degrees of fantasy

gala · 12-02-08 11:51:39

Today someone was telling me about a fantasy in which he was fantasizing about what the person in his fantasy was fantasizing about. This made me think a bit - I'm not sure that I ever get that many degrees into the fantasy, or perhaps I do but just haven't been conscious of it before. It's an interesting thing to think about, though, and I thought it might be a point to consider for the folks around here. How many degrees into the fantasy do you get - how many people's heads do you get inside? I am definitely not soliciting detailed descriptions of particular fantasies - there are other sites for that - but am more interested in talking about how those fantasies are constructed.

NB: I am worried about the Forum. It used to be a lot more engaged, and some of the people who were part of that have disappeared, so we need to pick up for that, hey? Maybe we're in a lull, or maybe we're on a sinking ship...I don't want to sink!

Cate · 13-02-08 00:37:07

I don't want you to drown my darling so I'm here to try and drag this ship to shore.

I have to admit that I have tendency to fantasize over fantasies that I assign to other people. I imagine their possible fantasies and desires, and the ones I wish they had. I think about how they fantasise over me and how they want to do the things I want them to do to me.
I find that this type of fantasy occurs more when I'm already intimate with someone rather than over strangers. It's definitly encourged by people telling me their fantasies and then just allowing myself to elaborate and alter them so they suit what I want. I think I make everyone just a little bit more depraved than what they are.

Endtroducing · 13-02-08 01:00:38

I agree with Cate on this one, although she put it a whole lot more eloquently to how I probably could have! I think...alot, I like to imagine what goes on inside other peoples heads just in a day-to-day kind of way anyways, the human mind intrigues me. If I'm attracted to somebody, whether they're aware of it or not, I like to imagine them thinking dirty thoughts, the more dirty I imagine them to be thinking, the more I'll get turned on by them. I find it really sexy just knowing that someone can think that way and it isn't just me! In answer to the initial question of what degree it can venture to, I think it can only really go as far as me fantasising over what another person is potentially fantasising about, further than that just leaves too much scope for confusion in my opinion, which defeats the original object.

gala · 13-02-08 04:40:46

As it happens, Cate, the person who was telling me about this whole 'degrees' thing does the same thing you're describing - he fantasises about someone else fantasising about him. He feels that this is vain. I'm not sure it is - I'm not sure that you can really make character judgments about anyone based on what happens in her/his fantasies, though Freud might argue about that and I'd probably just tell him he's right because he's the sort who always has to be right, even if he's wrong.

I want to hear from someone who gets another degree into it, as I agree that it's a bit complicated to get that far and I want to know how you could still have an orgasm if you did that. If indeed you were wanking...which you may not necessarily be.

I used to fantasise a lot about my partner watching porn, so part of what I would think about was which images or people or acts would actually be the ones that would push him over into orgasm. It wasn't the image on the screen that I was interested in, though - I wasn't getting off to that image - it was the psychology of that delicate balance in his head between the image, the arousal, and the orgasm. I always felt a bit weird about this one, but I suppose it's just as valid as any other.

nihpuad · 13-02-08 05:43:13

gala wrote:

NB: I am worried about the Forum.

Whenever somebody makes one of these "this forum is dying" posts, I feel personally responsible to jump in and post something. How's that for vain? To think I'm the one who must save the day?

The problem in this particular case is that I don't really fantasize at all. I mean, sometimes I'll mentally reconstitute a real event, or some actual erotic image I've seen (including a few of my favorite IFM vids) -- sort of like playing back a virtual videotape in my head -- but I really almost never create any sort of fictional erotic scenario for myself.

I suppose I could claim to be concrete and rooted in the actual; I'm afraid it's really just a failure of imagination.

momentextase · 13-02-08 21:27:28

I really wish I had more time to post to this forum Gala, but I travel so much and to places where internet connections are so scarce it is difficult, and I tend to post very sporadically. But I do appreciate this forum, lurk as much as I can even though posting is hard, and I share your concern.

On this topic, I can get to the first degree, and the way I go to, or approach the second degree interests me as I think about it. I get turned on thinking of someone having a fantasy about me as I have a fantasy about them, but get most turned on by that thought alone, as if knowing what the content of their fantasy about me would spoil things...perhaps this keeps every possibility open in my mind and that by itself is the most delicious thought.? Are they having a really soft, sensual fantasy about me? Are they tying me up and wickedly using me for strap-on fun? Are they having a fantasy about someone else having a fantasy about both of us?? Gads! Hall of mirrors!

