#1 28-08-23 14:58:25

maurice_B

Member

Registered: 02-01-17

Posts: 130

Paulita Pappel on feminist porn and sex positivity

Some of you may be familiar with the alt porn producer Paulita Pappel who once modeled as Lulu for Abbywinters (not sure if also for any of the Feck sites). Paulita recently did an interview with a German newspaper that I found inspiring enough to post it here as it seems to capture much of the essence of ethical porn. I've run the text by DeepL and then edited it somewhat for accuracy, omitting a couple of questions that refer to the legal situation in Germany. (Don't be too hard on me in case of any remaining mistakes, English still isn't my mother tongue.) German speakers may use the original link: https://taz.de/Paulita-Pappel-ueber-Por … /!5952787/

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Consent is like a muscle

Paulita Pappel is a feminist porn producer and book author. What does her version of a sex-positive world look like?

Q: Paulita, we met for an interview about five years ago. At the time, the alternative porn scene was experiencing a public boost. What has happened since then?

A: A lot, I would say. Porn is becoming more socially acceptable, more is being written about it. And the questions have changed. In the past, I was often asked: Why is what you do – feminist pornography – better? Now I have the feeling that the conversations have become more complex.

Q: What's problematic about the question?

A: It starts from the premise that anything else, that is, what is often called mainstream pornography, would be bad, wrong, or terrible. But this dichotomy only reinforces a discourse that keeps an entire industry – with the exception of the niche that labels itself precisely as alternative or feminist – trapped in a ‘dirty corner’.

Q: By dirty corner, do you mean the accusation that women are treated badly or even abused in the porn industry and that it reproduces sexist stereotypes?

A: Yes, the debate surrounding the 2015 documentary "Hot Girls Wanted" is a good example of this. The filmmaker follows a couple of young amateur porn actresses. However, the documentary only shows a tiny section of the porn industry, but it's portrayed as representative of the entire industry - with the blanket message, "That's how bad the porn industry is." That was tendentious and unfair. As a result, there was a lot of protest, and so a more nuanced remake was shot for Netflix in 2017.

Q: What exactly was criticized?

A: Representatives of the industry, but also journalists, have pointed out that exploitation and abuse of power take place everywhere, including in the porn industry - but no more than in other industries. It is wrong to reduce an entire industry to this and to apply double standards. The fault here is in the system, not the industry.

Q: You founded "Lustery," an online platform for amateur pornography, in 2016 and "Hardwerk," a platform for hardcore porn, or gangbangs, in 2020. Both companies are described as feminist in the industry and the media. But on their websites, the term is hidden at best. Why?

A: Feminist pornography is first and foremost a self-definition. In practice this can take on a lot of different meanings. On the websites, we convey through the product what we do and according to what principles. For me, feminist pornography means celebrating sexuality while dealing critically with social role attributions and power relations. In terms of working conditions, it's the same three pillars that ideally should apply to the entire film industry: communication, transparency and consent.

Q: Speaking of consent on set, you also trained as an intimacy coordinator for ‘normal’ film shoots. What do you do there exactly?

A: In the porn film industry, this job has existed for a long time. In the conventional film industry, I supervise the artistic and technical aspects of intimate film scenes and mediate between the interests of the actors and those of the directors. For example, I make sure that actors are not pushed to go beyond their limits. We also do consensual exercises for this. In a ‘normal’ film, everything except kissing is simulated. For a sex scene, a precise choreography is worked out. Then intimate body parts are covered. There are scenes that look totally passionate in the film, but where the bodies barely touched during the shoot. However, this job is often difficult and that is also due to the general interaction there.

Q: What's that like?

A: Nobody ever believes it, but I experience the film industry as much more sexist than the porn industry. In my first assignments as an intimacy coordinator under my screen name Paulita Pappel I wasn’t taken seriously by the team, sometimes even bullied. Things improved once I started using my real name for this job.

Q: Why is that?

A: Precisely because sexuality is at the center of everything in the porn industry, people communicate very consciously and also talk about communication itself. In the film industry, most people are not used to talking about sexuality in a professional context. Also, the power imbalances are greater. Sexual assault is an everyday occurrence and hardly anyone dares to talk about it.

Q: These consensual exercises, how do they work?

A: There are many different ones. We can do one, if you like?

Q: What, right now?

A: Yes, we’ll do a very reduced version: I’ll ask you right now if I can touch you in a certain place and you say no. You don't tell me why, you don't excuse yourself, you just say no. Are you ready?

Q: Okay.

A: Nora, can I stroke your back?

Q: No.

A: Okay, thank you. That would be the beginning and then we would repeat the exercise a few times with different scenarios. For example, you might say, "Okay, on the back, but how?" And I would say, "Just with two fingers, very lightly, for three seconds." So we would then negotiate your exact boundaries.

Q: There is always a dispute about what exactly consent means and how to achieve it ...

A: Yes, there's a big misunderstanding and people who say, "I guess you're not even allowed to touch other people now." That puts you in a prudish corner. But it's not about not touching each other anymore, it's about the communication around it. And that can, of course, also take place non-verbally through body language, facial expressions and gestures. For example, there are people – often men – who think they're super enlightened and attack you with "May I kiss you?" when they're already only an inch away from your face. That is so fucking unsexy. Understanding is like a muscle. You have to train it. Preferably from an early age.

