Filming environment and true orgasm

guifersix · 11-05-09 16:08:03

I'm new on this site which I judge one of the best in its kind, mainly because I'm rather annoyed with the faked orgasms I see on the majority of amateur movies. I have a question that certainly has been asked many times in the past: there are many movies in IFM that undoubtedly need a troupe to film scenes of such quality and the acting girls certainly know it. How can they reach a real orgasm in front of other people? Since IFM states that all orgasm are real how can this happen? We all know that it is so easy for a woman to fake an orgasm! Is IFM's philosophy such a magnet for participating girls to make all of them true orgasmers?

nihpuad · 11-05-09 18:50:46

guifersix wrote:

...there are many movies in IFM that undoubtedly need a troupe to film scenes of such quality and the acting girls certainly know it. How can they reach a real orgasm in front of other people? Since IFM states that all orgasm are real how can this happen?

Many contributors and IFM personnel participate in the Forum, so I'm sure you'll get more authoritative answers than mine, but...

AFAIK, IFM scenes are all shot with as minimally intrusive crews as possible. Some films (studio shoots, for instance, and Home Made contributions) are shot with fixed cameras and, I believe, nobody in the room except for the contributor(s). Some other films (location shoots and studio shoots with moving camera perspective) obviously require a camera operator on set... but remember that those camera operators are people the contributors know and trust (often, I believe, fellow contributors). Finally, based on long-term membership at Beautiful Agony and charter membership here at IFM, I absolutely trust Richard's commitment to only publish genuine orgasms: If IFM did capture on film (well... the digital equivalent of film) anything whose authenticity they couldn't vouch for, I'm quite sure they wouldn't put that film on the site.

But here's another question: Why do you assume that an audience -- either a real audience in the room or the larger virtual audience implicit in the presence of a camera -- would be a barrier to orgasm? The world is full of people who are actively turned on by being watched... and those of us who are turned on by watching thank goodness it is so.

Cate · 12-05-09 00:41:31

I'm also wondering at your assumptions, mainly that fake orgasms are the default for women, seeing as real orgasms are you know a whole lot more fun. I think the shoots work to capture real orgasms because as a contributor you are aware that you're there for your own pleasure not the audiences.

ngaio · 12-05-09 04:20:53

nihpuad wrote:

AFAIK, IFM scenes are all shot with as minimally intrusive crews as possible. Some films (studio shoots, for instance, and Home Made contributions) are shot with fixed cameras and, I believe, nobody in the room except for the contributor(s).

Yeah, you'll noticed no camera panning in most of the films (except some special instances, closeups, all that!) and that is because the cameras are just sitting in a fixed position with nobody there to move it so there really is a certain sort of privacy and intimacy to the films which I really love. Sometimes, I am sure, the contributors forget the cameras are even there!

hyperballad · 12-05-09 04:33:45

I have always found the camera to be an erotic object... Even a stills camera. Every ISM shoot I've ever done has been accompanied by one almight wank session. Capturing myself naked is hot and totally turns me on. And I don't think I'm alone in feeling that either.

The one and only IFM video where there was someone there to operate cameras was my Upclose and in the end it didn't matter. I was a little worried I'd find it off putting, but you just forget anyone is even there. I've done lots of work with the videographers here, so have lots of our contributors so they've already seen on film what you're about to do in the flesh.

And I'm not shy either, incase you haven't noticed

For videos that do need someone there, our contributors know this in advance and agree to it *if* they're comfortable with it. Also some feature videos have beginning and ending sequences filmed by crew seperate to the actual masturbating bit, so we can leave them in privacy for that. Then through the magic of editing we stick it all together.

richard · 12-05-09 06:51:05

We can't guarantee that all the orgasms are genuine, but it's certainly what we aim to maximise, by creating envrionments where, as Cate says, it's easier just to have the real thing than put it on.