When having a fantasy about someone having a fantasy about me, not going into any of the content of their fantasy about me seems to float my boat the best. Not to mention I am so simple that it is also less complex and confusing.

Thinking of going to any more degrees of fantasy quite boggles my mind!! As does the very pervy thought I am now having about "Six degrees of Separation" in relation to sexual fantasy and degrees of fantasy.

Hippolytus · 14-03-08 06:13:33

Well Gala, this is an interesting one. I am not sure if this falls in the right category - it's quite a mind trip, this concept - but I had an interesting fantasy the other day which relates to a medical theory about female anatomy dating back from the middle ages, ie, the vagina is a sheath for the penis, or an internal, empty penis. I imagined someone fucking me and by doing so took on their penis, it filled "mine", and we were two penii, so I took on the force of it (them) rather than being a surrounding entity. It was a weird fantasy because it was definitely a cerebral thing and not about any actual sensation nor normal knowledge of my own anatomy. I was thinking about it afterwards and wondered if it could be classified as a penetration fantasy. It was a strange area of my sexuality that has never been entered upon before, and I think it was the closest I have come to what you are describing here. Other than that it has been standard fantasies of imagining being my ex-partner (a while since I had that one!) with another girl and what it would feel like for him, and getting off on what I imagined would be getting him off. Perverse as it seems it helped me get over any residual jealousy and him! Not really sure if we are on the same page though.. But I've never imagined someone fantasising about me and fantasised about them fantasising, but I think I might give it a try now. The best thing about hearing other people''s thoughts and experiences of sexuality is that it makes you expand your own concept of what is possible - both externally (for others) and internally (for one's self) - and keeps the journey moving, rather than stagnating. When sexuality becomes something you do, rather than just what happens to you, then that's when it becomes truly exciting. I'll try to post more on these forums too, even if sometimes it is just to be a larrikin or an ignoramus... or provocatueur in general!

ssmithford · 13-04-08 08:15:20

Been a while since anyone posted to this thread. But here I go:

I do a lot of writing. (A lot!) And a considerable amount of it is adult content. When I'm not at my keyboard and start a fantasy I tend to go with whomever it is I'm writing about at the time. (Adult or not.) And take it from several different views. One of the things I do as a writer - and has carried over into my fantasy life - is to take the same scene and write it 5 or 6 times until I find the right viewpoint.

Sometimes that viewpoint in my fantasy is the character closest to me. Sometimes it's a throw away character - someone who has 1 or 2 lines in the story. And sometimes it's someone who has just walked into the situation.

It really depends on which fantasy viewpoint gets that internal 'Oh, Yeah!' spark going.

I'll probably regret this, but....if any of you want to read what I've written you can email me at ms.smithford @ gmail.com

blissed · 13-04-08 21:01:30

Oops you're the second person to put their email in full, tsch tsch :) I've done the same to yours as I did to dandman and put a space either side of the @

All people have to do is copy and paste and remove the spaces. I've always been advised to do that because spammers use bots to search internet pages for email addresses and the bot then spams you automatically.

Anyway, I enjoy writing short adult fiction as well, and when I do, I get a double helping of pleasure because I enjoy writing the story and I get horny too :)

Welcome to the forum ssmithford.

.

kirejos · 07-05-08 18:57:10

Great topic gala,

Geez, where do I begin? First of all, this thread is proof that the most important sexual organ is the brain. Without joking, one could say that we live to fantasize, and fantasize to live. I know I do. I'm talking about life in general here. Most of us are constantly fantasizing, about the future, our hopes and dreams, etc. When it comes to sexual desire, many degrees of fantasy are only natural, considering how good we are at fantasizing in general. One could say that humans are fantasy experts. It's one thing that makes our brain so remarkable. Human sexuality is so beautiful, and complex, I'm sure most people experience many degrees of fantasy without even realizing it.

