#26 15-06-06 23:41:05

Elfman

Member

From: Yorkshire

Registered: 17-03-06

Posts: 700

Re: The conventions of porn filmmaking - moved topic.

Not to rain on anyone's paradade, but Ivanafukalot I actualyl lump in with the sites that go too hard for the Lolita image. There's obviously nothing wrong with ther looks, but I have a very strong aversion towards imagery that is intentionally, and in a fashion I perceive as lacking of taste plays on that aspect of our sexuality. But, aren't I a bit too young (23) to feel like a dirty old man already?

You know I don't see her as Lolitaesque at all Nowaysis and I am very concious of being a dirty old man.  Isn't she too old for that?  She must be at least as old as you surely.

Nowaysis

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From: Sweden

Registered: 22-03-06

Posts: 497

Re: The conventions of porn filmmaking - moved topic.

That is most likely (and probably goes for most anyone marketed as a "teen" these days I'd wager), but there's just something in the back of my head that kicks in sometimes. It's nowhere near consistent though. If you'll recall the BA-submission that sparked the paedophile debate (#494 was it?), I actually really enjoyed that one very much for exactly those reasons that put me off Ivanafukalot. The mind's a tricky thing, to say something conclusive on the subject.

Edit: And speaking of inconsistency, one of the sites I first "discovered" on the internet, MET Art, has based its entire reputation and success on shooting women with deceptively young looks (when I first started enjoying that, I was on the other hand about as young myself as the models were made to look). So it probably has more to do with the particular site than the apparent or projected age of its models.

Last edited by Nowaysis (15-06-06 23:50:29)

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Let us scatter our clothes to the wind

Elfman

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From: Yorkshire

Registered: 17-03-06

Posts: 700

Re: The conventions of porn filmmaking - moved topic.

If you'll recall the BA-submission that sparked the paedophile debate (#494 was it?)

You had to remind me of that didn't you . 

And speaking of inconsistency, one of the sites I first "discovered" on the internet, MET Art, has based its entire reputation and success on shooting women with deceptively young looks (when I first started enjoying that, I was on the other hand about as young myself as the models were made to look). So it probably has more to do with the particular site than the apparent or projected age of its models.

Yes I think I understand what you mean and I agree with you.  It's about the "sleaze factor" (for want of a better way of putting it) isn't it.?  Appreciation of the young female form as a thing of beauty and vitality is acceptable but drooling over it as an object for our baser carnal lusts isn't .

Nowaysis

Member

From: Sweden

Registered: 22-03-06

Posts: 497

Re: The conventions of porn filmmaking - moved topic.

That would probably be it - the sleaze factor. It reminds one that a hypothetical sexual relationship with the model would not be an equal relationship, provided she is as young and/or innocent as she is portrayed to be, thus provoking a sense of guilt in the pleasure one is taking from her physical attractiveness.

Eidt: Sorry if I stirred any bad memories, but it was the first concrete example I could think of.

Last edited by Nowaysis (16-06-06 00:24:03)

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nihpuad

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Registered: 24-04-06

Posts: 696

Re: The conventions of porn filmmaking - moved topic.

If you'll recall the BA-submission that sparked the paedophile debate (#494 was it?)

You had to remind me of that didn't you .

Maybe I'll regret jumping into this discussion... but then again, I don't think any of you is going to mistake me for Ruby/Nona, and in any case, the chief antagonist on this issue is no longer present, right?

First, let me say that I think child pornography is deeply evil and despicable, and nothing else I say should be taken as meaning anything else.

Now... note that being turned on by a sexually mature (i.e., postpubescent) but legally underage young woman is not paedophilia (or as we like to call it here in the Land of Efficient Spelling, pedophilia ). True pedophiles are only interested in children, not people who are physically (even though not legally) adult. There is a recognized pathology (I forget its name; I learned about it from watching Law & Order: Special Victims Unit, which, for those of you who don't see American TV, is a cop show about a unit that investigates sex crimes) that involves sexual compulsion for young teens, but I'm not sure being "normally" turned on by (for instance) the image of a pretty 16-year old girl even qualifies as that: After all, a 16 year old is just a somewhat less wrinkled version of what most of us are naturally turned on by anyway.

