Should fantasies be PC?

ngaio · 20-03-09 04:17:02

Hey everyone,

This is something I've been thinking about lately and when I stumbled upon this article, it got me to thinking about the topic more: http://www.yourtango.com/200913372/shou … sies-be-pc

Now, lately I've been having a lot of debates with a friend of mine who is bothered by the fact that I, like many women, have the "rape" fantasy, even though I am a hardcore feminist who's incredibly anti-rape, it is something I regularly fantasise about and have role played in a safe environment with a stable partner.

However, said friend was incredibly disturbed and worried that this would be damaging our relationship and our general mental health. I told said friend to bugger off and mind their own business (not really, though, but I wanted to!) and we ended up getting into an incredibly long debate which ended up nowhere.

Er, I digress a little. Basically, I believe that as long as one is able to distinguish the difference between fantasy and reality, as long as make believe is practiced in a safe environment and as long as nobody is hurt... there's really nothing wrong with fantasising about whatever the heck you damn well want. I believe in monitoring one's actions but I sure as hell ain't gonna censor my own fantasies.

But then maybe I'm already a lost cause

What do you all think?

Last edited by ngaio (20-03-09 04:18:45)

blissed · 20-03-09 06:35:41

Fantasizing about being raped is OK because your the rapist.

My belief is that libido is our brains software that we need to run a game, I think most people can exert some free will over it and change it a little bit over time and some people can change their libido quite a lot, but it's usually pretty much the same, populated with schoolgirls and nurses or nuns with whips :) Hey! I'm giving too much away here :)

.

ngaio · 20-03-09 06:51:37

blissed wrote:

Fantasizing about being raped is OK because your the rapist.

Oh man! That's great! I like that a lot. You = awesome.

Nuns with whips also = awesome. Well done, haha!

blissed · 20-03-09 07:00:58

Hey thanks :)

BTW I think the nuns thing would be great idea for a video.

.

ngaio · 20-03-09 07:55:01

Haha! I think you may be right...

aven frey · 20-03-09 08:18:37

No the best fantasies are as un PC as possible.

neukgraag · 20-03-09 16:11:36

ngaio wrote:

Basically, I believe that as long as one is able to distinguish the difference between fantasy and reality, there's really nothing wrong with fantasising about whatever the heck you damn well want.

That is the key here, ngaio, as long as it stays a fantasy and you control how you play that out with a trusted partner, you are ok.

It is believed that urges and emotions are inherited from our earliest of human ancestors. In prehistoric times the men went out hunting and the women stayed close to the village to gather edible plants. Sometimes those men stumbled on females from another tribe and took advantage of them.

Now, tribes were really extended families and therefore there was a risk of inbreeding. Getting raped was a good thing as far as mixing up the gene pool. So, according to Darwin, those women who liked to be raped were more likely to have children and passed that desire on....all the way to you, ngaio.

That is also maybe, why women like men with accents. I know. I speak several languages, but have a heavy accent of course and women just love it when you talk to them in their native tongue. Talking of which - you Aussie have a cool accent - even if I have trouble understanding you sometimes

blissed · 20-03-09 20:59:07

neukgraag wrote:

women like men with accents,

.

ngaio · 23-03-09 03:49:57

Interesting theory, Neukraag, I've not actually heard that put quite that way before... Not enitrely sure if it sits quite right with me but I'd have to read more about it before coming to any of my own conclusions. Can you recommend any specific reading material on that?

neukgraag wrote:

you Aussie have a cool accent - even if I have trouble understanding you sometimes

Try not to bundle us all under "you Aussies"... us kiwis might take offense!

Blissed, ha! Willy IS pretty hot at times, you know. Remember when he subdued the wolf that attacked Bart? His chest was a-ripplin' that time!

neukgraag · 23-03-09 14:26:03

You are right; it is just a theory. You know why people like sweets? In prehistoric times the only things sweet was ripe fruit. Those of our ancesters that had a sweet tooth, ate ripe fruit, and were a little healthier and carried that trait onto us. And now what do we do?

During the Middle Ages, cities and towns did not have potable drinking water and waterborne deceases frequently wiped out entire regions. The only people that survived were those that drank beer. Maybe that is why so many of us like beer.

It is also theorized that the reason we like beautiful women, with symetrical faces, full breasts, etc, is because that is an indication of her health and child bearing abilities.

Now, I wonder, why do we like sex? You any ideas?

