Questionning the fashion of shaving ladies sexes

chmchrischm · 28-08-08 10:30:52

Here again, as a French speaking bloke, I don't know how you would express ladies "pussy shaving" in proper English - sorry for that. However, I have observed that a lot of IFM artists practice it. I really would like to have diverse opinions about that - and share mine. Until recently, i tended to consider it a specifically porn site manner of "enhancing" and overplaying feminine genitalia. BUT also in subtle and subliminal way to lean towards a pedophilic approach of sex which give women the look of little girls...and should therefore not seem attractive at all to mature men. Because grown up girls, that is mature women (as are men for that matter) distinguish themselves from kids fundamentally by those secondary sexual characters to which hairs belong. If I may draw my purpose to a personal experience, I clearly remember my strong and still vivid emotion at twelve or thirteen years of age, being on a beach and suddenly noticing by a lady coming out of the water, this distinct ray of a little bundle of dark hairs sticking to her legs on the both sides of her bathing suit. I still have this little heartbeat when I come to think of it. And as you may have seen it, one of the most marvelous and delightful French paintings of feminity is the piece by Gustave Courbet "The origin of the world" (1866) that you can find today at the museum d'Orsay in Paris. And you bet the lady wasn't shaved!! Are there any opinions on this topic??
Chris

blissed · 28-08-08 11:16:44

If a woman shaves her pubic hair she doesn't look like a little girl, in the same way that if I shave my beard I don't look like a little boy, I prefer the look of shaved pubic hair myself.

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chmchrischm · 28-08-08 12:17:54

Thank you Blissed for this quick first reaction. I am not sure if the comparison with men's beards goes really to the point.. Would you for instance consider a man's bold pubis attractive..? Besides, I am not sure that face and pubis share the same symbolic value as sex representations...Understand my purpose: I quite agree that there are personal preferences in corporal appearance - and appeal - and there are cultures, like in the Machrek (North africa) and the Maghreb where pubic shaving is common practice because it is a very old tradition - but mind you, a number of historians and psychologists point out to the effectively pedophilic root of this tradition.. Maybe I am wrong, but when in sex education classes, since not more than a few years now I quite often hear some young boys 14 y. literally shout out that an unshaved woman is just disgusting, I wonder where they come up with it. And within the social context, we note (here in Europe) on one side a generalized pedophilic tendency in publicities and marketing (bringing very young girls to show underwear as models, or selling strings for little girls..) and on the other hand we face an increase of non pubertal girls' abuses by adolescent boys, I can't prevent - and yet mind you, many of my feminine colleagues too, in the first place - to put all these threads together to put it in a shared bundle... There are, after all some psychosocial issues in our choices that we are entitled to think about - should it only be for that matter to conclude that we may not worry too much.
Sincerely,
Chris

blissed · 28-08-08 21:08:00

I don't find a mans shaved pubis attractive but then I don't find a mans hairy pubis attractive either :) but guys do shave there and there are women who like that. Face and pubis might not share the same symbolic value but they can get pretty close to each other ;)

Anyway, I think your right, I wouldn't worry too much it's only hair.

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Soberman · 28-08-08 22:58:25

There are some things that can be over analyzed and to pube or not to pube is one of them. I certainly wouldn't want a woman shaving or waxing on my account, risking knicks, ingrown hairs and razor burns. Deserts are just as beautiful as wooded glens, just different. I enjoy 'em all,

hyperballad · 29-08-08 03:25:28

I have never 'shaved' my pubic hair, I did however, until recently waxed a fair proportion of it off. Shaving is the devil, I never shave anything ever!

I will agree with chris though, I have never gone full bald as I do think this would make me feel like a little girl. Thats something I've always been quite certain of.

I started removing most of my pubes around the age of 18 or 19 and it was an adult 'sexy' thing to do - myself and my partner at the time were in a secure relationship and were experimenting with all kinds of different sexual stuff.

I just kept it up so to speak. Also doing modelling for adult magazines required it so I have haphazardly maintained a dragstrip in varying widths and lengths for about 5 years.

Until now. I am officially natural. I think for me body hair has been something 'shameful' and I would feel embarrassed about it in front of others. I realised a few months ago this stems from me hitting puberty hard and fast a long time before everyone else (the tender age of 11) and feeling different and like I wanted to hide the changes on my body...

Not anymore! I am one sexy lady with a pile of brunette hair in the right place. For me it has been something quite pschologically involved and I'm only really able to now have full pubic hair because I do feel comfortable and confident enough...

Although I don't know how common this sort of indepth thought to having pubes or not is. I have the tendancy to think I may be a bit of a freak in this regard. But I honestly don't know. The vast majority of my female friends do wax their pubic hair off for varying and seemingly harmless reasons, it could be something more. Who knows?