I definitely experience degrees of fantasy most of the time. It's one reason why I love to watch women masturbate. A big turn-on about it for me, is imagining what she's imagining. In other words, watching her think and masturbate. Imagining what might be going on in her mind, what might be getting her so turned on. As far as I'm concerned, those are degrees, or layers if you will, of fantasy. I have no use whatsoever for porn, or fantasies that are just plain images, or bodies without some sort of cerebral dimension. For me, if I can't see a person's face, it does nothing for me.

Intimate conversations with a partner can be just as much of a turn-on as anything else. Sharing fantasies. So when it comes time to fantasizing about them fantasizing, you really do know what they're fantasizing about. Or "talking off" a partner while they masturbate. Literally providing the fantasy for them, and then listening. Adding the whole dimension of communication, and gesture.

Consider the flirtatious/provocative evening out with someone you're attracted to. How can you not imagine that that person feels the same way about you? I don't think fantasizing about someone else fantasizing about you is vain at all, I think it's totally natural.

Whew.....all this talk about fantasizing is making me think now. If two people believe in astral projection, and timed it right, they could plan a fantasy "date" in space, and make the "fantasizing about the person fantasizing about me", actually real.....

Although, I guess it wouldn't just be a fantasy anymore then, would it.....

artist_chica · 07-05-08 23:05:28

kirejos wrote:

Whew.....all this talk about fantasizing is making me think now. If two people believe in astral projection, and timed it right, they could plan a fantasy "date" in space, and make the "fantasizing about the person fantasizing about me"

This is a fantastic idea! Now who would like to try it with me?

momentextase · 10-05-08 10:00:51

artist_chica wrote:

kirejos wrote:
Whew.....all this talk about fantasizing is making me think now. If two people believe in astral projection, and timed it right, they could plan a fantasy "date" in space, and make the "fantasizing about the person fantasizing about me"
This is a fantastic idea! Now who would like to try it with me?

Moi! Moi! Moi!

chica, why do I have such a strong hunch you would be a natural when it comes to astral sex. lol!

In college, I became so ill the nurse confined me to the infirmary. I could not sleep very well, one night I was "counting sheep" trying to get to sleep and a "vibration" started in my body, which got stronger and stronger, it felt like an electric current. It freaked me out, I tried to move and found I was paralyzed. Panic set in as I felt trapped in this "vibration." Finally I "broke out" of it, in a sweat! I was terrified, and thought I was going to die.

THEN- this happened again the next day, again I panicked, I remember being frozen, staring at the light fixture on the ceiling, trying like hell to move anything at all and "un-paralyze" myself...but the next thing I knew, I was on the ceiling looking down on myself. Not only that... but then "beings" began to come to me, they all wanted to know what I was doing -so I explained I had no idea and I was ill. That seemed to calm them down, and they told me to tell whoever had built the infirmary to remove it. Then I "crashed" down "into" myself, and broke out of this "spell" again. I reported this all to the nurse, she admonished me about taking LSD or smoking pot in the infirmary and when I was sick. When I objected strenuously to that false accusation, she said "well, probably it was just the fever". Typical.

This whole thing really shook me up. I told some friends about it, they thought I was crazy or high (as you all might about now). When I was well again, I decided to take a leave to go hang out in the most healing place I know of-the Grand Canyon. (My cure for anything actually). A problem- I had to explain why I wanted this "leave of absence" to the President of our very tiny college. In addition to being a scholar, a former member of Her Majesty's Diplomatic Service specializing in Southeast Asian affairs-he had been a fighter pilot in the RAF. He was also my mentor and adviser.

I explained I wanted a leave -"just because." That went over like a lead baloon, and he slowly pried the whole story out of me. I was expecting derision of an unimaginable magnitude from this old "stiff upper lipped" Brit- but his reaction was very serious. He told me with raised eyebrows; "You do know, do you not -that the infirmary was built on an old Indian burial ground? Quite a cock up that." I was shocked.

He went on to tell me of an accident he had flying a post war British jet, the controls went out and he had to bail out at very low altitude right on the coast (no ejection seat on this early jet) and he was knocked unconscious when he hit the ground. He said he woke up on the beach, and his plane was in a wreaked pile a few hundred yards from where he was, he got up and walked over to it. On the ground beside the plane, about 50 feet away he saw a body. He said he knew his fighter was a single seater, and a terror came over him, but he had to go look anyway. As he had suspected, when he looked at the pilots face- it was himself. Then, he said he felt himself "slip" back into his body- a great pain came over him and he heard the sounds of sirens, things went black and the next thing he knew he woke up in the hospital with a broken shoulder, etc. His parachute was intact and unused.