Appreciation of the young female form as a thing of beauty and vitality is acceptable but drooling over it as an object for our baser carnal lusts isn't .

If you make this distinction between "appreciation" and "baser carnal lusts" for women who appear to be 16 years old, why not for 32 year olds?

The thing is, explicit sexual images of minors are evil and despicable not because of how they might make you feel, but because of what they are... and what they are is documentary evidence of actual sexual abuse of said minor, which is both a crime and a grave moral evil. Using that evidence for your own pleasure would make you morally complicit in that crime, and so is unacceptable (not to mention illegal).

OTOH, sexually explicit images of women who are not minors -- and who are therefore presumably (i.e., legally) competent to make their own decisions about their sexuality -- are, as far as I can see, morally equivalent to any other sexually explicit images of adult women. It's no less acceptable (IMHO) to drool over such images than it is to drool over (as we all no doubt do) images of Liandra or Max.

I absolutely understand the desire... the need... to scrupulously avoid looking at actual child pornography, even unintentionally. But I implicitly trust the folks here not to ever offer us any child pornography, and so I don't see any real reason to feel creepy about getting turned on by the images they do offer us, no matter how young the adult participants appear to be.

Now I'm going to go put on my Nomex longjohns and wait for the flaming.

UPDATE: After re-reading this, I think I need to clarify something. In suggesting that it was potentially "normal" to be turned on by the image of a 16 year old, I did NOT in any way mean to be endorsing sexual activity between adults and minors. There's a huge distinction between what you feel and what you do. Feelings, in general, are ethically neutral unless you act on them; actions have moral and ethical consequences... in this case, potentially dire ones.

Last edited by dauphinb2 (16-06-06 08:39:45)

Nowaysis

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From: Sweden

Registered: 22-03-06

Posts: 497

Re: The conventions of porn filmmaking - moved topic.

Luckily, I live in the land of polar bears in the streets, so sex with a 16-year old is no problem (no porn acting till you're 18 though).

All jokes aside, I think the pathology you're looking for is ephebophilia, and I know paedophilia doesn't actually describe our attraction to young postpubescent women, it was however what some people wanted to make said debate be about.

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Elfman

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From: Yorkshire

Registered: 17-03-06

Posts: 700

Re: The conventions of porn filmmaking - moved topic.

dauphinb2

I don't think there is much danger of you getting a roasting for your post above.  Nor do I feel that you need to have worried about anyone misunderstanding you and thinking you were advocating or condoning sex with minors.  It is clear that you weren't.

I don't think I have anything to add to this.  I agree entirely with everything you said. There is little I could say that wouldn't be merely paraphrasing you.  Let me just explain what I meant when I said "Appreciation of the young female form as a thing of beauty and vitality is acceptable but drooling over it as an object for our baser carnal lusts isn't". I was refering to the socialy induced guilt factor associated with any feelings which could even remotley be interpreted as paedophilic.   I think all of the older members will attest to the fact that this gets worse as we get older. (You must remember that I am old enough to be the father of most of the contributors to this site).  It is the "dirty old man" syndrome.  We all feel uncomfortable about it even though we interlectualy know that being attracted to young, post pubescent girls is perfectly normal.  As I said on the infamous thread at BA nature wants us to begin reproducing as early as possible and so has designed us to be sexualy attracted to girls as soon as they acheive the physical sexual maturity to have babies.  We can't help the way we are programmed.  We can only be responsible for our actions.

Elfman.

Warmtouch

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From: Southern England

Registered: 29-03-06

Posts: 326

Re: The conventions of porn filmmaking - moved topic.

I have very fond memories of the girlfriend I had when I was 15. I enjoyed shagging her then and I still want to shag her now... although I suspect that if I could bring her forward in time with a time machine, I probably wouldn't feel that way once I met her in the flesh. Sex with 15-year-olds is probably best experienced by OTHER 15-year-olds. And of course she [then] wouldn't touch ME [now] with the business end of a punting pole.

