A bit of romance.

bodyhead · 27-07-06 10:58:05

Burlesque wrote:

I will concede that coolness of mind and organised logic have their place in any number of circumstances, and that they can be used to sift through what one has learned, but they are not, in my experience, the best tools with which to gather the knowledge itself. They make you distance yourself from the subject, and I think that is the core of the problem for many of us here: a feeling of distance, of being out of reach and out of touch.

Yes, but there are other ways of reflecting on experience other than "coolness of mind and organised logic". I don't think "organised logic" has any place at all here. One can think about one's experience without going all logical like a mathematician.

Will · 27-07-06 11:22:31

I have to be honest and say that I am not at all satisfied with my romantic life. I'm 26 years old, and while I have a "respectible" sexual history (depending on my own thoughts on the subject), I feel that I have missed out in terms of the question of love.

It's hard to explain why exactly. I have fallen in love before, and had girls fall for me. Unfortunately however I have yet to have the two things happen in union, and for that I am truely sorry.

The most recent experience was on my travels around Australia, where I did meet someone and let myself fall quite hard. Unfortunately it wasn't to happen. I'm a "lovely guy", but as much as it may be romantic to think so, the logistics of trying to build a relationship between two busy people from opposite ends of the UK isn't easy. The girl didn't want to try, and I have to respect that.
The night that I did tell her I liked her though, and when we did share a lovely kiss, will stay in my memory for a long time. For one night I felt completely at ease with the world.....

One major issue which has plauged me in my relationship history however is something that happened a few years ago. I was in a relationship with an amazing and lovely girl with whom I barely deserved. I might have mentioned it on IFM before, but I cheated on her. I was young and selfish, and I thought I was some sort of bigshot. I also had a stupid idea in my head that I hadn't enjoyed a varied sexual history, and so felt I didn't want to lose out.

However, it was the worst mistake of my life. I did something which I had always promised myself I would never do, and in the process hurt my best friend. I have never had a relationship like it before or since, and despite the fact we did carry on our relationship in one degree or another, it wasn't to last.

Since then I have always had this hanging over me. I believe I am a genuine and a good person, and I wish I had the oppertunity to fall in love and have the chance to really show what I believe I am capable of. Untill I get that chance however I feel that I will never fully forgive myself for what happened. I'll never be able to let it go.

Sex is no longer a huge interest for me. Don't get me wrong, of course I still think about it as much as any red bloodied man. It's just that I have no desire to engage unless I am in a relationship. Sex is great, and I do miss it (none since febuary), but one night stands aren't my thing. I've just always preferred sex when there is that genuine and shared desire for each other.

I was seeing a girl (The American) at the beginning of the year, but that wasn't to work out. We were two different people and there was no real connection. At least on my part as I was unwilling to fully commit myself. She was perhaps the most stunning girl I have been involved with, but there has to be more.
I admit I did miss her recently when I first got to Sydney and I was alone, and I did email her with the idea to possibly form some sort of reconciliation. She's amazingly stubborn though and never replied. Probably for the best. I was missing her because I was lonely, not because I specifically missed her.

Maybe it is silly and overly-romantic, but at this stage in my life I want to meet someone with whom I have an amazing connection. It happens rarely, and so when it did happen in Oz I was (overly) hopefull. It wasn't to be however.

I do feel I'm getting slightly bitter on the subject. I feel I have a lot to offer anyone. I'm attractive,I'm friendly (and occasionally bloody funny), I'm fit, I have a new career starting soon and I have some money behind me. It's all for nothing though. I have tried so hard to recreate myself into the genuine and honest person I had always wanted to be, and I believe I am. However, I still wonder if the fact that I have so many issues hanging over me with what happened makes the difference.

Last edited by Will (27-07-06 11:29:39)

Siobhan · 27-07-06 14:41:19

Will and Pete --

Thank you both for sharing your stories. I look forward to hearing more.

PeteUK · 27-07-06 16:47:07

As others have said, this forum has been evolving. While it may have started out as a place to voice our appreciation of IFM’s exquisite video submissions – although the pleasures of these wonderful ladies must and always shall remain at its heart – it’s becoming a strong and important online community in its own right. There are few, if any places where one can safely discuss this kind of intensely personal matter: to find such a welcoming, intelligent, and open-minded forum in which to do so is a rare stroke of luck.

