If she did....how can you tell?

bezebee4 · 27-01-09 14:40:11

Did she? or didn't she....cum?.

I first seriously asked myself this question at the tender age of nineteen, when an argument with a then girlfriend climaxed (excuse the pun and the irony) in her saying " you never ever, not once, ever made me cum" and my response " honey, I never ever, not once, ever tried". It soon became clear through endless hours of coffee shop counselling with mutual friends that both statements were derived not from fact, but from the desire to inflict pain.

It was in relationship terms a near death experience but our relationship survived, my green naivety however was not so lucky. It suffered a sudden painful death and in it's ashes, like moist sapling shoots rising from the charred embers of a forest fire grow a quest, nourished by a single question which has led me here to you scholars and connoisseurs of the orgasmic "if she did, how can you tell?".

richard · 27-01-09 14:51:33

My first reaction to this was, why did you not ever try? I can't imagine satisfying sex when my partner doesn't come.

But the last question can't be answered for sure, because some women don't know either.

blissed · 27-01-09 16:13:08

bezebee4 wrote:

like moist sapling shoots rising from the charred embers of a forest fire grow a quest, nourished by a single question

*Nourishes your moist sampling roots with rich fine blended organic manure*

There, thats better :)

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bezebee4 · 27-01-09 16:31:10

Blissed, that's not nice...try to be constructive. And next time please READ what I wrote.

bezebee4 · 27-01-09 16:54:47

Thanks for your comment Richard. You asked the question why didn't I ever try?

If you read carefully what I wrote you will realise that what I said to my girlfriend and what she said to me was said because we were in the heat of an argument, and what was said was not based on facts it was simply based on our desires at the time to hurt one another.

It is a difficult question, but I believe there is an answer.

blissed · 27-01-09 17:54:27

bezebee4 wrote:

Blissed, that's not nice...try to be constructive. And next time please READ what I wrote.

No, it's read what I've written.

Your moist sapling shoots need more than charred embers of the forrest fire to grow a quest, there's too much lime, you can't grow a decent quest like that.

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bezebee4 · 27-01-09 20:40:36

And it's sapling not sampling with reference to your second to last contribution.

Is sarcasm all you have to offer on the subject blissed?

midnightcat · 27-01-09 22:11:24

But it's rather good sarcasm, don't you think?

aven frey · 28-01-09 00:40:25

richard wrote:

But the last question can't be answered for sure, because some women don't know either.

Yep, if you fellows don't know then how are we ladies supposed to either! Jesus! Not the porno kind.

Anyway Bezebee4, since no one has answered your question seriously I will suggest it's all about communication. Everything always is. Perhaps Bush wouldn't have caused so much havoc if he'd known how to articulate himself!

Why don't you talk to your girlfriend about the sex you have, as candidly as you can, both of you need to take responsibility for making the sex part of your relationship awesome.

blissed · 28-01-09 04:04:28

bezebee4 wrote:

And it's sapling not sampling with reference to your second to last contribution.
Is sarcasm all you have to offer on the subject blissed?

Yes I have got some thoughts about this but I asked bobby to post them for me ^ :) I'm probly the only one who knows what their talking about here.

bezebee4 wrote:

scholars and connoisseurs of the orgasmic.

Yep thats me :)

So in conclusion, all you have to do is ask your partner and they'll give you the answer.

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nihpuad · 28-01-09 08:28:09

bobby wrote:

Perhaps Bush wouldn't have caused so much havoc if he'd known how to articulate himself!

Not to hijack the thread into politics, but I'll just note briefly that if he'd been a bit cleverer (and more subtle) at expressing himself, he'd have been even more dangerous (hard as that is to imagine). At least, with it plainly obvious what a tosser he was, we Yanks only needed 8 years to figure things out!

neukgraag · 29-01-09 03:48:01

bezebee4 wrote:

Did she? or didn't she....cum?.
"if she did, how can you tell?".

To get back to the original question, there is no way to say for sure if a woman did or did not have an orgasm and it can so easily be faked. On most porn sites, the orgasms are always faked.

But it should not be an issue with your wife or girl friend. If it is, it is probably because she feels that she has to orgasm for you, or you will be disappointed, and that you do not have a lot of patience either. So, she fakes one. To prevent that, tell her that you have all the time and patience in the world and if she does not cum at all that is ok too.

My own wife often comes home tired and stressed out and in no mood for sex. So…I start to massage her tired feet and then her tired shoulders. I actually took massage lessons so that I have some idea how to do that well.

By the time I finally get to her pussy, she will say something that she does not think that she can orgasm because she is too tired and I tell her she does not have to. As long as it feels good. Does it feel good?

Invariably she will cum in mere minutes.