There should be some sort of national pubic hair survey or something

chmchrischm · 29-08-08 08:49:48

Hi, here I am again for a complement and trying to give you a more accurate view of my point. As an academic in the field of Public Health and particularly Sexual Health, I praise the possibility here to exchange views with people who are courageously and openly implicated in "the practical thing". So thank's a great deal to all and once again to Hyperballad for your detailed contribution. And you tackle the matter right where public health surveys question it... I'll pursue there after, just here a side comment: I am very much aware (and therefor all the more questionning and interested in diverse opinions) that there is nothing as "objectivity" and non-implicative questionning, and therefore prudent with interpretation of the the scientific "results" of studies and surveys. Scientific theories are always stained with a part of ideology - you can't help, they are produced by people! So, back to studies and surveys: they show two things, mainly. One is as Hyperballad pinpoints it right, at least by a group of the peolple who shave, and shave very early (I have kids in sex ed classes who openly tell having shaved right at the beginning of puberty!), an expression of fear or refusal to grow up or a difficulty to admit and cope with adulthood. Same as bending the shoulders forwards to try to "hide" breasts. The other aspect showed by these studies is a social pressure to "conformity" by boys on girls as a result of porn sites watching. As if they would thing that "it is THE thing to do to be sexy". And a great psychologist and psychoanalyst friend of mine (a woman) told me that some of her patients stopped shaving along the cure (not mainly turned to pubic shaving, naturally; this was only one small aspect of the evolution of theses patients!) as a result of her asking them to question themselves intimately about the sound reason why they at all started to and do it on... Which here again meets a point emerging from Hyperballad's comments. So you see, there may well be a point there..Thanks again to all of you and I wholeheartedly hope there will be more contributions.
Yours truly, Chris

chmchrischm · 29-08-08 11:08:07

And by the way dear Blissed, I do entirely share your view that a man's genitalia is nothing much attractive in comparison those of women, which are simply work of art. But this might be my old latinman culture of passionately loving feminity... Do take a look on Internet at this fabulous painting by Courbet called L'origine du monde (simply type it on a research motor), isn't it just breathtaking?
Wholeheartedly,
Chris

blissed · 29-08-08 13:30:32

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Orig … -World.jpg

Be interesting to see how that image would be viewed if it was simply a photograph taken yesterday. As an image I think the photo should command as much appreciation as the painting.

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chmchrischm · 29-08-08 14:52:31

Quite so, I agree. And to my knowledge, there only is one artist, photographer and painter who followed the path, in publishing a whole book of variations on the picture of Courbet. The peculiarity of this painting is to remains "shocking" to many up to these very days - so that it is almost hidden from public view in a back room of the Musée d'Orsay. And the great French psychoanalyst Jacques Lacan, who the public discovered after his death owned the painting whereas everybody thought it lost since the last war, was hiding it for forty years behind another painting showing a view in the..Alps!! And try and find anything similar in the whole of Western Art, starting with our Egyptian and Greek ancestors, go even back to the Babylonians - nothing. The art shows you a lot of men's genitalia, whereas womens' are reduced to a Y ! Try and show this painting around you, I mean to general people, your aunt and uncle, friends of your parents... and note the reactions... I've done it a lot of times, and even among my academic students in human sexuality quite a lot of them often admit being shocked! That's the very strength of this magnificent work of art!

hyperballad · 01-09-08 04:04:51

I think cocks (and balls) are incredibly pretty... Although it would seem I stand alone in this opinion so I seldom voice it. Shaved or unshaved I just love the shapes, skin tones and delicacy of mens genitalia.

Although my most recent partner removed all of his hair, bar a little trimmed patch above his penis. It was the first time I've been with someone who practically took all his pubic hair off and it was a huge turn on, although that may have been just because it was something different...

Don't get me wrong though, I think vaginas are simply divine too!

gala · 01-09-08 06:12:14

chmchrischm - This question has been brought up countless times on our Forums, so you might do better just doing a search about it. Those of us who have been here for a couple of years are probably pretty well through debating it and I know I cringe every time I see a new thread started about it. I'm quite sure I've put in my two cents about it in at least one of the many discussions we've had, so I won't repeat myself here.

I do find the whole 'male genitals are ugly, female genitals are art' thing to be endlessly irritating, however. I don't think there's anything inherently beautiful or hideous about either of them, personally, but I can see that through my culturally-conditioned lens as a human in modernity, there are things about both that are visually appealing to me. I probably find male genitals more visually interesting at this point in my life because I see much less of the male gender naked than I do the female. If the tables were turned and I worked on websites that celebrated male sexuality, it would probably be a different story. Supply and demand.