Thank you all for your kind words. And long may the IFM community (and all its delightfully perverted members!) continue to bloom.

Will · 27-07-06 19:01:21

Siobhan wrote:

Will and Pete --
Thank you both for sharing your stories. I look forward to hearing more.

Of course.

And i agree with PeteUK in that's it's refreshing to find a forum where topics such as these can be spoken about openly without the worry of either ridicule or embarrassment or someone berating you for "feeling sorry for yourself". It's a huge topic in all of our lives, and it deserves to be treated with respect.

The_Elfman · 27-07-06 19:16:50

Will wrote:

Maybe it is silly and overly-romantic, but at this stage in my life I want to meet someone with whom I have an amazing connection. It happens rarely, and so when it did happen in Oz I was (overly) hopefull. It wasn't to be however.

I don't think that's silly at all Will. I think this is what anyone with any degree of emotional maturity wants. If we are very lucky we get great sex as well but If I had to choose between a string of great but shallow sexual encounters or a life-long relationship with someone I loved and who loved me I'd choose the latter option in a heartbeat.

I think it is nice that this thread has allowed us to talk about realtionships rather than simply discussing sexuality in isolation. (Well done Burlesque).

bobsully wrote:

Define "damaged goods." I don't consider myself damaged goods. This brings back the discussion of intellect. Emotion is fine and is needed, but using one's mind and probing our instinct are just as important. I don't think emotion is the best tool for gleening knowledge. To understand anything you have to involve intelligence rather than limit it to your emotions or instinct.
You distance yourself.

What I mean by "damaged goods" is those of us who as a result of experiencing some form of emotional or physical abuse, or sometimes because of "conditioning" as children (Primary Socialisation I think sociologists call it) have difficulty in forming or sustaining satisfying and rewarding romantic or sexual relationships. This is often rooted in low self esteem which can lead to feelings of isolation and "strangeness" which only exacerbates the problem. I am convinced that one of the most uesful functions this forum offers is that by allowing us to share our feelings and experiences we learn that we not alone. This can be very comforting and cathartic. At no time did I seek to imply that every contributor to this forum fell into this category, but it is clear from reading these pages over the last few months that many of would freely confess to doing so.

I think I have to respectfully disagee with you on the matter of intellect over emotion bobsully. For me anything which can only be understood with the mind cannot truly be understood. I will always trust my feelings over my intelect. I also feel that science is a very limited tool for exploring emotional or psycological matters. Science can tell me what percentage of the population of the industrialised world is gay for example but it cannot tell what it is to be gay, or to live in a society where homophobia is so common. Sadly we have all recently seen the possible dangers of discussing a deeply emotive subject in purely scientific terms.

For me Burlesque expresses my feelings on this beautifuly in post #25 of this thread. Very well put sir.

Elfman.

Last edited by The_Elfman (27-07-06 20:17:56)

Siobhan · 27-07-06 20:46:04

Hello all --

I would like to request, once again respectfully, that we not engage in disagreements about personal experience, intellect, emotion, rationality, analysis, etc (I'm just using the words that have been used), particularly as this conversation seems to point to underlying places of possible contention. I would actually beg that, except that you can't hear my voice so you don't know how desperate I am in that request. I love and need all of those things to understand the world and who I am in the world, and I'm grateful for and turned on by all of those tools in this forum. Those who prefer one end of the range of communicate tools will, I hope, simply choose not to engage with the parts that don't speak to them.

This would mean a great deal to me, and allow me to feel that I have the space to keep talking.

bobsully · 27-07-06 21:05:29

I am glad you all have each other. I'm sure there will be benefit from opening up regarding issues in your life. My best to all of you. I have enjoyed my stay.

Burlesque · 27-07-06 21:05:49

You needn't worry about me, at least, Siobhan. I will, as always, remain composed and cool .

Burlesque.

The_Elfman · 27-07-06 21:09:40

Siobhan wrote:

Hello all --
I would like to request, once again respectfully, that we not engage in disagreements about personal experience, intellect, emotion, rationality, analysis, etc (I'm just using the words that have been used), particularly as this conversation seems to point to underlying places of possible contention. I would actually beg that, except that you can't hear my voice so you don't know how desperate I am in that request. I love and need all of those things to understand the world and who I am in the world, and I'm grateful for and turned on by all of those tools in this forum. Those who prefer one end of the range of communicate tools will, I hope, simply choose not to engage with the parts that don't speak to them.