But I feel no guilt that my memories of that girl still inspire lust to this day.

msnevil

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Registered: 18-03-06

Posts: 330

Re: The conventions of porn filmmaking - moved topic.

I'm  skipping the under 18 debate. (Though Domai used to be like MET. And have below 18 year "nude" pictures. About five years ago.)

I have belonged to Domai for about 6-7 years, Mr skin 3 years, Coccozella 3 years,  and this site. Since it started. (Well OCC for about a year as well.

To be honest, I tend to like woman within 10 years of my age. And anything younger then that. Reminds me of my daughter's. And that's a big "yuck". In my book.

Elfman

Member

From: Yorkshire

Registered: 17-03-06

Posts: 700

Re: The conventions of porn filmmaking - moved topic.

To be honest, I tend to like woman within 10 years of my age. And anything younger then that. Reminds me of my daughter's. And that's a big "yuck". In my book.

This is what I was saying.  We older men can't escape it can we?  There is a young girl recently started work in my building.  17 and looks younger.  Slim, Blonde and to make matters worse she always wears a short skirt and a crisp, white cotton shirt (major league turn-ons for me).  My droole factor is off the scale and so is my "dirty old man" guilt level.

Why? She is over the age of sexual consent in my country so why should I feel so guilty?  It isn't logical I know but I can't help it and I would be frankly amazed if any male subscriber to this site over the age of 45 doesn't experience the same feelings from time to time.

Elfman.

Last edited by Elfman (17-06-06 12:10:24)

Warmtouch

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From: Southern England

Registered: 29-03-06

Posts: 326

Re: The conventions of porn filmmaking - moved topic.

To be honest, I tend to like woman within 10 years of my age. And anything younger then that. Reminds me of my daughter's. And that's a big "yuck". In my book.

This is what I was saying.  We older men can't escape it can we?  There is a young girl recently started work in my building.  17 and looks younger.  Slim, Blonde and to make matters worse she always wears a short skirt and a crisp, white cotton shirt (major league turn-ons for me).  My droole factor is off the scale and so is my "dirty old man" guilt level.

You are completely entitled to your feelings. Enjoy them. You're even entitled to have a wank about her when you're in the privacy of your own home. Just don't make your feelings obvious when she's around.

I am perfecting a slightly dim, glassy-eyed, vacant look which is good for ogling with, because then anybody who sees you assumes you're a moron, not an ogler.

(I agree completely about crisp white cotton shirts.)

Elfman

Member

From: Yorkshire

Registered: 17-03-06

Posts: 700

Re: The conventions of porn filmmaking - moved topic.

To be honest, I tend to like woman within 10 years of my age. And anything younger then that. Reminds me of my daughter's. And that's a big "yuck". In my book.

This is what I was saying.  We older men can't escape it can we?  There is a young girl recently started work in my building.  17 and looks younger.  Slim, Blonde and to make matters worse she always wears a short skirt and a crisp, white cotton shirt (major league turn-ons for me).  My droole factor is off the scale and so is my "dirty old man" guilt level.

You are completely entitled to your feelings. Enjoy them. You're even entitled to have a wank about her when you're in the privacy of your own home. Just don't make your feelings obvious when she's around.

I am perfecting a slightly dim, glassy-eyed, vacant look which is good for ogling with, because then anybody who sees you assumes you're a moron, not an ogler.

(I agree completely about crisp white cotton shirts.)

Don't make my feelings obvious?  I flirt outageously with her and she flirts back.  That is the other side of the age coin.  The good one.  The young girls see you as "safe" so you can flirt as much as you like and they never take offence

nihpuad

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Registered: 24-04-06

Posts: 696

Re: The conventions of porn filmmaking - moved topic.

Elfman, thanks for the kind words of agreement and reassurance.

I was refering to the socialy induced guilt factor associated with any feelings which could even remotley be interpreted as paedophilic.   I think all of the older members will attest to the fact that this gets worse as we get older. (You must remember that I am old enough to be the father of most of the contributors to this site).  It is the "dirty old man" syndrome.