He told me to take as much time off as I felt I needed. An amazing meeting, I was flabbergasted... but elated too, that this gent who was such a picture of British tradition and convention had such a similar experience, and told me about it. It felt rather profound, and it was his way of telling me I was not crazy (any crazier than him anyway...:)

Soon after that, on Horseshoe Mesa in the Grand Canyon, I met someone. We became friends, I told them about my "experience" They told me about a book they had read they had ordered from the Whole Earth Catalogue, it was by Robert Monroe, it was called "Journeys out of the Body." I ordered my own copy. It was an epifiny.

Monroe wrote two other books, "Far Journeys"and 'Ultimate Journey."

Monroe's description of the "feel" of OBE's tracked my own nearly perfectly, especially the 'discovery" parts. Monroe mentions astral sex in each book as I recall, its been a long time since I read them, but they are the place to start if you are interested in out of body experiences. Another resource is Robert Bruce, and one of his that is specific to astral sex is :
http://www.spiritual.com.au/articles/as … -sex-1.htm

My own experiences is: Like it or not, believe it or not, we are all spiritual beings. Astral sex is about 100 times more powerful and intense than physical sex. Because -as in many types of Yoga, energys from the ''root" or "grounded" energy centers rise to form vibrational states with what can be called the "spiritual energy centers." I believe Yoga and specifically tantra take you in the same direction, but "so called" astral sex is different in that the mind/body is "not in the way" as much of how those energies rise, combine with and amplify each other. If it was, you could not "project" at all. Put another and simpler (and therefore more accurate) way: The spirit is set free. The sex is like a magic carpet... that takes you to a place so wonderful you can't imagine it. So...its not about the sex per se after all, its about that place...that "state". "I and Thou" comes to mind, by Martin Buber.. still that does paint the whole picture either. You just have to go there to see.

Also, intention is everything. I could go on and on, save to say... take the time to investigate Monroe and his students if this interests you, a yoga background helps a lot I feel. I was terrified at first when something accidently happened-so whatever you do, and however you do it remember this: Fear is the great barrier to human growth. Spirits have equal power. We are all connected. Another thing, it is possible (though it requires great skill, the mind/body seems to block the projection unless there is great intention and focus) to have "astral sex" even if you are only a few feet, inches or micrometers apart. You can do that while having physical sex actually (some may disagree), and I imagine more than a few lovers may have done this and did not even realize they did!!!

Anyone ever have any uncommonly intense experiences, ones where you become sexual energy... and more... itself??

blissed · 10-05-08 13:06:42

In the talk I posted here Jill Bolte Taylor explained that when she had a stroke she couldn't recognize her body as her own and she kept drifting off into a euphoric state, her experience had a lot of the components of an out of body experience and I may be wrong but those experiences usually seem to be a result of illness or injury too. We actually know very little about the brain or it's circuitry and so nothing yet about how it may be connected to others or it's environment beyond the obvious senses, but we do have a feeling for whats going on around us sometimes and some of that information seems to come from nowhere. Thanks for telling your story momentextase it's an interesting subject.

Prof. Blissed

.

phexy · 12-05-08 04:21:52

Totally fascinating guys, thanks. This subject has always interested me - the fact that someone very ill or in intense amounts of pain can be 'released' from their body or hallucinate. I heard about a guy who was trekking through the snow in freezing conditions and his back pack had gradually lifted his jumper up his back without him noticing. This caused him to suffer sever hypothermia. He said to another trekker he was with that he needed to sit down for a bit and he would catch up soon. The other trekker asked him "why?" obvoiusly concerned by the dazed expression on his face. The hypothermic trekker then responded, "because I just want to watch this pink giraffe for a while. It's so beautiful."!!!!

I see out-of-body experiences as being something associated with our often underestimated ability to see our own faults of which we usually aren't aware of in our day-to-day life. By seeing, or being made aware of our faults, we are therefore able to become better people, or a better person in our own opinion at least.

I'm not religious in the slightest, however I do believe in spirituality. One of my favourite sayings is, "Religion is for those who believe in hell. Spirituality is for those who've already been there".