Can I talk about the bell curve? Bobby loves it when I talk about the bell curve. At the bottom end is the minority of people who don't achieve orgasm no matter how favourable the situation. In the middle are the people who sometimes can, then usually can, and up the top end are that awesome minority who can pretty much always make it no matter what the situation. (This is not gender specific.) That minority are also people who tend to like participating in our projects, which is jolly good.

guifersix · 12-05-09 13:52:33

Wow! This is a really fast reacting forum. Thank you to everybody for answering and solving my doubts about the reality of the pleasures experienced by the contributors. I have also a comment to make after looking at some of the most exciting self-induced orgasms: most probably, no "actress" would make such a long effort before reaching her pleasure. She would finish off much earlier, am I right Hyperballad and Cate?

richard · 12-05-09 14:39:18

That's a question you should be asking an actress.

gala · 13-05-09 08:11:22

Guifersix, the language you're using suggests that you might be confused about where we get our contributors. Very few of them would actually be calling themselves an 'actress' or a 'model', though there are certainly a few who identify themselves as such. The people who we deal with are everyday folks who are gathered from pretty democratic methods in the sense that we reach a whole bunch of demographics and interest groups and 'types'. We aren't gathering people who specifically have pornographic / 'adult' experience, or people who are accustomed to being in front of the camera.

With little exception, all of the contributors here on IFM have been through the experience of completing www.beautifulagony.com. This project is often the first time they've been faced with being intentionally sexual in front of a camera, and so it is usually very much a documentation of their reaction to that experience. Unless you really try, you can't do much 'acting' there, and most people just kinda take the experience for what it is and don't attempt to control what happens in it. IFM can be said to be an extension of that reaction, as someone goes through the process of revealing different things to the camera. That is a very personal experience and that's why you see so many different responses on this website.

Piggybacking on what Cate has said above, for those who see this at least in part as an artistic endeavour, there is the impetus to use this space as a medium for creating your little art project: an orgasm (or orgasms). In order to make the best and most beautiful one you can make, you need to put all of your effort and concentration into that - sort of like sitting down to write something or paint or play music. We encourage our contributors to think about our projects in this way when they are so inclined, and we do what we can to make that work. For some of the more high-production shoots that take a lot of setup and patience on the part of the contributor, I think many of them are taken by the effort expended on the aesthetics of their shoot and that puts them in the spirit of participating in that art project with the creation of their orgasm.

Of course not all of the contributors think in such a wanky way, but I do talk to quite a few of them and I get this sense from a fair few of them. Everyone has their own take on the experience of being in the camera's sights, but we do the most we can to encourage them to be as honest as possible.

ngaio · 14-05-09 08:47:43

This almost makes me wonder if we should have an IFM blog, or perhaps even a feck blog, for comments such as that to be posted, perhaps even elaborated on. Sure, we have the forums but it almost seems a shame for stuff like that to be nestled amongst a lot of other comments.

Of course, I'm currently overtired and not thinking properly so what seems like a good idea to me right now probably won't tomorrow!

gala · 14-05-09 08:56:30

The idea's come and gone, and may come and go again. It is a good one, though.

guifersix · 14-05-09 13:54:08

Since I haven't found on the Forum my reply to Gaia and since I don't want to leave a wrong impression of what I said, I'm stating again that in my comment the word "actress" between quotes meant that for me there is a big difference between a woman who fakes - performs - an orgasm and IFM's contributors who dedicate so much zeal and care to reaching a real one. They simply love pleasure for the pleasure of us all. That's why they must be profoundly respected.

blissed · 14-05-09 16:55:54

Well guifersix when you mod a forum you can see everybody's IP address and I think it's a pretty safe assumption your 1st language isn't English. As your anonymous I'll leave it up to you if you want to say or not what language you speak or where you live. But anyway when your writing in a second language self expression can be much less accurate especially when it comes to inference, which like dark matter exists between the lines and can be strong or week depending on exactly what words surround it and in exactly what order. So when you wrote

guifersix wrote:

most probably, no "actress" would make such a long effort before reaching her pleasure. She would finish off much earlier, am I right Hyperballad and Cate?

That looked to a native English speaker that you may have been inferring that Hyperballad and Cate were actresses and the spirit of it looked a little negative. So emotionally the next post was pretty much guaranteed to be a "do we really need to talk anymore about this" kind of reply.