This would mean a great deal to me, and allow me to feel that I have the space to keep talking.

I agree Siobhan. I think that this thread is best employed as a venue for sharing our experiences. Let's just enjoy the "flowers" and avoid the temptation to pick the petals off of them.

Elfman

Last edited by The_Elfman (27-07-06 22:32:36)

Burlesque · 27-07-06 21:10:27

bobsully wrote:

I am glad you all have each other. I'm sure there will be benefit from opening up regarding issues in your life. My best to all of you. I have enjoyed my stay.

Ah, subtle sarcasm? Anyway, Bobsully, I'm sorry to see you're leaving. I hope you'll drop in again, perhaps for a longer stay. You're an interesting and smart person, and it has been good talking to you. Be well!

Burlesque.

The_Elfman · 27-07-06 21:16:33

bobsully wrote:

I am glad you all have each other. I'm sure there will be benefit from opening up regarding issues in your life. My best to all of you. I have enjoyed my stay.

I hope that you will reconsider bobsully. You have contributed a great deal to this forum and I'm sure have a great deal more to contribute.

Elfman

Burlesque · 27-07-06 21:41:50

bobsully wrote:

Burlesque wrote:
Ah, subtle sarcasm? Burlesque.
Nah...just better to hope for the best, and fuck the rest...

Now that's what I call a philosophy .

Burlesque.

Siobhan · 03-08-06 20:13:31

...it's so quiet in here you can almost hear the desks in the IFM offices settling onto the vid boxes holding them up. . . . Seems like the massive heat wave across half of the world and the cold hard winter just ending in the other half have conspired to make us all very quiet. I thought now would be a time to return to the romance thread. Hi all -- stay cool; stay warm; this too shall pass.

When I first posted about Lara, above, I ended with this sentence, which I then deleted, as it started something entirely new:

But back to Bill. He was my husband, he was not my lover – this was how I managed to make peace with the demands of my culture (the peace was internal; the marriage was secret; until his death, very few people knew we were married).
The simple fact that a woman, with my body and my birth certificate, was espoused to a man, with this legal and ecclesiastical seal of approval, in sickness and in health, until death do us part, made me feel that I’d satisfied some human requirement, even though I’d long railed against that requirement.

He would have loved this place. I think of him often, here. He loved to watch, he loved beautiful young women, he was an absolute obsessive who spent untold hours at the computer manipulating photographs of my naked body out in the woods, til he got the result he wanted (which was never, really, so he could take pleasure in the continual toying).

We got married for the oddest of reasons, and the most common, in some ways. I could say, in the clear cold light of time, that we had a mutual arrangement, but cold language comes easy right now because I’m typing this from a big black slab of a desk I never use; it has clean white butcher paper running across its surface, and it faces a window that looks out over my front porch, and then to the street. The air conditioning is finally on, and the slats of the louvered blinds let in a kind of cobalt light, and everything conspires to make me feel cool and clinical and devoid of feeling.

To say that we had a “mutual arrangement” does not speak at all to the way I keened and clung to his dying body in hospital, or to the volumes of his papers that I could not part with, that sat in one house and then another and finally this basement until Katrina hit last year and STILL I could not quit them – finally two months ago, two nice friends who don't mind mold and were not straitjacketed by memories came over and went through the basement and removed everything of his, all of it.

I kept his ashes, and one photo – he was a six-year-old blonde-headed boy, holding his Army general father’s hand on the island of Corregidor.

He was almost 70 when we did what we did.
I was in my early 20s.

---------------------------

Marriage changes a person. And marriage changes what two people have together.

When we met he was a client of mine; I was editing his memoirs. We were working in France, in Arles, in the library created from the sanitarium where Van Gogh went crazy, when one night he proposed the most outlandish thing:

(to be continued. . . .)

aven frey · 04-08-06 07:32:45

Siobhan wrote:

(to be continued. . . .)

see now I know what it feels like!!!
Siobhan your writing is beautiful and I'm sure I'm not alone when I say I'm starting to look foward to the next installments!!

Burlesque · 04-08-06 09:28:37

max wrote:

Siobhan wrote:
(to be continued. . . .)
see now I know what it feels like!!!
Siobhan your writing is beautiful and I'm sure I'm not alone when I say I'm starting to look foward to the next installments!!