And on a lighter topic re: unexpected sexual experiences, some of my most intense orgasms are those that wake me in the middle of the night. Annoyed the hell our of my ex, I tell ya what! And not because it would wake him up as well, but probably because he was jealous I could have such an intense, body-jolting orgasm with no hands, no help, no touching... just with whatever was going on in my head. It's amazing the power of the human mind...

xx

kitkat · 15-05-08 03:03:30

"Intimate conversations with a partner can be just as much of a turn-on as anything else. Sharing fantasies. So when it comes time to fantasizing about them fantasizing, you really do know what they're fantasizing about. Or "talking off" a partner while they masturbate. Literally providing the fantasy for them, and then listening. Adding the whole dimension of communication, and gesture."

Lately this has been a theme in my love life... in fact.. due to recent circumstances my libido has bitten the dust and I"ve found that the simple act of talking about sex and fantasies with my partner goes a long way towards arousing me and stirring up my sensibilities. It also makes me feel closer to my partner and less pressure to be sexual, and to still feel viable as a woman in that way. But I think one of the nicest things about it is that it seems to have an expansiveness about it... like it opens things up inside in a way that just the act of sex cannot.. difficult to explain - perhaps it creates a landscape, much like maybe the astral dimension spoken of here in this thread. A mutual landscape I think is the key here- we all have individual fantasy landscapes.. and when you share them suddenly you are travelling with a friend.. and the journey becomes more exciting and more memorable, and perhaps better felt? And you know each other better too.

Last edited by kitkat (15-05-08 03:04:37)

kitkat · 15-05-08 05:10:44

I have often wondered too about the dream state, and that perhaps we go to a different dimension in them.. I think the world is a lot more mysterious then has ever been supposed and I've had enough supernatural experiences and "coincidences" to consider them actually normal rather than crazy, and such intense physical experiences in dreams to assume that I am actually experiencing them. I"ve also had mind boggling sexual experiences where it seems that there is no division between my body and my partner"s as though we were blended or fused.. I'd like to spend a great deal more time exploring things like tantra and out of body experiences.. at this stage I don't have much to add to this discussion but it is certainly food for thought. And fascinating.

catalinamaria · 27-05-08 16:40:04

I love to hear what partners fantasize about me. I enjoy listening to them. I love to try to make it happen, such as simply masturbating in front of them, posing and getting excited by my own playing. Someone's fantasies was for instance taking me to a sexmovie theater. Which I agreed to do without really knowing how it was going to be (so many men, I was the only woman i think). Having sex on the seats was both exciting and frightening for me but I got really turned on when we both went to a cabin and showed ourselves through a half closed window. I suddenly got so carried away. The end of it was a real turn off though!
Well, anyway, the conclusion often is that fantasies that cross the mind are sometimes (sometimes!!) just tiny parts of an imagined action with hardly any consideration for the realistic background. My best experiences leaving cherished fantasies are probably my years in college. They all comingle when I need them and I love them.

ZPDR9ndw · 27-05-08 22:51:00

Hmmmmmmm...Fantasizing about what the person you are fantasizing about is fantasizing about?????
Argentina's greatest writer, Jorge Luis Borges, was a great metaphysical thinker and storyteller. He once wrote a story, (the title escapes me now) about someone who was dreaming about someone who was also dreaming and then...the second dreamer suddenly wakes up!
Gala's scenario that began this thread sounds like a Hollywood "pitch" for an adaption of the great master's story.
Wouldn't we all be more accomplished lovers if we did indeed fantasized about our partner's fantasies? And wouldn't we all be even greater lovers if our partners gave us some unfinished threads of their fantasies to work our own magic with?
Can't wait for the movie, Gala! I'm just guessing that it might have a little sex in it...

David
Las Vegas

dandan · 03-06-08 09:35:11

I don't think it's in any way vain to fantasize about being fantasized about. We all want to be liked, after all. It may be vain if you don't have any particular feelings about the person, I suppose, but if you're emotionally involved with a person, I think it's a huge rush to imagine them desiring you so strongly that they are compelled to masturbate. It deepends on the relationship (assuming one exists). I happen to believe that two partners who are more aroused by putting their focus on the pleasure of their partner than one themselves, that whole give and take aspect. So to me it seems natural that one would fantasize about someone fantasizing back at oneself.

#1 12-02-08 11:51:39

degrees of fantasy

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