foucault just seen an emotionally stunted long winded video

I think the power dynamic of doctors is a bit of a high status formal dress power illusion used to intimidate customers. It tends to stop people shopping around. It intimidated you into not telling the doc their comments were inappropriate. We have no probs in telling a shop assistant something is wrong.

Tthe ADA wrote:

Dentists should avoid interpersonal relationships that could impair their professional judgment or risk the possibility of exploiting the confidence placed in them by a patient.

I can't see what's wrong with that. If I was a doctor and I had a thing for a patient, they could say be drug addicted, even if they didn't feel that way towards me I'd have to tell them and recommend they see another doctor, but I'd still offer to help them informally if they wanted me too.

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Last edited by blissed (11-05-11 14:21:03)

aven frey · 12-05-11 03:06:45

Actually I would be more likely to tell a doctor (which is why when I said what I did to him it was dry, very dry and probably a bit haughty) that they were being inappropriate than I would a shop assistant. People in positions of authority have a bigger scope to abuse said authority and therefore more of a responsibility not to. On the contrary, rather than finding him intimidating I just found him annoying and a bit sad. If I knew he made such jokes about scrotums than I'd feel different but I'm almost sure he does not.

blissed · 12-05-11 04:24:19

I've had a female doctor examine my penis and if she'd said I had a nice penis I'd feel chuffed. I think this highlights just how far from ideal the power relationship is between men and women, a status quo your doctor is obviously happy with. it would be nice to think in 10 or 20 years that had changed for the better. Influencing male behaviour is a big part of how we get there I think, with a general movement reflected in blogs like critical masculinities http://criticalmasculinities.wordpress.com/

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aven frey · 12-05-11 04:37:06

http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/20 … arassment/

just to clarify, not a dig at the first thing you/Blissed wrote at all but I think this is what you/he are getting at with the rest of the post.

Xebeche · 12-05-11 05:38:39

Bobby's got a good point. Why not switch doctors and then pursue a relationship with your previous medical professional? If they are so special, it seems like this wouldn't be a problem at all.

blissed wrote:

I think the code of ethics is based on sex negative assumptions that if someone has sexual feelings they must be evil and must always act on them( without any discapline or consideration or love)
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No, the code of ethics is based upon creating an environment that facilitates the transference of medical information from one party to another, while at the same time removing as many factors as possible that would impede honest and clear communication. It is there to protect the doctor from malpractice and the patient from abuse of a person with more authority (in that given situation).

These kinds of codes are created to protect someone not from most physicians, but from the small minority of idiots who would, through whatever behavior, cause their patient to feel either unsafe or unable to communicate their medical condition.

bobby wrote:

Xebeche, a doctor once said I had the prettiest cervix he'd seen all day (... I haven't gone back to him, mostly because I felt patronised but still, totally inappropriate. Comparing notes with a friend, he'd said the same thing to her also!

I'm not sure on protocol - is a nurse required to be in the room during a gynecological procedure in Aussieland? In the States, I am pretty sure you wouldn't find a doctor who would do any kind of vaginal exam without an assistant staff member to act as witness. Malpractice insurance makes clinics pretty strict about that.

The doctor my gf saw was a woman (I was a brat and wrote about it in a gender-neutral fashion intentionally). My guess is the doctor's comment was made to make my gf feel "normal". She was pretty young at the time and it might have even been her first cervical exam.

From my own experience, it can be reassuring when a physician relates information that's comparative and lets you know you're at least "normal". I have a feeling your doctor was probably trying to be helpful but didn't even stop to think of how it would come across from male physician to female patient (not that everyone will react the same way to his comment, but it's best to think "what's the worst case scenario here" - imo, anyway. If there was no second pair of eyes in the room...yeah, he's an idiot.

blissed · 12-05-11 10:47:36

I think your still on dodgy ground with an ex patient. My point is that losing your licence and the investment of 7 years minimum training and a lifetime experience and your main livelihood because you had a sexual relationship seems excessive and based on sex negative assumptions about what a sexual relationship is. and what sex is. and that love isn't a interplay of taking and giving. If the sexual relationship was all about taking and exploitative then sure that would be like anything exploitative like making elicit money from patients. but to penalise 2 people in love so heavily because they met as doctor and patient seems really tight.

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Last edited by blissed (12-05-11 11:04:10)

acadamatty · 13-05-11 01:20:49

blissed wrote:

Isn't all that part of being professional anyway, like sound engineers and film crew not taking pictures of the famous people they work with. It's common courtesy and professionalism.

Beacause, and this is true of the social professions above all, the non-professional isn't always so great at respecting the boundaries. And while it is possible that such a liaison could be perfectly innocent and positive, there's so much scope for it not to be that you'd be a fool to risk it. Or hate your job...

Last edited by acadamatty (13-05-11 01:23:39)

hyperballad · 13-05-11 02:09:45

I think laws surrounding doctor/patient relationships were made for a reason.

Not all laws have everyone's best interests at heart, but this one, I think, is an example of law making to protect people who are at a disadvantage.

In being a patient you are in the place of being more vulnerable and suggestable automatically. This is not for any other reason but the fact you are a patient and your partner is your doctor.

It's the reason teacher/student relationships are not okay.

There is a default position of advantage/power in being a teacher or doctor and having a relationship with a student or patient.

If the doctor initiates a relationship with a patient, how can someone they are treating fully give consent if they are under the impression this person has a duty of care to look after their wellbeing?

It crosses all kinds of ethical/moral boundaries.

On the other hand, doctors shouldn't have to feel unsafe or objectified, or just plain old get hit on in their daily pratice. How many people come through a gp office in a day, or a week?

If dating your doctor was accepted, imagine how many times a doctor would get hit on in the course of their working week? How many patients they may have to potentially decline seeing further in a professional capacity based on these sorts of encounters?

Imagine a womens health visit to your doctors, then following it up with a 'hey, whatchu doing on Saturday night?' - that's a violation of the trust implicit in a doctor/patient relationship. Whether it's the doctor or patient asking that question in this scenerio.

It blurs the line between professional treatment and personal encounters.

Last edited by hyperballad (13-05-11 02:13:37)

blissed · 13-05-11 12:55:54

I think sexual harassment is getting conflated with friendship and mutual attraction. They're 2 separate things. There are patients who are vulnerable and there are patients who are empowered, taking advantage of someones vulnerability is harassment. wether it's sexual or not.

All I'm advocating is that when a doctor patient relationship becomes a friendship [it doesn't have to be sexual). then as your friends, with no element of pursuit a sexual element can be determined between you outside the professional environment. "What are you doing tonight" is about nothing. "You should come to the opening, my friends work is amazing" is about something and it isn't a proposition. If 2 people are obviously instantly attracted (and allowing their relationship is what my guidelines are mainly aimed at) they can both go to the opening. This will be happening anyway, especially in a small community with one doctor. Otherwise that doctor could have no local friends.

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ngaio · 14-05-11 04:21:57

Well put Hyperballad.

blissed · 14-05-11 12:11:11

I think the experience of going to the doctor would be safer and better after a review of the code. This one proposal in an ethics review would get media attention and especially if it featured on TV would propel it from the usual internal debate into a public debate about everything we've discussed here, which would raise public and official awareness of intentional and unintentional sexual harassment, lead to better training and more responsive rules and minimum targets to ensure we can see a doctor or specialist of our own sex at least in sensitive areas. If such a public review rejected the proposal which seems likely from this thread in any form it would be sad because I think it's humane, but it'd be nice if it didn't and allowed it to form part of the improvements.

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#1 09-05-11 18:19:49

Female Doctors

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