So let's rant about books

footman2 · 12-07-06 03:43:27

I started a book of Bukowski short stories but had to put it down because it just kept me in a place that wasn't right.

Amused digust is a great way to put it but for me it was heavy on the disgust

Siobhan · 12-07-06 04:56:31

footman - I'm so glad you put Coming Through Slaughter on your list; I love that book as well. Have you read his others and if so, do you share my thoughts about In the Skin of a Lion?

For folks who love non-dualistic relationships, another thing that interests me about Ondaatje is that in all of his novels (save for the last and imo weakest one, Anil's Ghost), there is a central relationship -- an erotic pull between and amongst THREE characters, a holy triad. For quite some time after university, I noticed that going on in my life as well, so that might also be why I love him so so much.

Li, am with you on 100 years of Solitude, which I haven't read since I was 15 and you've just reminded me that i said i'd read again this year. thank you. AND I'm so with you on White Teeth. Zadie Smith is amazing. I wonder -- there's another immigrant-family-in-London-at-the-end-of-the-20th-century novel that I adore: The Buddha of Suburbia, by Hanif Kureishi. Wonder if you've read that and want to recommend it if you've not.

He also wrote the novella with my favorite ever ('wish I'd written it') title: "With My Tongue Down Your Throat."

y'all are getting me excited about books again. thank you.

Elfman · 12-07-06 07:40:34

cle wrote:

ooooh, also what are some books that you have started reading and just never finished off?

Ulysses - James Joyce
In Search of Lost Time - Proust

Maybe I was too young. I was in my twenties when I attempted to read these but gave up on them. Perhaps I should try again now I'm consiserably older. especialy the Proust.

(Edited half an hour after posting): Originaly wrote "Dubliners" instead of Ulysses. Sorry. I did finish that one. I was having a CRAFT moment.

Elfman.

Last edited by Elfman (12-07-06 08:16:50)

Elfman · 12-07-06 08:24:54

Ok I suppose the next step is to turn the original question on it's head. What "Great Literary Classics" have you read that after finishing you thought "Well, that was a load of bollocks".

(I am refusing to answer because whenever I ask a question like this I always end up looking like I'm the only one ).

Elfman

Last edited by Elfman (12-07-06 08:25:39)

Cate · 12-07-06 09:02:22

I'm currently Reading The House of the Dead by Dostoyefsky. I've also borrowed some plays from my uni Library. A book of Becketts short plays, the complete works of Georg Buchner and a book of absurd plays because I wanted to read Zoo Story.
Recently I did an all nighter with JM Coetzee's disgrace which is fantastic. The daughter has such a disturbed sense of guilt.
I never finished Great Expectations or Jane Austin's Emma.

Siobhan · 12-07-06 12:11:55

Hmm, Elf -- I'd say Ulysses as well there.

Meanwhile, the Proust will reward you heartily if you find someone to read it with -- a guide; is there a community college near you? otherwise it can be like slogging through "To the Lighthouse" and missing every single illumination.

which reminds me, omg, that we've not even mentioned Woolf -- and to me, To the Lighthouse is one of maybe the top 5 novels written in English in the last 100 years. . . .

Cate -- so with you on Coetzee's disgrace.

kronocide · 12-07-06 12:38:26

cle wrote:

ooooh, also what are some books that you have started reading and just never finished off? ive still got great expectations and dracula to finish.... i was studying those in high school, and just never quite got to the end

The two that I wanted to finish but just couldn't were Gravity's Rainbow and Paradise Lost. Love Paradise, but never managed to read it from cover to cover.

As much as I love Hawthorne, Faulkner, Hemingway, etc., I am really a science fiction fan. So here's my list of essential S.F.

Last edited by kronocide (12-07-06 12:38:56)

Siobhan · 12-07-06 13:58:31

OK Krono -- because I'm such a fan of your mind, I'm going to see if I can be won over to the SF side by reading some of your suggestions: I'm going for Slaughterhouse 5 and I Robot; have read and loved other things by Kurt Vonn. and I Asimov (incidentally is Eric Asimov the wine critic I Asimov's son/grandson?)

May I add one to your list (I don't see any women authors)?: Nicola Griffiths Ammonite>

kronocide · 12-07-06 14:09:04

Women have been sadly underrepresented in the geeky world of S.F. There are a few very famous ones such as Ursula Le Guin, although she for some reason never ended up among my favorites. However, there is one woman in the list, and it's also the book I would recommend possibly before any of the others. That's "God's Fires" by Patricia Anthony. It's an extraordinary book in any category.

I'll check out Nicola Griffiths!