I start very slow and soft and do not speed up until she tells me to. She will let me know and say “faster” or “make me cum”, or something quite clearly. Never fails.

bezebee4 · 30-01-09 01:54:49

Neukgraag, I was disheartened to hear you echo Richard's sentiments by suggesting it is probably impossible to tell when a woman is having a real orgasm. However I was equally heartened to see, from what you have written (thank you blissed) that true scholars, connoisseurs and more significantly true gentlemen walk the virtual halls of these forums. Your input has raised some valid points and both you and Bobby hit the nail on the head, good sex is indeed all about communication.

The problem is, although men and women speak the same language and use the same words the meaning behind the words occasionally differ especially when the subject matter is sex. During the early stages of my quest I asked my girlfriend "is there anything you would like me to do differently in the bedroom?". I expected her to say "yes, don't turn up", but she eventually said "you can be a little more sensual with your foreplay". I immediately assumed she meant take more time and be more gentle in the thirty minutes prior to sticking your cock in. I never would have guessed, not in a million years, that late night hand in hand strolls along the promenade, champagne candlelit dinners and soothing rose petal baths for two was the sensual foreplay she had in mind.

I guess in order to effectively communicate requires a deeper level of understanding between partners, a level of understanding usually forged over a long term relationship. Nine times out of ten when you first engage in sexual relations, this psychological bond has not yet been forged and all you have to go on is the physical experience. This was the situation I faced with my girlfriend.

Over the years I have tried to coax out the secrets of this erotic equivalent to the holy grail by the use of a little reverse psychology on my female acquaintances. I asked the question "what are the visible characteristics of the average male orgasm?". My girlfriend put it the most eloquently she said, "he tenses, he grunts, he squirts", six simple words which surprisingly pretty much sums it up. It was an obvious answer which I hoped would encourage her to give me an equally frank summation of the female equivalent, but when I asked, her response was "that's for me to know and for you to find out".

I think, for my girlfriend and for many women the feeling that your partner is naturally in tune with you physically, emotionally and spiritually is a powerful aphrodisiac and spelling things out particularly in the bedroom shatters the illusion. My girlfriend comes from a generation of women who do not believe all the facet of attraction, sex and orgasm should be laid bare and clinically dissected for the sake of clarity. A degree of mystery is important because it encourages the process of sexual discovery which can play a vital part in sustaining a relationship. Unfortunately this does not help my quest.

To have your partner tell you, you have never satisfied her was for me a painful and debilitating experience. I believe the sensation of ripping out my own teeth and sterilising the exposed nerves with Naga Jolokia chilli sauce would have proved infinitely more pleasurable. Suffice to say I wouldn't recommend it. This primarily is why I have posted this question. I hope the wisdom shared in this discussion will prevent some other poor soul from suffering the same fate.

I therefore lay down the ultimate challenge to every scholar and connoisseurs of the female orgasm. Describe the visible characteristics of a real female orgasm in ten words or less, and my quest will be fulfilled.

"I'M COMIIIIIIIIIIIIIING ARRGGGGGGGH, bloody hell I think I broke my back!!" will not be considered a valid response.

adele_w · 30-01-09 04:01:18

Whilst I agree that mystery and the subtle, intuitive aspects of communication can be aphrodisiacs, it doesn't mean that a little, or a lot, of more direct discussion will kill romance. Actually, I don't see how one will sustain you without the other. Unless you want to go crazy with confusion and frustration. And if you use your imagination, you might even be able to talk openly without it feeling like a scientific study. Ultimately, what's more of an aphrodisiac than knowing your partner holistically?

To answer your question in ten words or less:
Every woman is different, every orgasm is different.

Watch the films on this site and you will see the incredible diversity in not only what makes a woman orgasm but what happens when she does. I'm afraid your quest will never be fulfilled if you believe it comes down to a description in ten words or less.

bezebee4 · 02-02-09 02:55:52

Adele_w, although I agree whole heartedly with your suggestion that every woman is different, I am not totally in agreement with the idea that every women's orgasm is different.

In my quest I have discovered a handful of sites which depicts real female orgasms, my observations has led me to believe this. During orgasm the involuntary or autonomic mostly physical bodily reactions are the same in all women and results in common physical traits, much like it does in men. However the way in which a woman voluntarily responds to the physical sensations of orgasm unlike men, vary greatly, because women have a unique ability to interpret physical stimuli on a multitude of different levels. As a result, we witness diversity. I think the key to answering the question "if she did, how can you tell" is to focus solely on the involuntary physical bodily reactions which occurs during orgasm.