I guess at 46 I'm not quite old enough to feel quite that dirty about feeling dirty! (BTW, are you really old enough to be my father? I never would've guessed it from the way you write.)

Frankly, I hope I never get old enough to feel guilty about my own sexual feelings... esp. those (e.g., ones about young-looking adults) that would be perfectly legal and morally acceptable even if I acted on them. I know these sorts of feelings/reactions are never entirely voluntary, but I encourage you to find some way to give yourself permission to enjoy all your feelings; you already know they're perfectly appropriate, in evolutionary terms:

...nature wants us to begin reproducing as early as possible and so has designed us to be sexualy attracted to girls as soon as they acheive the physical sexual maturity to have babies.  We can't help the way we are programmed.  We can only be responsible for our actions.

I have in my collection a great modern folk song called "Feel Your Feelings," in which the singer asserts that your not responsible for your feelings, only for your actions. (He imagines all sorts of horrible things happening to an ex he's mad at, arguing that it's OK to feel that way, as long as he doesn't act.) The chorus ends, "they can't lock you up for what you're feeling, so feel your feelings all the way!" That's what I wish for you.

OTOH...

Sex with 15-year-olds is probably best experienced by OTHER 15-year-olds.

Probably so. Except if you live in Kansas, where the law effectively criminalizes all sexual activity by teenagers, even if it's with other teens.   My understanding is that the law is written so broadly that your hypothetical 15-year-old couple could be prosecuted for just making out, never mind having sex.

Actually, the Kansas Attorney General has no interest in prosecuting teens for "the thing that makes me glad on Lover's Lane"; he's just doing a legal end-run around court decisions supporting abortion and brith control rights. It works like this: Certain people, including teachers, school nurses, and doctors, are required by law to report anything that makes them suspect sexual abuse of a minor. If, then, all teen sexuality is illegal, the theory goes that all abortion appointments, requests for information about abortion, requests for birth control or information about same... all of that stuff becomes mandatorily reportable -- and hence a matter of public reference -- because it's evidence of a crime. This b@st@rd is trying to deny teens access to abortion and birth control by stripping them of any pretense of confidentiality. Luckily, the first court test of this scheme went against him, but AFAIK the underlying law still stands.

I'm sorry if I sometimes overreact to prudishness on these forums, but my country (which I love despite its flaws, BTW) is in the middle of learning (amid many other sad and tragic lessons) how easily prudishness can turn into repression and tyranny. I urge you all to resist the bluenoses at every turn.

Last edited by dauphinb2 (17-06-06 23:37:41)

Elfman

Member

From: Yorkshire

Registered: 17-03-06

Posts: 700

Re: The conventions of porn filmmaking - moved topic.

I guess at 46 I'm not quite old enough to feel quite that dirty about feeling dirty! (BTW, are you really old enough to be my father? I never would've guessed it from the way you write.)

When I said "contributors" I was refering to the lovely ladies who happily wank themselves senseless for our enjoyment, not the subscribers to the the site.  Actualy at 46 you're not much younger than me.

The guilt thing isn't really a problem dauphin2.  I recognise it for what it is and find it funny and ridiculous really (but then I find most things about myself funny and ridiculous).

Elfman.

Warmtouch

Member

From: Southern England

Registered: 29-03-06

Posts: 326

Re: The conventions of porn filmmaking - moved topic.

Don't make my feelings obvious?  I flirt outageously with her and she flirts back.  That is the other side of the age coin.  The good one.  The young girls see you as "safe" so you can flirt as much as you like and they never take offence

Ah, now this I find quite surprising. You would be reluctant to avail yourself of the services of a lady of the evening (there's another of those lovely euphemisms) because you're afraid you would be treated with contempt, yet you'll flirt (harmlessly) with a 17-year-old?

I wouldn't DREAM of trying to flirt with a 17-year-old. I have most of the physical failings of middle-aged men. I would expect anyone I tried it with to be brutally contemptuous if not openly hostile. Whereas a lady of the evening is being paid -- handsomely, when I can scrape up the dosh, which is seldom -- to treat me with grace, courtesy and consideration. It's part of the job.