I'm pretty sure thats why Richard replied

richard wrote:

That's a question you should be asking an actress.

So with the benefit of hindsight I don't think you were inferring anything but just asking a straight question of Cate and Hyperballad and they probably didn't answer because (as I did at the time too) they shared Richard's interpretation of your post.
Anyway, I find all this language stuff really interesting thats why I've written so much in this post

By the way, I think where you live is fascinating and really beautiful.

.

guifersix · 14-05-09 22:28:55

OK Blissed, you are guessing right: my first language is'nt English but Italian and though I write a lot in English for business reasons, certainly I stll cannot grab all its literary subtetlies. You can believe it or not, but when it comes to expressing sentiments and feelings, English is a much more precise language than Italian. The next time i'll be more prudent in writing about womanly matters.

theant · 15-05-09 00:38:43

Actually, guifersix, your use of quotation marks around the word "actress" was entirely correct in English grammar and made your intended meaning clear. Your first language may not be English, but you have indeed mastered it!

hyperballad · 15-05-09 01:24:42

Hey guifersix, I understood you weren't implying I'm an actress, I just didn't quite know what to reply...

I will say that however long it takes to reach orgasm is how long it takes and thats that. There are no time restraints and this is a big part of why IFM is so amazing and much different to mainstream pornography, you are left in total privacy for as long as you need to do whatever it is you do to get off.

It's pretty bloody brilliant.

Especially when you live in a share house with 3 friends and wank with your doona stuffed in your mouth most of the time...

Your written english is remarkable for it being a 2nd language

gala · 15-05-09 01:29:38

guifersix wrote:

Since I haven't found on the Forum my reply to Gaia...

Ha thanks, I am not nearly such a goddess though...imagine me trying to get away with naming myself Gaia. My name's Gala.

ngaio · 15-05-09 01:43:23

gala wrote:

The idea's come and gone, and may come and go again. It is a good one, though.

Ahhh can I ask the reasons for it never coming about? I'm guessing the simple but big fact of time constraints?

Last edited by ngaio (15-05-09 01:43:39)

blissed · 15-05-09 02:41:25

guifersix wrote:

OK Blissed, you are guessing right: my first language is'nt English but Italian and though I write a lot in English for business reasons, certainly I stll cannot grab all its literary subtetlies. You can believe it or not, but when it comes to expressing sentiments and feelings, English is a much more precise language than Italian. The next time i'll be more prudent in writing about womanly matters.

Hey people like me who speak only English every day occasionally misunderstand each other, your English is good and a fair bit better than my Italian and now everyone knows your using a second language there's no worries.

.

gala · 26-05-09 02:03:47

I came across this relevant quote (please excuse its length) in the notes that come with the DVD Megacities, which is an art doc that portrays people surviving in four major world cities, focusing on folks on the low end of the socioeconomic stratum. I don't really want to say that much more about it cos I don't want to misrepresent but it's very nicely made and well worth your time. The film shows some pretty haunting stuff, really personal things in these people's lives, and this is what the filmmaker Michael Glawogger had to say about the whole 'reality' thing and the presence of the camera, which is what I found relevant to this discussion:

Michael Glawogger, in conversation with Ginu Kamani wrote:

...So, if you alter reality by being there with the camera, then you
always alter it, so, if you set the degree to an extent higher where
you can show such a thing, it's never going to be exactly like it is
in reality, but what is? I mean, nobody sits in front of the camera
and talks to the director - that's a very strong alteration of reality
too! So I think it should be in the hands of the filmmaker to say how
far he goes, and I think you have to build up trust between yourself
and the audience, so that they accept it. And if somebody's there who
says, You're a liar, you're a cheater, that's not the way it is, I can
do nothing. I can say, Well, I never ever shot anything that I didn't
see. Sometimes I have to re-do it, re-stage it, it's not so much
different from every other documentary, where somebody says, Come on
do it again because we didn't get the shot.
The people who I would say understood, or took the film the way it is,
those people always say they had a very strong feeling of
authenticity, of truth. I'm way more interested in moments of truth
than moments which are 'captured' - because I think you can capture a
football game or a war, but you may never capture private moments:
that sense that you're there and you can feel it. If you're in a
small room and somebody robs some other person or even if there's a
private conversation between a couple, that's not, in that sense,
'documentary' filmmaking - that even though you're there it will
happen anyway. The football game, yes, the war, yes, but this, no.
So there's always alteration, from the moment you're there with a
camera.