Slaughterhouse 5 is as good a choice as any I can think of. I Robot is not bad, but if I had to pick just one more, it would be Way Station by Simak. It's a very unusual S.F. story, and Simak is a great writer.

Last edited by kronocide (12-07-06 14:19:30)

footman2 · 12-07-06 14:37:26

Siobhan wrote:

footman - I'm so glad you put Coming Through Slaughter on your list; I love that book as well. Have you read his others and if so, do you share my thoughts about In the Skin of a Lion?.

I haven't read In the Skin of a Lion - i think it just jumped a few notches up on my "to read" list.

Fans of Atwood - have you read the Penelopiad? Homer's Odyssey through Penelope's perspective.

kronocide · 12-07-06 15:09:37

Siobhan, is there any particular Griffiths book you would recommend, Amazon has quite a list?

EDIT:

Eric Asimov may be a relative, but it's not Isaac's son. He had a son and a daughter, I don't know if they have any children.

Last edited by kronocide (12-07-06 16:28:12)

cle · 12-07-06 15:43:34

No footman, thanks for the reference! I've been reading some of her short stories..... "bluebeard's egg" gave me the chills in a way..... does anyone know of any of Margaret Atwood's poetry?????

Elfman · 12-07-06 16:50:23

kronocide wrote:

cle wrote:
ooooh, also what are some books that you have started reading and just never finished off? ive still got great expectations and dracula to finish.... i was studying those in high school, and just never quite got to the end
The two that I wanted to finish but just couldn't were Gravity's Rainbow and Paradise Lost. Love Paradise, but never managed to read it from cover to cover.
As much as I love Hawthorne, Faulkner, Hemingway, etc., I am really a science fiction fan. So here's my list of essential S.F.

"I Robot" was my favourite book when I was about 12. It really turned me on to reading. I refused to go to see the movie when it was released because I knew it would annoy the crap out of me. (I didn't see the movie version of The Hitch Hikers Guide for pretty much the same reasons. I was a huge fan of the original radio series).

Elfman.

Siobhan · 12-07-06 19:51:20

Elfman wrote:

[ I refused to go to see the movie when it was released because I knew it would annoy the crap out of me. (I didn't see the movie version of The Hitch Hikers Guide for pretty much the same reasons. I was a huge fan of the original radio series).
Elfman.

I know just what you mean -- I also didn't see it because I was such a fan of the radio show. However, I hope that doesn't stop any fans of PHC from seeing Prairie Home Companion; they made sure to make it so different and yet so delightful as to be incomparable with the radio show.

Tat just reinforces my happiness that In the Skin of a Lion was passed over for filming in favour of The English Patient. What do y'all think are some of the best books whose movie versions were travesties? For me, it would have to be Razor's Edge by Somerset Maugham.

On the other hand, great books whose film version was commensurate with its art include The Unbearable Lightness of Being, Doctor Zhivago, The Godfather (parts I and II), Cider House Rules, and Apocalype Now (Heart of Darkness free-form adaptation).

nihpuad · 13-07-06 06:07:15

kronocide wrote:

As much as I love Hawthorne, Faulkner, Hemingway, etc., I am really a science fiction fan.

Me, too.

kronocide wrote:

So here's my list of essential S.F.

What, no Heinlein? Especially since you include The Forever War (a most excellent choice, BTW), you should at least include Starship Troopers, the book Haldeman was either criticizing or paying homage to (or both?), depending on who you ask. Also several of Heinlein's novels (Stranger in a Strange Land, The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress, and practically everything from Time Enough for Love on) would be of interest to this group because they touch on alternative approaches to sexuality and marriage customs (nothing even vaguely pornographic, though, more's the pity).

Clarke must be on the list, of course, but Rama wouldn't be my choice. I'd probably pick Childhood's End instead.

My list would also include Larry Niven (Ringworld, if I had to pick just one, but I like most of the Known Space stuff and his early collaborations with Jerry Pournelle), Spider Robinson (the Callahan's Place stories, Deathkiller, the Stardance books), Orson Scott Card (the original 4 Ender Wiggins books), and John Varley (esp. Steel Beach and The Golden Globe). More recently, I've been reading Allen Steele and John Barnes.

On the broader question, I've been "reading" a lot of books recently in audiobook form. A friend who's a voracious reader but a bit dyslexic turned me on to them, and I'm hooked. In audiobooks, I tend to prefer nonfiction (the fiction readings often turn out to be too much like a bad radio play), preferably unabridged and read by the author. My recent faves are Bill Bryson (A Walk in the Woods, In a Sunburned Country [about Australia!], A Short History of Nearly Everything) and Simon Winchester (Krakatoa, A Crack in the Edge of the Word, The Professor and the Madman). I also like David Sedaris (Me Talk Pretty One Day, Dress Your Family in Corduroy and Denim), but on audiobook his pieces are more like monologues (a la Spaulding Gray) than regular readings.