Frankly, I was never any good at flirting anyway. To my ear it just comes off as "wanna shag, babe?" and I already know the answer.

Siobhan

Member

Registered: 15-06-06

Posts: 823

Re: The conventions of porn filmmaking - moved topic.

(I agree completely about crisp white cotton shirts.)

oh god. ohhhhh god.

me too.

-------------------------

And I would completely and guiltlessly join Elf and Max in a subscription to Ivanafukalot.com; the young woman in the jpg is gorgeous and looks really smart and doesn't seem any older to me than Max does (funny how we can see ages differently).

Let's say, for the purposes of discussion, that Miss Ivana IS a mere sixteen.

I was first making love at 16. So, for me, although I could no longer in good conscience  *flirt* with a sixteen-year-old (they do get crushes, and confused) it's the 16-year-old who still lives inside of me, who relishes memories of my european history teacher -- whom all the boys revered and all the girls craved -- and the things he did to my body.

More to the point, I still have dreams of my best friend then, how fucking brilliant she was and how hottttt, she'd be doing physics homework on the school bus home from a tennis tourney, all red-cheeked and tan,  physics like it was simple addition, whilst simultaneously getting a footrub from someone on the boys' team and getting her hair braided by one of the cheerleaders.  We would come home from matches and climb in the shower together and get all the kinks out, until the hot water was spent.

I've never been more sexual than I was in school. Desire was redolent. So, even though I've not seen an unlined face in real life that I'd want to kiss, in my mind I can still be that 16-year-old, wooing Thisbe Janucek.

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Of COURSE one has to be sensitive. From this juncture, quite frankly, I don't think that my (then 23-year old) teacher was truly acting from integrity when he allowed himself to get all obsessed over me. But at the same time, I think it would have been understandable for him to want me from a respectful distance.

Maybe the real issue (since I'm guessing we're none of us pederists here) is what wanting a 16-year old does to US! Nowaysis at 23 is feeling like a dirty old man reminds me . . . .:

I learned recently that Eliot was only TWENTY-SIX when he wrote Prufrock.

"I grow old, I grow old, I shall wear my trousers rolled."

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Under all speech that is good for any-thing there lies a silence that is better.  Silence is as deep as Eternity;  speech is as shallow as Time.--Thomas Carlysle

blissed

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From: The bus station of the future

Registered: 17-03-06

Posts: 5,622

Re: The conventions of porn filmmaking - moved topic.

Don't make my feelings obvious?  I flirt outageously with her and she flirts back.  That is the other side of the age coin.  The good one.  The young girls see you as "safe" so you can flirt as much as you like and they never take offence

Ah, now this I find quite surprising. You would be reluctant to avail yourself of the services of a lady of the evening (there's another of those lovely euphemisms) because you're afraid you would be treated with contempt, yet you'll flirt (harmlessly) with a 17-year-old?

I think theres different types of flirting and at work there is a sort of sexual chemistry.
The girl doesn't feel sexually intimidated by Elf, so she feels safe to flirt and enjoy the fact that someone enjoys her beauty. Because at work people are forced into close working relationships, I've seen that situation at work develop into an actual sexual relationship too. I think Elf, that you could be lucky enough to meet someone you were hot for, who appreciates you, grows to like you and then "Bobs your uncle"

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Burlesque

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From: Sweden

Registered: 04-05-06

Posts: 1,368

Re: The conventions of porn filmmaking - moved topic.

I am Swedish. I know I tend to return to that fact a lot, but it does have an effect on my libido: like virtually every guy I've talked to about this, or heard talk about it, I look at women, many of whom are a great deal younger than I, and am scared to death that someone might see me do it. In Sweden a mere glance at a young woman can get you marked as a contemptible kiddy-fiddler. I don't particularly go for younger women (I have no marked preference when it comes to age), but there is no denying that there is a particular lustre and shapeliness in a young girl which is almost impoosible not to be attracted to on some level. I'm not talking about ogling, and absolutely not about following through on any sexual impulse - just an appreciative glance. And that, in the current Swedish sexual-political climate is hysterically regarded as a perverted crime against nature.