I do like to consider how we got to this stage, though, where the sentiment is that vulvas are a beautiful thing to be represented artistcally and praised in flowery prose, but the value of cocks is mostly utilitarian. It's disappointing to say the least. I don't think it does much for the advancement of women's sexuality, or of sexuality in general, to have that derogitory attitude, and I think it sucks that the resulting effect is that some men feel like their cocks aren't pretty. I've met a number of men who aren't really in love with their cocks because they have internalised some of that rubbish about them being ugly, and I think that can stand as an obstacle to self-appreciation, particularly on a sexual level. Fuck anything that does that.

blissed · 01-09-08 13:04:26

hyperballad wrote:

I think cocks (and balls) are incredibly pretty...

Thankyou! :) I think if everyone androsexual felt free to expressed themselves in the way you have, that would be really nice.

On a social forum I'm in someone posted a picture of his penis and I was asked to do the same. One of the women said if I was going to she'd like to see a shot of it flaccid with the foreskin pulled back and then a shot of it erect because it was interesting to see how much it would change, I never have, even tho over the last few years I've seen enough pictures of nearly every part of her in another place. I think part of it is I'm simply not as exhibitionist as her and I think everyone has the right to do no more than their comfortable with ( and I want money :) Lol J/K. But part of my discomfort was the negative social stigma surrounding cocks, partly created by the imposition and boasting nature of erect penis shots posted on the web, a bit like the way erotic images are stigmatized by all the dumb porn out there and I might be seen as predatory rather than someone who values friendship too and also even tho it's not a public forum, pics of my cock might be an imposition on some of the people who praps didn't want to see them there. But yeah I agree with Gala I think it would be nice to have a more cock friendly attitude, so I'm thinking about this again and I may take some pics and send them to her in a private message. ( If you happen to be reading this tho I don't want you to go building your hopes up :)

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hyperballad · 02-09-08 01:33:30

You're welcome Blissed

Usually my declarations of love towards cocks is met with general disdain, its quite refreshing to be listened to and have this point of view actually considered seriously.

*Smiles*

chmchrischm · 02-09-08 13:47:50

Back to Gala's remark, my point is just that because a subject is long debated doesn't mean that the matter is solved.. And besides, you must take into account that there are newcomers on the site and furthrmore that opinions are always nice to share, at any time. But I surely shall look over the previous debates of this topic on the forum. My concern is that in effect, we have being debating this topic over and over in a number of public and mental health forums, shared opinions of all sorts of professionals, sociologists, psychoanalysts, sexologists, philosophers, historians, ethicists and what not. But I am still looking up for a practical hint I could use in one of my tasks, sex ed in schools - and bet if I am questioned and if we debate there! So I wanted to have points of view from people around this website and I thank again very much (the few of) those who contributed. And sorry if it sound "réchauffé" as we say in french (heated up..?), but if you are bored, sorry for that, just drop it. And as to Hyperballad, gee, your naturality and spontaneity are just stunning! I love that!
See you folks,
Chris

gala · 02-09-08 14:45:01

I don't think there's anything to be solved and ambivalence is inevitable. I've watched it happen over and over on the same topic, it's never been anything but.

blissed · 02-09-08 15:11:17

chmchrischm wrote:

shared opinions of all sorts of professionals, sociologists, psychoanalysts, sexologists, philosophers, historians, ethicists and what not.

OMG! have I got to consult all those people before I can shave my pubes :) My opinions come under what not :)

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chmchrischm · 03-09-08 00:39:09

My interest here is WHY one does things, what meaning they have, known, wished or unconscious and what implications they may have in the social context. As Dr Françoise Dolto, the famous french childpsychoanalyst used to put it, "everything is language, everything is a sign" - but of what, fundamentally? This is what I would like to understand... We necessarily play social roles, our attitudes are not just "like that" but significative - but of what? I'm just bloody curious about life - and I have to, being in permanent contact with youths'questioning it, questioning the sense of it, of what they see, hear, feel, desire... :-)

blissed · 03-09-08 01:18:36

chmchrischm wrote:

My interest here is WHY one does things

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rciLxMnJL8

or sometimes it's just because you want to. You should read my paper "An analysis of free will as it pertains to pubic hair" :)

I think your looking for conclusive right answers when life has a fuzzy quantumness to it, ever changing with millions of points of view and ever growing or shrinking islands of consensus.

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Jonathan_Philips · 04-09-08 02:04:57

I'll just quickly add my tuppence (hey! I'm a Brit) worth on this.

First off, I have met several women in my life who think that pricks are aesthetically beautiful.

Secondly, I get annoyed by this sinister associating of shaved or waxed adult pussies with paedophilia. I prefer the look of a trimmed quim, a shaven haven or a waxed... um... thing, but that has nothing to do with me supposedly having a latent desire towards children and the suggestion is highly insulting. It is simply that they look prettier to me in that way.