Finally, I seem to have a bizarre fascination for reading/listening to books about mountain climbing, even though I'm not a climber myself and have no interest in becoming one. Check out Jon Krakauer's work (esp. Into Thin Air, about the 1996 disaster on Everest) and High Exposure by climbing cinematographer David Brashears (he shot the IMAX film Everest).

Oh, almost forgot: I lurrrv Al Franken's political books (on audio, of course: Franken's reading is the best part)... but they may not mean much to non-Yanks (unless you've been paying real close attention to our lamentable politics).

Last edited by dauphinb2 (13-07-06 06:09:28)

nihpuad · 13-07-06 06:12:06

Siobhan wrote:

On the other hand, great books whose film version was commensurate with its art include ... Cider House Rules....

Ditto The World According to Garp, also by Irving.

aven frey · 13-07-06 06:33:03

Okay so the Max literary awards would go something like this.
Best short story - Kafka's Penal Colony
Best insect/art/culture contemporary theory chick ever - Marina Warner
Author who has the best taste in insects - Nobokov
Best insect/incest book - Angels and Insects, As Byatt
I can't read their work but I do read all about their work - Derrida, Lacan, Bahktin, De Sade
Weird dark guy with interesting weird dark ideas - Battaille
One day I'll read some - Kristeva
I havn't yet finished: anything by Proust, Dr Jeklle and Mr Hyde (I plan do plan to one of these days), Nuromancer (I lost the book), like Cle Dracula.

catt · 13-07-06 06:38:22

max wrote:

Okay so the Max literary awards would go something like this.
Best short story - Kafka's Penal Colony
Best insect/art/culture contemporary theory chick ever - Marina Warner
Author who has the best taste in insects - Nobokov
Best insect/incest book - Angels and Insects, As Byatt
I can't read their work but I do read all about their work - Derrida, Lacan, Bahktin, De Sade
Weird dark guy with interesting weird dark ideas - Battaille
One day I'll read some - Kristeva
I havn't yet finished: anything by Proust, Dr Jeklle and Mr Hyde (I plan do plan to one of these days), Nuromancer (I lost the book), like Cle Dracula.

I need to get you a copy of Iain Banks' The Wasp Factory, max.

xxCattxx

kronocide · 13-07-06 21:43:41

Dauphin, my original plan was to inlcude ten books, you can imagine how much I had to throw out to keep it at 17. :-) As for Heinlein, he's not in the list for the simple reason that I can't stand the man. Yes, he was a social liberal, hence all the nekkid chicks running around the protagonist (Stranger in a Strange Land in my opinion reads like an episode of Charlie's Angels at times) but he was more importantly a libertarian and an Ayn Rand fan. Ouch! Well, not Kronocide-kompatible at any rate. I did love his books for kids (Have Space Suite... Space Cadet) when I was around 12-13 though.

Catt,

I really like Banks's non-science fiction as well, although I think I'd pick The Crow Road as my favorite. Of course it doesn't have the gender-related themes or the weirdness.

Siobhan · 13-07-06 23:20:51

Ayn Rand pulled a lot of us into her web, for a while. I spent all of my 14th Thanksgiving holiday wrapped in a blanket by the fire, reading page after page of The Fountainhead like each was manna from Heaven. It was one of the ost memorable reading experiences of my life -- everyone in my extended family coming in from snowmobiling, dressing deer, making sweet potato pie, and I would only get up to pee and make tea. Nothing else existed except for Howard Roark.

segue: this should go in another thread but the movie the Passion of Ayn Rand starring Helen Mirron and Eric Stoltz is THE most sexually intoxicating movie I've ever seen with a woman over 50. She burned the celluloid. Those of you who are hankering to see alluring older women in the throes of ecstacy, look no further!

I

kronocide · 13-07-06 23:42:05

No offence to Rand fans intended (well, not a lot ):

Siobhan wrote:

Those of you who are hankering to see alluring older women in the throes of ecstacy, look no further!

That sounds like a good reason to check it out.

nihpuad · 14-07-06 06:57:21

kronocide wrote:

Dauphin, my original plan was to inlcude ten books, you can imagine how much I had to throw out to keep it at 17. :-)

Yeah, well there is that problem, isn't there?

kronocide wrote:

As for Heinlein, he's not in the list for the simple reason that I can't stand the man.