It is true that many women have rape fantasies. When my wife tells me "to have my way with her", I know she is fantasizing and sometimes she likes me to be a little rough with her as well.

Lucy probably had the same fantasies. By the way, there is a new book out on Lucy. Tomorrow I am taking students to the nearby Museum of natural history. But that is all about dinosaur fossils and stuff.

blissed · 23-03-09 17:17:55

ngaio wrote:

Blissed, ha! Willy IS pretty hot at times, you know. Remember when he subdued the wolf that attacked Bart? His chest was a-ripplin' that time!

There you go

Don't download it tho, Simpsons porn is illegal in Australia :) Lol

.

ngaio · 24-03-09 00:33:30

blissed wrote:

Don't download it tho, Simpsons porn is illegal in Australia Lol!

Gasp! My innocent eyes! You have tainted them with hot Willy!

Neukgraag, I apologise if I offended you? I am actually genuinely interestested in theories of evolution (in fact when I was about 9 years old, I argued with our primary school religious instructor in front of the whole class - he said there was no such thing as evolution and I got angry!).

I'm also interested in trying to understand what might be socialised as opposed to instinctual, hence asking if you knew any reading material on that particular subject because I am genuinely interested.

neukgraag · 24-03-09 03:09:06

No, ngaio, you did not hurt my feelings. You're ok.

Some people do not want to believe in Darwin's theory of evolution, because they want to take the bible litterally and believe in creation as described in Genesis. They are also known as creationists.

That is a big bone of contention here in the state of Kansas for the schools. There has been heated debate and changes in the school board over this as to what to teach in science class.

And then there are also still people - seriously - who believe that the earth is flat.

For some reason I cannot think of a book to recommend to you so quickly. When I do, I'll let you know.

ngaio · 24-03-09 03:21:51

Mmm yeah, I've been following a bit of that on the ol' internet as I've a few good American friends from when I lived there years ago. I'm an athiest, so it all unnerves me.

Do let me know when you think of some reading material! I'm a bit of a bookwork at times

neukgraag · 25-03-09 01:53:15

The exhibit we visited today on evolution at the museum of natural history was most interesting. A good book to read on evolution is Lucy’s Legacy by Dr. Donald Johanson. However, like most books on evolution, it deals more with the physical evolution of the human body, i.e. starting to walk up straight, using our hands, developing tools, our brains becoming larger, etc., and not so much about what roles emotion and sexual urge played.

Something available – for free – on the internet about the possible evolutionary origins of female rape fantasies you can try is:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/humann … ousal.aspx

By the way, you being a Kiwi, are you familiar with Arnhem Land? Have you had an opportunity to visit it?

hyperballad · 25-03-09 03:06:38

Ah yes the Kansas school board deciding that Intelligent Design be taught along with Evolution... Click on link below for another alternative 'The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster'.

http://www.venganza.org/

Read the open letter to the Kansas school board first

adele_w · 25-03-09 04:59:32

That's cool, hyperballad. I imagine there'd be a lot less confusion and fighting in this world if we were taught more about the Flying Spaghetti Monster before those other pesky belief systems wormed their way in.

Returning to the topic of this thread, all my sexual fantasies involve me lecturing others from a pedestal about the semantics of their politically incorrect fantasies. The power dynamic gets me really hot. Not only do I vicariously get to experience other people's self-righteousness (rather than my own) for a change, but the pedestal is at the perfect height for certain pleasurable activities.

But seriously, most of my fantasies actually involve me smashing the crap out of frogs with a rubber mallet whilst a mortified Pamela Anderson chases after me in a vegan leather bikini. Hot pink, of course.

No but really, seriously, why censor your mind? Screw the thought police (in a violent gang bang, if that's your thing)!! The very term itself - fantasy - implies a departure from reality. I strongly believe that ANYTHING goes. And misplaced or stifling political correctness is almost the antithesis of (good) sex.

blissed · 25-03-09 05:38:16

adele_w wrote:

I imagine there'd be a lot less confusion and fighting in this world if we were taught more about the Flying Spaghetti Monster

I don't normally talk about my religion, but I have been touched by his noodly appendage and it was nice

.

ngaio · 25-03-09 07:20:59

Neukraag, fantastic! Thanks for the link, will read it from home, rather than using precious work hours! And nope, no chance to visit Arnhem land as yet. I've honestly not travelled around Australia much at all though of course I intend to...

Adele, you are almost too awesome. Vegan leather bikini? Oh, HOT.