Serves you right, Max! A bit of your own medicine! Ha! Good show, Siobhan, keep her waiting and begging for more, the way she has tormented ... Wait a minute ... This is just another way to torture me. You're all in it together, I know you are!

Burlesque.

jerryb76 · 04-08-06 12:08:05

Thank-you Siobhan, that was beautiful and well worth the wait.

Burlesque · 04-08-06 22:15:04

I was so busy being paranoid I sort of forgot the point of what I wanted to say: Siobhan, this is great writing no matter how you look at it, and it vibrates with emotion and the chiaroscuro shadings of dark loss and bright memory, charcoal and gold intermingled in one very captivating piece of literature. Added to which you are of course quite the tease: I won't even try to count the number of cliffhangers in "Part 2" alone. You have a rapt audience here, I can assure you of that.

Burlesque.

Siobhan · 07-08-06 16:27:18

I'd like to thank y'all who've been so generous with your comments to me. It has caught me off guard, so forgive me for the time it's taken to acknowledge your compliments.
This stuff has all been bottled up for a long time -- I can't even pull it out when I want to. I'm not deliberately holding back; it's simply that I'm completely blocked to even communicate to myself about these things, much less you all, and then a few times I've sat down and shut my eyes and typed without stopping for 20 minutes and some stuff has emerged. I'm grateful for being able to do here what I can't do in a journal (i don't even keep journals. they're all blank after a few words). I look forward to more stories from others as
well -- we all learn from one another, and life feels richer as a result.

Alors, Monsieur Jolicrasseux, vous (comme les autres la) etes trop gentile -- je vous donne mille mots de merci.

Anyway, thank y'all and I'm going to keep on just putting stuff down as it comes. Enough with the compliments, pleeeeeze! i've gotten plenty from you and more would make me feel awkward.

Warmtouch · 08-08-06 00:41:34

Fascinating. How varied is human experience, and what nonsense the media feeds us about the nature of "normality."

seamfree · 08-08-06 02:55:23

I've spent the best part of the afternoon reading this stuff and I feel profoundly and deeply humbled by what Siobhan in particular has written. Thank you very much for your honesty, humility and courage Siobhan. We need more people like you in the world today. As they say in the land of the long white cloud - kia kaha, kia manawanui.

Siobhan · 08-08-06 03:34:00

seamfree wrote:

As they say in the land of the long white cloud - kia kaha, kia manawanui.

tena koutou, seamfree, tena koutou.

seamfree · 08-08-06 06:41:17

Kia ora kia koe Siobhan, he tumeke wahine toa ataahua o te wa tenei. Tino pai te korero ia koe ki ahau me te korero ki te runanga i roto tenei wa. Tino pai te kaupapa ia koe tenei.

Siobhan · 09-08-06 00:28:30

I'm afraid the only word I understood in there was this one: "Siobhan."

The rest I'm afraid will require translation.

Burlesque · 09-08-06 00:33:36

It means:

"Kom igen nu Siobhan, nu tycker jag att du ska fortsätta med din självbiografi. Hittills har vi bara fått läsa två delar och nu börjar det bli dags för den tredje. Att du faktiskt har ett liv är ingen ursäkt alls."

Translation accomplished, Siobhan. I like to be of assistance whenever I can.

Burlesque.

#26 27-07-06 10:58:05

Re: A bit of romance.

#27 27-07-06 11:22:31

Re: A bit of romance.

#28 27-07-06 14:41:19

Re: A bit of romance.

#29 27-07-06 16:47:07

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#30 27-07-06 19:01:21

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#31 27-07-06 19:16:50

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#32 27-07-06 20:46:04

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#33 27-07-06 21:05:29

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#34 27-07-06 21:05:49

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#35 27-07-06 21:09:40

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#36 27-07-06 21:10:27

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#37 27-07-06 21:16:33

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#38 27-07-06 21:41:50

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#39 03-08-06 20:13:31

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#40 04-08-06 07:32:45

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#41 04-08-06 09:28:37

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#42 04-08-06 12:08:05

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#43 04-08-06 22:15:04

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#44 07-08-06 16:27:18

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#45 08-08-06 00:41:34

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#46 08-08-06 02:55:23

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#47 08-08-06 03:34:00

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#48 08-08-06 06:41:17

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#49 09-08-06 00:28:30

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#50 09-08-06 00:33:36

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