You may argue that this is a typical male approach to the question, since the male orgasm is predominately driven and experienced on a physical level (with exception to those guys who cry during orgasm, I know, I don't understand either). Where as a woman's experience of orgasm is much more complex, embracing not only physical but psychological and in some cases spiritual elements. To focus solely on the involuntary physical signs of orgasm as indicators of a real orgasm would suggest we are ignoring the importance of all other voluntary responses during orgasm, this is not my suggestion. I simply believe the many layers of psychological and spiritual responses are not relevant to the question because they are virtually impossible to observe and not necessarily as prevalent or ubiquitous as the physical.

You maybe mistaken into believing that from what I have written (thank you again Blissed) that I already know the answer to my question. The truth is sometimes you see only what you want to see and as a result, you can be oblivious to anything which suggest the contrary. I cannot rule out the possibility that I am suffering from tunnel vision as a result of my quest.

Adele_w it's interesting that you write (or is it wrote, you've got me so damned confused Blissed) that when you watch the films on this site you see incredible diversity, in not only what makes a women orgasm but what happens when she does. The irony is when I watch the exact same films, perhaps as a result of tunnel vision, I see remarkable similarities. Similarities in facial contortion, muscular spasms, skin discolouration, masturbation rhythm, respiratory tempo and much much more. Similarities which suggest identifying the visual traits of a real female orgasm may not be as impossible as we are commonly led to believe.

But perhaps you are right Adele_w, perhaps my quest will not be realised and the age old question "If she did, how can you tell?" will for now, remain unanswered.

A friend of mine once responded to my question by saying "I will never ever answer that question, and it's not because I fake orgasms, I never have. It's simply because as a woman, I reserve the right to do so". She was a little intoxicated at the time and so was I, and I never quite worked out whether it was her talking or the alcohol.

blissed · 02-02-09 03:41:39

What your after is some kind of pocket device that gives you your answer.
Trouble is, usually when you wanna use it you won't have a pocket to put it in :)

I think what most people are telling you is, if you tell your partner their orgasm is as important to you as yours, then there's no point in them faking.

.

nihpuad · 02-02-09 06:17:18

I find this did-she-or-didn't she conversation amusing; it takes me back to my innocent (aka ignorant) adolescence, when we boys would discuss the mysteries of sex based on the cubed root of fuck-all for evidence or experience. I remember one of my friends solemnly insisted that erect nipples were a sure sign of climax... which I later (tragically, much later) learned proved that not only had he never witnessed an orgasm, he'd never witnessed so much as the early stages of sexual arousal.

I say, if she's happy with what you're doing, don't grill her too much about the specifics. Pleasure is the goal; not orgasm per se.

Folly · 02-02-09 16:17:59

bezeebee4, it seems that you are a lot more observant, and a lot less clueless than your first post leads us to believe. With all the observations you have made of similarities, surely you can be content with the list of telltale signs you have compiled?
In my experience, typically a woman will tense, perhaps arch her back, vocally give you the indication that you've done damn well, and then release and at times become oversensitive -but that's not taking into consideration the wealth of orgasm experiences evident here on ifm. My gf says that she can feel changes within my vagina such as texture and the grip of my muscles. Hence she can feel me come from within. I have not been observant enough to pick up on these subtle changes in others so I can't describe them any better for you. But I can hope that this might get you closer to whatever answer you are looking for.

Show your partner that you are really interested in pleasing her without putting pressure on her. It helps with the aphrodisiac cycle of being turned on, by someone else being turned on, that you are turned on.

bezebee4 · 10-02-09 03:15:28

Folly, you are a breath of fresh air. I had long since abandoned the idea that a direct, honest, unrestrained and intimate personal account of the female orgasm would ever immerge from this discussion. You made my day, and not for the first time, remember your vejayjay post?.

From the responses I have received so far the general consensus seems to be 'ask your girlfriend', but my quest was never to simply understand 'a female orgasm', the goal was much more ambitious. My intentions was to illuminate and witness, be it via literature or film, as many real female orgasms as possible in the hope that a common pattern or structure would immerge. I believed this was the key to fully understanding 'the female orgasm' and this would ultimately help me in my relationships. You could say I was attempting to travel the world, in order to fully understand where I came from.

We have never met Folly but from what I have read, you strike me as an incredibly beautiful, open hearted and completely fearless individual, your partner is a very lucky girl. I was stunned to read your summation of the female orgasm, "she tenses, perhaps arches her back, vocally gives you an indication you have done well and then releases and at times becoming overly sensitive". Not only did your description reflect my own observations but more interestingly your description of a woman's orgasm mirrored my girlfriends description, of a man's.