Ok, yeah, being serious now. What about porn etc that actually -depicts- politically incorrect fantsies. Is it different to keeping it simply in one's head or is it all about giving it context?

For example, in relation to the Simpsons porn fiasco (and I'm sure that has already been discussed on the forums, so forgive me, I'm a newbie!), I found myself incredibly disturbed by the law. Simpsons porn does nothing for me but it IS drawn so I don't see it as something which should be demonised because there are no victims.

I have no idea if I am making sense. Joining in conversations between film edits seems to require a bit of a brain switch.

TheEggMan · 25-03-09 09:54:13

Well, personally, I have restrained myself from indulging in too many non-PC fantasies. I am going to speak in general terms here because I believe that what I am going to say applies to all kinks. There are parts of our brain that light up when we think about a certain fantasy. Those paths get reinforced the more we think about them. Once you act upon those fantasies, something changes in your brain that wires those ideas to action. Now in this picture no one is sure exactly where choice comes in, but I know that once you have crossed the line from fantasy to role playing it becomes increasingly difficult to achieve the same erotic plateau. Simple analogy: a nibble becomes a bite, which becomes a mouthful and suddenly you need to go next door for more cookies.

So if by PC you mean what "most" people think is ok, then no, fantasies should NOT be PC. But if by PC you mean should you fantasize about things that you think are wrong, absolutely not. I very deeply believe that anything between two consenting and informed adults should be legal. But I also believe that if your fantasy involves something illegal, and it's illegal for good reason, you should be careful which paths you tread upon. Even if you draw very clear lines with your partner, they can't read your mind. They might surprise you. Be prepared.

ngaio · 26-03-09 01:04:20

TheEggMan wrote:

Simple analogy: a nibble becomes a bite, which becomes a mouthful and suddenly you need to go next door for more cookies.

See, now I don't buy that. I've been with the same partner for a year, who was my best friend for several years before that and I do not find myself needing to seek more extreme thrills, nor does he as far as I can tell. A large percentage of our love making is still of the soft and sweet variety, we just like to explore other things to throw in a bit of spice.

TheEggMan wrote:

They might surprise you. Be prepared.

That's what safe words are for.

neukgraag · 29-03-09 15:48:04

In the newspaper this morning is an article about yet another child pornography conviction. Most people convicted of child pornography are middle aged white men with a family and a good job and no prior convictions. With other words, regular guys.
If you have fantasies about illegal activities, such as little boys and girls, that is definitely not a good thing and that is not a fantasy you should indulge in.
While these are vile crimes, it can also be looked at, in my opinion, as a genetic affliction – which you cannot help - but you should seek help before it is too late. You have that responsibility. Just as people with drinking problems need to seek help.
In Japan they have videos of young, but legal age girls, with ponytails and dressed up in school uniforms. It made me very uncomfortable.

midnightcat · 29-03-09 17:32:33

In relation to child porn, a major part of the problem is that these are films made with children. In other words there is already a crime involved in making them. If they were cartoons or text, we'd have to ask whether seeing/reading them made people more likely to abuse children. I think it might, for the reasons The EggMan gives. There would certainly be an unhealthy culture around such materials.

A lot of people's private sexual fantasies would be terrible if put into practice – for example, fantasies of raping or killing or being raped or killed. Should we be ashamed of having things like that in our heads? Should we try not to have fantasies along those lines, in case they lead to real actions? That's a really difficult question, especially for people to whom S&M is emotionally important. Everyone finds their own answer, and their own rules about what they imagine and when.

On a slightly different track, do people watching an IFM film fantasise about having sex with the artist? Or being the artist? Or being a voyeur at the artist's window? Or all three at once?

For example, I would suspect that part of the appeal for many male viewers of IFM films that show the artist face down is that it allows the fantasy (conscious or otherwise) of making love to the artist from behind. Watching a suitable IFM film with that in mind might be more satisfying on a number of levels than watching a conventional porn clip in which penetration from behind actually happens. IFM films allow the viewer not only to fantasise around what is seen, but to project fantasies into the artist's mind. In this way they stimulate desire for intimacy rather than just desire for more and 'heavier' porn.

Or maybe I'm talking bollocks. I dunno.

blissed · 29-03-09 21:59:41

neukgraag wrote:

In Japan they have videos of young, but legal age girls, with ponytails and dressed up in school uniforms. It made me very uncomfortable.

mmmmmmmm schoolgirls

.

ngaio · 30-03-09 00:38:18

neukgraag wrote:

If you have fantasies about illegal activities, such as little boys and girls, that is definitely not a good thing and that is not a fantasy you should indulge in.
While these are vile crimes, it can also be looked at, in my opinion, as a genetic affliction – which you cannot help - but you should seek help before it is too late. .