Sometimes we do call IFM 'documentary', or we say it's shot in 'documentary style'. This way of looking at that subject made me question that. We also use the word 'capture', as though it were something we stumbled upon when we happened to have a camera in hand, as though we are recording footage for a David Attenborough series or something. It would be a lie to say that this is first-degree reality, because the act itself is staged - the person filmed had an appointment to be filmed and knows what is expected of her during that time. But then the act itself, the human orgasm, human sexuality, is a truth in and of itself, no matter where it's created. So in that way we can be said, in the event that the subject of the film has indeed produced just that, to be presenting a 'truth'. I take no position on the terminology that we use, apart from an insistence that it is ambivalent.

Good shit, these questions about reality.

neukgraag · 26-05-09 03:04:54

Certainly thought provoking.

blissed · 26-05-09 12:25:27

Making a video of someone having a real orgasm is like filming someone really singing rather than miming. The singing / orgasm is your essential reality, the rest can be fantasy if you want, like 1948 by charltte_v.

Come to think of it, a singing orgasm is such a good idea I think this site should do it before somebody else does.

.

aven frey · 27-05-09 03:52:35

Errol Morris's 'The thin blue line' is another excellent example of questioning truth and reality, Gala you'd love it, I used to have it but I loaned it and I can't remember who to. The photographer Philip Lorca DiCorcia also springs to mind. I always love this discussion and I think it's very relevant to what we do here.

artist_charlotte_v · 27-05-09 04:29:38

Personally I feel it would be a waste of a golden opportunity to fake it. To be able to be a part of IFM and show the world that porn/erotica doesn't have to be fake to be sexy is awesome.

As other people have explained there are many kinds of filming environments, most involve stationary cameras. How the videos are filmed are up to the contributor and what makes her feel the most comfortable.

neukgraag · 27-05-09 14:01:24

artist_charlotte_v wrote:

To be able to be a part of IFM and show the world that porn/erotica doesn't have to be fake to be sexy is awesome.

I am a subscriber to several adult sites and have been to many more over the years, and indeed, real masturbation and real orgasms are far more intense to watch than the fake shows put on by porn stars. It takes a transition period to start to appreciate the sublety of real and honest female sexuality, but then somehow you just sense that it is real and to me it is an exhilarating experience every time.

Also, in most cases, the contributor closes her eyes and disappears into her fantasy while masturbating and then becomes totally oblivious of the cameras and her surroundings and therefore is no longer influenced by it. So her reactions are completely honest and authentic, just as if she would be in the privacy of her bedroom.

Then there are contributors who play to the cameras, but they may be exhibitionists and are living out a fantasy. That then is also real, because that is part of their sexuality, wouldn't you say?

#1 11-05-09 16:08:03

Filming environment and true orgasm

#2 11-05-09 18:50:46

Re: Filming environment and true orgasm

#3 12-05-09 00:41:31

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#4 12-05-09 04:20:53

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#5 12-05-09 04:33:45

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#6 12-05-09 06:51:05

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#7 12-05-09 13:52:33

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#8 12-05-09 14:39:18

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#9 13-05-09 08:11:22

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#10 14-05-09 08:47:43

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#11 14-05-09 08:56:30

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#12 14-05-09 13:54:08

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#13 14-05-09 16:55:54

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#14 14-05-09 22:28:55

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#15 15-05-09 00:38:43

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#16 15-05-09 01:24:42

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#17 15-05-09 01:29:38

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#18 15-05-09 01:43:23

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#19 15-05-09 02:41:25

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#20 26-05-09 02:03:47

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#21 26-05-09 03:04:54

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#22 26-05-09 12:25:27

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#23 27-05-09 03:52:35

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#24 27-05-09 04:29:38

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#25 27-05-09 14:01:24

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