And I too felt like a dirty old man when I was Nowaysis' age. There is something rotten in the state of Sweden that produces that kind of irrational guilt at such an early age.

Burlesque.

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bodyhead

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From: Boudicca country, UK

Registered: 03-06-06

Posts: 211

Re: The conventions of porn filmmaking - moved topic.

One vivid example for me is if I happen to be out on a Friday or Saturday night and there are groups of mid to late teenaged girls going to nightclubs and parties wearing OUTRAGEOUSLY little. My reasoning is that they want to be seen and admired, though not stared at or ogled.
If I see a girl like that alone I don't look, because she's alone, and because the great power of these girls is in their group.
That power is incredible and it changes the situation greatly - to put men in a situation where they don't know where to look.
They're going to places where there are boys their own age or a bit older - and as long as they're in a gang I suppose they still have the power.
But then they get drunk on cheap cocktails. Then I would look away again if I was still on the street by that time.

I don't know. I'm 44 and I don't feel bad about looking at half-naked girls in that situation.

Elfman

Member

From: Yorkshire

Registered: 17-03-06

Posts: 700

Re: The conventions of porn filmmaking - moved topic.

Don't make my feelings obvious?  I flirt outageously with her and she flirts back.  That is the other side of the age coin.  The good one.  The young girls see you as "safe" so you can flirt as much as you like and they never take offence

Ah, now this I find quite surprising. You would be reluctant to avail yourself of the services of a lady of the evening (there's another of those lovely euphemisms) because you're afraid you would be treated with contempt, yet you'll flirt (harmlessly) with a 17-year-old?

I think theres different types of flirting and at work there is a sort of sexual chemistry.
The girl doesn't feel sexually intimidated by Elf, so she feels safe to flirt and enjoy the fact that someone enjoys her beauty.

This is it precisley.  I'm safe.  I am by nature a gentle, open, affectionate and rather ecentric guy.  Also it seems that I have a certain charm.  For some reason I can't fathom everyone seems to like me.  Young girls can spot imediatley that I am not trying to hit on them and most young girls like to flirt (and be flirted with) just so long as it doesn't become sleazy or overtly sexual.  There are rules to this game that you must never break.  The work place is a small, closed community.  Women coming into that community soon see and hear that I have a close, demonstrably affectionate relationship with several female colleagues so quickly realise that I am no threat and become comfortable with me.  It is a very good policy to adopt if you enjoy the company of women.

Elfman.

Last edited by Elfman (18-06-06 12:30:10)

greycat

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Registered: 04-06-06

Posts: 94

Re: The conventions of porn filmmaking - moved topic.

Igot seriously into discussing this here: http://forums.abbywinters.com/vbulletin … #post90011
and I still think that for me, that says it well: short summary - it is entirely normal to still feel erotically attracted at any age, it is the acting out by approaching the (often much) younger focus of the attraction with sexual activity in mind that is what breaks the implied social contract and is condemned. although once in a while it works for the individuals, it is always condemned by society.

and looking back up the thread r.e. other porn sites, I subscribe to AW, and a site that is aslo related, I think, called Girls Out West. it is a GMBILL site, is mostly but not entirely g/g, has a rougher 'edge' than AW, has a fair number of the same models as here and some at AW mostly under other names ( a few the same). also a french site, Explicite, that is hard core (includes a few activities not that often seen outside specific fetish sites)but in a straightforward not-too-sleazy manner with excellent photography-mostly uses euro porn actors, some claimed newcomers, not push to the edge of too young. but may drop it-it is quite formulaic in work..  Have dropped New Nude City-has a lot of very nice still pics, solely one-person and rarely explicit, videos are a waste.  also dropped Older Women, had some older amateurs who were very attractive but on the whole were pornactresses who I suppose no longer work much elsewhere - some attractive and even fun (Tina Tyler, for example, still like her) but mostly very poor vids, the site was junk and I never renewed.