When you say "these are vile crimes" do you mean you consider even -fantasising- about such things to be a vile crime? I can't say it's a fantasy I personally have (I fantasize about people much older than myself, if anything!) but I just am apprehensive about the idea that people who have these certain fantasies are only a step away from becoming paedophiles. Is there actual proof of this?

I certainly agree with the "seeking help" thing only because I think it is important to discuss this sort of thing but if people are going to instantly react with disgust at what is perhaps JUST fantasy, then it certainly would not make it easy to approach someone and discuss it. What if people can't help but have these fantasies and simply need a harmless outlet for them? I just don't think "that is wrong, stop it before you act it out!" attitude would necessarilly achieve much. Can people actually truly change or control their fantasies? Should they really have to if they are able to keep them entirely in the realm of fantasy?

I apologise, I think I'm talking in circles here.

midnightcat wrote:

In relation to child porn, a major part of the problem is that these are films made with children. In other words there is already a crime involved in making them. If they were cartoons or text, we'd have to ask whether seeing/reading them made people more likely to abuse children. I think it might, for the reasons The EggMan gives. There would certainly be an unhealthy culture around such materials.

I think we -would- have to ask that question and find a way to answer it before we make any judgements. Just because that fantasy makes us uncomfortable, if (IF) drawn and text based fantasies provided a safe outlet for said fantasies, I don't think they should be made illegal.

Yep, I'm absolutely talking in circles here.

midnightcat wrote:

A lot of people's private sexual fantasies would be terrible if put into practice – for example, fantasies of raping or killing or being raped or killed. Should we be ashamed of having things like that in our heads? Should we try not to have fantasies along those lines, in case they lead to real actions? That's a really difficult question, especially for people to whom S&M is emotionally important. Everyone finds their own answer, and their own rules about what they imagine and when.

As a feminist and someone who has several good friends who have been raped, I used to be incredibly ashamed of my own private rape fantasies. Until I realised I don't actually WANT to be raped, I can tell the difference between reality and fantasy (and so can my partner). My rape fantasies are light years apart from my rape fears. Light years apart from the helpless rage I felt when seeing one of my best friend's rapists face to face and knowing he was going to get away with it.

So yeah, wisely put, I think. We do all find our own answers and I think the trick is to not instantly label things as bad before analysing and dealing to them appropriatly.

Forgive my babbling!

Last edited by ngaio (30-03-09 00:39:33)

#1 20-03-09 04:17:02

Should fantasies be PC?

#2 20-03-09 06:35:41

Re: Should fantasies be PC?

#3 20-03-09 06:51:37

Re: Should fantasies be PC?

#4 20-03-09 07:00:58

Re: Should fantasies be PC?

#5 20-03-09 07:55:01

Re: Should fantasies be PC?

#6 20-03-09 08:18:37

Re: Should fantasies be PC?

#7 20-03-09 16:11:36

Re: Should fantasies be PC?

#8 20-03-09 20:59:07

Re: Should fantasies be PC?

#9 23-03-09 03:49:57

Re: Should fantasies be PC?

#10 23-03-09 14:26:03

Re: Should fantasies be PC?

#11 23-03-09 17:17:55

Re: Should fantasies be PC?

#12 24-03-09 00:33:30

Re: Should fantasies be PC?

#13 24-03-09 03:09:06

Re: Should fantasies be PC?

#14 24-03-09 03:21:51

Re: Should fantasies be PC?

#15 25-03-09 01:53:15

Re: Should fantasies be PC?

#16 25-03-09 03:06:38

Re: Should fantasies be PC?

#17 25-03-09 04:59:32

Re: Should fantasies be PC?

#18 25-03-09 05:38:16

Re: Should fantasies be PC?

#19 25-03-09 07:20:59

Re: Should fantasies be PC?

#20 25-03-09 09:54:13

Re: Should fantasies be PC?

#21 26-03-09 01:04:20

Re: Should fantasies be PC?

#22 29-03-09 15:48:04

Re: Should fantasies be PC?

#23 29-03-09 17:32:33

Re: Should fantasies be PC?

#24 29-03-09 21:59:41

Re: Should fantasies be PC?

#25 30-03-09 00:38:18

Re: Should fantasies be PC?

Board footer