It's just about personal taste, so there!

Last edited by Jonathan_Philips (04-09-08 02:05:55)

hyperballad · 04-09-08 05:46:25

Well Jonathan_Phillips as the proud owner of a vagina and pubic hair I hold the view that having it fully shaven makes me look like a little girl. I don't associate shaven or waxed pussies with paedophilia either, but I do associate my pubic hair with feeling like a woman.

And minus all of *my* pubic hair *i* feel like a prepubescent girl.

And as far as I can read no one was actually accusing those who do like shaven or waxed ladies are in fact paedophiles. Some people have expressed opinions, on a topic, in a forum online so what is said here shouldn't be taken as gospel.

And yes it is about personal taste, but take a chillax dude this is the internet.

chmchrischm · 04-09-08 09:18:14

Dear most interesting chatting partners, and especially dear Blissed, Hyperballad and Jonathan,
As having part of my academic duties to do research in my sexual health field,I am certainly aware of the innumerable diversity of human motivations and the difficulty to completely control these parameters - which is a major difficulty coming out with strong conclusions in social research. However, we live in such and individualistic social environment that people think that they are totally autonomous in a society appearing like a brownian crowd, and totally "free" of their choices. Just forgetting that we are social interrelated animals who give themselves rules and regulations (i.e. proscription, that is, Laws) to make SENSE of their existence. And what I am trying to sort out, throughout all the possible individual "explanations" people may give to their choices, is the social and cultural overall significance - and impacts - of these choices. And I do have to say that opening the debate last academic year with the group of my students (I teach at post-doc level, which means my students have an average age in their late twenties to early thirties) proved that there is a point here, since though few men, but a good 60% of the ladies present did consider that as a whole, social messages sent by selling strings for little girls, showing very young models in underwear ads or...pubic shaving do have an implicit paedophilic scent...At this level, individual choices are indifferent, because what you are looking for is global meaning. Now as to Jonathan's insulted feeling, I understand it well, since I have very close men around me who praise shaved women and I certainly do not consider them pedophiles and had to make it very clear to them! I am very sorry and have to say that there is a misunderstanding here: please Jonathan and for heaven's sake do not take it personally AT ALL. It has here absolutely nothing to do with personal matters and a social tendency and message DOES NOT directly and mechanically apply to individuals and doesn't imply the valuation of their choices in terms of good or bad! Because some smokers die of cancer or cardiovascular affections doesn't make of all smokers irresponsibles citizens or suicidal ones! Or smoking parents for that matter are by no way implicitly bad or criminal ones!! However the social significance of the liberties around smoking is a social and cultural message definitely inducing children and youth to cope with tobacco and endanger their lives. And let me express a very special dearly thank you once more to Hyperballad for all her personal qualities of cleverness, openness, good distance and fine feelingness in our Internet exchanges.
Chris

Jonathan_Philips · 04-09-08 11:26:05

hyperballad wrote:

Well Jonathan_Phillips as the proud owner of a vagina and pubic hair I hold the view that having it fully shaven makes me look like a little girl. I don't associate shaven or waxed pussies with paedophilia either, but I do associate my pubic hair with feeling like a woman.
And minus all of *my* pubic hair *i* feel like a prepubescent girl.
And as far as I can read no one was actually accusing those who do like shaven or waxed ladies are in fact paedophiles. Some people have expressed opinions, on a topic, in a forum online so what is said here shouldn't be taken as gospel.
And yes it is about personal taste, but take a chillax dude this is the internet.

Well hyperballad,

If you take a look at the original poster's submission again you will read this sentence: "BUT also in subtle and subliminal way to lean towards a pedophilic approach of sex which give women the look of little girls." I am well aware that he was merely speculating and my point was a general one that comes from having heard this thought raised several times in the past.

Nothing has been taken as gospel, I was merely responding to one man's viewpoint.

I am completely chilled thank you dudette and I am sorry if you misunderstood the tone of my message. Like you say: this is the internet and as we only have words on a screen to express ourselves sometimes they will be misinterpreted.

blissed · 06-09-08 21:15:15

hyperballad wrote:

You're welcome Blissed
Usually my declarations of love towards cocks is met with general disdain, its quite refreshing to be listened to and have this point of view actually considered seriously.
*Smiles*

Well I think you should see the latest entry in Sequoia's blog, I'm presuming she took the pic. http://sequoiaredd.net/

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hyperballad · 08-09-08 02:32:11

Haha. Thats awesome

I haven't looked at her blog before, but its great!

#1 28-08-08 10:30:52

Questionning the fashion of shaving ladies sexes

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