I guess the idea that a woman's orgasm and a man's is fundamentally the same or incredibly similar should not come as such a revelation when we consider the possibility that the main source of a man's orgasm, the penis, crudely put, is anatomically an extension of the main source (generally) of a woman's, the clitoris. So the stimulation of these respective sex organs should bring about autonomic responses which share similar features. Subconsciously I think we are all aware of this connection. Out of all my lovers over the years I have noticed the women who preferred to have their clitoral head flicked or tapped during cunnilingus and masturbation would be inclined to use a similar motion on the glands of my penis when pleasuring me, at times completely neglecting the shaft and scrotum. And those who preferred to have the main body or shaft of their clitoris massaged through the hood rather than the sensitive head, would in turn focus their attentions predominately on my shaft and testes. Surely this is not coincidence. In fact I would even suggest that by observing how your partner pleasures you, you can gain great insight into how they themselves wish to be pleasured.

I am not suggesting for a moment that the female orgasm should be considered any less feminine or the male any less masculine. Our overall different sexual anatomy will always impose slight differences in our orgasmic response which are unmistakably female or unmistakably male. However when considering the visual signs of a real female orgasm we should not rule out the possibility that it may share features with that of the male. I am beginning to believe the key to understanding and exploring your partners orgasm whether they are male or female, is in your ability to open your mind to the possibilities of your own.

It is true to say over time I have been enlightened on a great number of things, but I still believe there is much much more to learn. Your post Folly, was a welcome reminder of this fact. You described how your girlfriend could feel you orgasm by the changes within your vagina such as texture and grip. I had previously dismissed taking into account the signs of orgasm which are solely detectable via touch, taste and smell, largely because I felt these are the senses most likely to be compromised during sex.

I have found there are times during sex when my partners bodily aroma appears so pungent, powerful and intoxicating I am convinced I can literally taste it on my tongue. I would often ask her not to use deodorant prior to sex so that I could fully immerse myself in her natural scent and taste (I can be a dirty dog in the bedroom). Other times I believed while caressing her I could feel minute vibrations on the surface of her skin. Adversely there are yet other times when I am unable to feel, smell, taste or hear anything other than the pounding in my chest. It is difficult to distinguish or quantify which of these sensations are as a result of actual bodily changes, and which are simply dopamine illusions induced by a pheromone enriched environment. However, as a result of your contribution Folly I now believe the sense of touch, smell and taste deserves a greater role in my quest, from your description, I believe I have overlooked some truly wondrous sensations.

The answer to the question "if she did, how can you tell", has taken me along an interesting and sometimes frustrating journey. I have visited numerous sites, too many to count, all of which promising to deliver real female orgasms and all but a few failing miserably. But amidst this desolate ravaged landscape that is the porn industry, there exist on the fringes small oases were a wary traveller can quench his or her thirst in comfort and in good company. IFM being amongst the best, but what I have learnt from the many contributors to this discussion is, using this medium, there is only so much that can be learnt. A real female orgasm is a three dimensional experience it cannot be fully understood using two dimensional means. It must be directly experienced using a medium were all the senses not just the sense of sight and sound, can be fully engaged. A medium not dissimilar to the human body.

blissed · 10-02-09 04:44:58

bezebee4 wrote:

amidst this desolate ravaged landscape that is the porn industry, there exist on the fringes small oases were a wary traveller can quench his or her thirst.

You should write a book :)

.

bezebee4 · 10-02-09 14:31:13

I have already written it Blissed, it's called 'In search of paradise'. I'll send you a signed copy.

Incidentally I've also finished designing a prototype of that orgasm detection device you suggested earlier. It has a transmitter which is designed much like a bath towel, this is placed beneath the lovers and a tubular receptor.

It works by monitoring the monoglucomatic moleculites in the air, calculates the symtextualetic moronic ambient radiant temperature then extrapolates the comparative quantum visceral warp flow frequency. Any reading above one is considered a real orgasm.

The transmitter than sends a signal to the tubular receptor which is usually placed up the males backside (no pockets) and it discretely vibrates when female orgasm is detected. I've equipped it with three orgasm detection levels, mild, strong and heart attack.

Patent pending of course

blissed · 10-02-09 16:37:44

bezebee4 wrote:

It works by monitoring the monoglucomatic moleculites in the air, calculates the symtextualetic moronic ambient radiant temperature then extrapolates the comparative quantum visceral warp flow frequency.

Ha ha it can do all that from right up your ass?
I must have it. where can I get one :)

.

bezebee4 · 10-02-09 19:43:54

I'll send you one free of charge Blissed.

Which transmitter towel design would you like, Minnie Mouse, Mickey Mouse, Goofy or Donald Duck? (I'm trying to get Disney on board as sponsors).

blissed · 10-02-09 22:10:03

I'll have 2 towels with Goofy and a copy of your book if thats OK, thanks. Your a really nice man.

.

bezebee4 · 11-02-09 01:42:31

Not a problem, it's done.

#1 27-01-09 14:40:11

If she did....how can you tell?

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