Last edited by greycat (18-06-06 18:09:27)

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Bishop of Bath & Wells

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From: United Kingdom

Registered: 17-03-06

Posts: 342

Re: The conventions of porn filmmaking - moved topic.

(Tina Tyler, for example, still like her)

Wow Tina Tyler, I remember her! She was just about the only female porn star who seemed to have genuine onscreen orgasms, either that or she was an extremely good actress. I guess Chloe Nicole deserves a mention, too.

Depressing to see that Tina is being featured on a site called 'Older Women', this makes me feel very old!

Bish

Last edited by Bishop of Bath & Wells (18-06-06 19:11:36)

HiFlyer601

Member

From: Miami, Florida, USA

Registered: 06-06-06

Posts: 20

Re: The conventions of porn filmmaking - moved topic.

My server has not done much to censor the newsgroups, so I can lurk around and perhaps find 100 groups of the 30,000 that sometimes post excellent stuff.  The "stuff" is from pay sites and is posted by individuals.  There is a wide variety of subjects as you can imagine.

Since my preferencs seem to shift periodically, I drop and add newsgroups to match my current preferences.

You need a good "Reader" like Agent so you can scan thousands of files and select only those you wish to download.

The newsgroups provide a sort of buffer between the original web site and me.  I can enjoy the porn as a "newspaper reader" and not have "cookies' chasing me or spam email being generated.

HF

greycat

Member

Registered: 04-06-06

Posts: 94

Re: The conventions of porn filmmaking - moved topic.

Bishop, she still looks great, and I dont think she is much past 40, that site basically considered over 30 older.  She was not using the name Tina Tyler, only Tina, perhaps so web searches would not find the site, but she had probably the best spirit on there, and only doing solo. which there was a good choice. I looked up her own site, she is directing some.  I actually respect her as an actress with a fine sense of humor, and a hard worker, never mind being very passionate.  A few years ago one of Nina Hartley's 'educational' dvd's was titled 'making love to women' or thereabouts.  Nina Hartley and Tina has a long scene making love together as themselves, not pretending, that was actually qute nice.

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nihpuad

Member

Registered: 24-04-06

Posts: 696

Re: The conventions of porn filmmaking - moved topic.

(Tina Tyler, for example, still like her)

Wow Tina Tyler, I remember her! She was just about the only female porn star who seemed to have genuine onscreen orgasms, either that or she was an extremely good actress.

Wow, a blast from the past! Not long after IFM opened up shop (which is to say, several months after I discovered BA), I cleaned out my (small) collection of mainstream porn, and the only item I kept was my DVD copy of Video Virgins #1... which features Tina Tyler on the box art, and in one of the hottest porn scenes I've ever seen. The Video Virgins series featured women's "first time on camera" (except that many of them were really experienced porn actresses, and if it was a "first time" at all, it meant the first time they'd done some specific act). The format involved an on-camera interview about sex and first times/first orgasms (think BA "Confessions" or IFM "Lucubrations") followed by a masturbation scene and then a traditional porn scene (Ron Jeremy's in one of them, so you know it's real porn! ). The interviews were mostly fast-forward material (not as... ahem... penetrating as what we get here), but most of the masturbation scenes and at least some of the follow-ups seemed to include genuine orgasms.

Tina's scene doesn't strictly follow the format, in that there's no solo bit, but she starts out with her actual husband (a porn star whose name I forget... Tedeschi, perhaps?) on the stairs and then moves on to an upstairs bedroom where a second guy is waiting for them (two guys at once is the alleged "first" that makes her a "video virgin"). During the course of the scene she has at least three incredible orgasms that I'm still convinced -- even after calibrating my orgasmometer with hundreds of data points from BA and IFM -- were absolutely genuine.

Bish, if you're a Tina fan, you may well have already seen the piece I'm talking about; if not, it's worth seeking out. The later entries in the series went downhill, and there's even some dreck on #1, but for Tina's scene and a couple of the other bits, it's worth the cost of admission.