De gustibus non disputandum est, eh? Still, love him or hate him, I think no list of SF "great works" is complete without him, because of his influence on the field.

kronocide wrote:

...all the nekkid chicks running around the protagonist (Stranger in a Strange Land in my opinion reads like an episode of Charlie's Angels at times) ....

I first read Stranger in junior high school (age ~12 or 13; I don't know what those years would be called in other countries' terminology), and I remembered it as a bit childishly titillating... but of course, I was going through puberty, and was in a mood to be childishly titillated. Recently, though, I re-read it for the first time in years (because my 15-year-old daughter was reading it for school), and found it much worthier, more serious work. Yes, there's lots of sex and nudity, but from my current perspective, it all strikes me as organic to the themes Heinlein was trying to examine. YMMV, of course.

OTOH, the man did indisputably hit some sexual clinkers: I Will Fear No Evil -- in which the protagonist is a dirty old (and vastly rich) man whose life is saved by tranplantation of his brain into the body of his gorgeous young secretary (who is conveniently killed by a robber just when her boss needs a body), and who then decides the only way to properly thank anyone for pretty much any kindness is to jump into the sack with them -- is a BAAAAAD book! And there's an incest theme running through his later books that even some fans find... umm... challenging. Still in all, though, I personally find the masterpieces outnumber the clinkers by a wide margin.

kronocide wrote:

Yes, he was a social liberal, ... but he was more importantly a libertarian and an Ayn Rand fan. Ouch! Well, not Kronocide-kompatible at any rate.

He was a political liberal as well... a socialist of sorts, in fact... early in his adult life. As for his libertarianism, I think it's more that some libertarians sort of adopted him as a patron saint, based largely on The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress and to a lesser extent on Farnhams Freehold. To be sure, some of his ideas were libertarian/right wing, but I think a lot of that had to do with WWII-era nationalism/patriotism. He also had a core of progressive beliefs, though, which he held to right up to his death. Personally, I think the reality is that he used his fiction as a kind of thought laboratory to examine all sorts of political forms, just as he experimented with sexual mores and marriage customs.

Over the 4th of July weekend I took a long car trip and listened to the audiobook of Double Star (breaking my personal rule about not listening to ficton audiobooks!), in which the action centers on the politics of a UK-style constitutional monarchy/parliamentary government that governs the Solar System. In that book, the hero equates to a liberal/progressive party leader in current terms, and his (vicious, corrupt, criminal) opponents espouse values that we would consider right-wing by current standards. Go figure, eh?

Cate · 16-07-06 09:26:42

I'm now reading Will to Knowledge by Foucault, the first book in his history of sexuality. Thanks to Max for lending it to me yesterday.

bobsully · 16-07-06 13:08:30

Cate wrote:

I'm now reading Will to Knowledge by Foucault

I looked, but I am having a hard time finding this book. Is that the exact title? Thanks

Cate · 18-07-06 14:09:44

It's been published under varying titles here's a link to it on Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/067972 … e&n=283155

#26 12-07-06 03:43:27

Re: So let's rant about books

#27 12-07-06 04:56:31

Re: So let's rant about books

#28 12-07-06 07:40:34

Re: So let's rant about books

#29 12-07-06 08:24:54

Re: So let's rant about books

#30 12-07-06 09:02:22

Re: So let's rant about books

#31 12-07-06 12:11:55

Re: So let's rant about books

#32 12-07-06 12:38:26

Re: So let's rant about books

#33 12-07-06 13:58:31

Re: So let's rant about books

#34 12-07-06 14:09:04

Re: So let's rant about books

#35 12-07-06 14:37:26

Re: So let's rant about books

#36 12-07-06 15:09:37

Re: So let's rant about books

#37 12-07-06 15:43:34

Re: So let's rant about books

#38 12-07-06 16:50:23

Re: So let's rant about books

#39 12-07-06 19:51:20

Re: So let's rant about books

#40 13-07-06 06:07:15

Re: So let's rant about books

#41 13-07-06 06:12:06

Re: So let's rant about books

#42 13-07-06 06:33:03

Re: So let's rant about books

#43 13-07-06 06:38:22

Re: So let's rant about books

#44 13-07-06 21:43:41

Re: So let's rant about books

#45 13-07-06 23:20:51

Re: So let's rant about books

#46 13-07-06 23:42:05

Re: So let's rant about books

#47 14-07-06 06:57:21

Re: So let's rant about books

#48 16-07-06 09:26:42

Re: So let's rant about books

#49 16-07-06 13:08:30

Re: So let's rant about books

#50 18-07-06 14:09:44

Re: So let's rant about books

Board footer