Q: What about young people and their sex education? What role does porn play in it?

A: Porn produced explicitly for this purpose could very well contribute to pleasure-oriented sex education. But youth protection is regulated in a counterproductive way, and that's bad for sex education – and for the industry. In Germany, for example, only adults are meant to have access to pornography; in Switzerland, at least, the legal age is 16. But curiosity about one's own body and that of other people starts at the age of 13 or 14, and this curiosity should be nurtured pedagogically. Another problem is that sex educators make themselves liable to prosecution if they name specific platforms such as Pornhub, even though many young people consume pornography there and it could be a good place to start their sex education.

Q: What could be the solution to the youth protection problem?

A: We've already done a lot of research on this. Voluntary self-regulation would be good, along the lines of the film industry. Another way – and we're leaning more toward this – would be to get the manufacturers of smartphones, tablets and laptops to set up filters on their devices that parents can adjust. And then everyone has to work together to mark the content accordingly, including porn producers, platform operators, and app programmers.

Q: And politics?

A: Policymakers need to strong-arm the big tech companies. This has already worked at the EU level with the standardization of charging cables. They should also take serious action against illegal platforms and piracy, while at the same time supporting those who want to do things better. But above all, social prejudices need to be done away with and people have to be willing to pay a price for good porn.

Q: What kind of prejudices do you mean?

A: For example, there is always the rumor that pornography consumption can be addictive. Of course, people of all ages can have an unhealthy, compulsive approach to porn, just as they can to any other media or consumer product, but there is no scientific basis for the porn addiction thesis. Moreover, the debate often ends at this point, although entirely different questions could or should be asked. For example: What does it do to us to grow up in a society that says the depiction of sexuality is smutty, wrong, somehow dangerous?

Q: Why does the taboo persist so stubbornly, even among the enlightened?

A: I think it's about an understanding of gender roles and sexuality where women are victims and men are driven animals, roughly speaking. And that just sits incredibly deep because it has given society a settled order for centuries. Of course, that’s been changing – in fact not just recently– because of feminism in particular. But those are still the relics of it. Moreover, people still tend to infantilize society.

Q: In what way?

A: On the subject of violence, for example. There was this discussion about shooting games for computers or consoles, out of fear that adults who play them might shoot real people at some point. In the meantime, we have established that this is generally nonsense and that people are very well able to distinguish between games and reality. But when it comes to violent pornography, an arbitrary line is still drawn.

Q: This is still a red rag in certain feminist circles. What do you say to them?

A: That non-consensual acts are never okay, and of course they must be prosecuted. There are also the appropriate laws for that. But here, too, you need to look closely. Violent pornography is not the same as rape; rather, it shows certain practices that involve violence and generate pleasure - for all participants, consensually.

Q: The rejection of pornography and sex work was central to the second wave of the feminist movement. Your mother was also part of it. How is that compatible with your profession?

A: I went with my mother to demonstrations with signs that said: Pornography is the theory, rape is the practice. But for me there was this ambivalence even as a teenager. Pornography simply fascinated me, despite my socialization. When I moved from Madrid to Berlin to study, I really enjoyed the anonymity here and was able to open myself up to this fascination.

Q: And then?

A: I studied queer feminist theory in college and met Marit Östberg, a porn producer who does queer porn. That's how I got my first role. Basically, I fit well into the ‘girl next door’ category. People often said I was so authentic, which they thought was good, but nothing about the scenes was really authentic, everything was heavily choreographed. That's how I later came up with the idea of founding the amateur platform "Lustery," where couples film themselves having sex.

Q: What is your mother's attitude towards your porn entrepreneurship today?

A: Totally positive. She even proudly tells others that I make porn. Whenever I hear that, it makes me tear up.

Q: Are you sometimes affected by hate speech?

A: Madita Oeming, the scientist, gets a lot more hate comments than I do. People can't get it together how an academic can seriously engage with pornography. I, on the other hand, am "just a porn actress", so socially I'm not worth anything anyway.

Q: Yet you have a degree in German philology and comparative literature and have now written a book. Has the book changed anything?

A: Yes, it has. I've been saying the same things over and over again for ten years, but only now do people really seem to listen to me. There's somehow a greater credibility. It's crazy, but it's also funny.

Q: Your book is called "Pornopositive" and one of the key messages is that it's not enough to be sex-positive. Are you heralding the fourth wave of feminism?

A: Mainstream feminism falls short. There is a sex-positive attitude, but there is still a void around the issues of sex work and pornography and a lack of solidarity towards sex workers. I don't want to dictate how someone fucks or if someone watches porn. I want the focus to be on what actually makes society unfree, and that is the fear of certain kinds of sexuality and the prejudices that fuel that fear.

Q: You write in the book that pornography has also enriched you privately. In what way?

A: I've gotten to know myself and my needs better, I've learned to express those needs and say no. I feel freer and more self-determined and I have a good relationship with my body. That's quite a lot.

Q: What would a world look like where everyone was sexually liberated?

A: Oh, that would be a great world! Pornography would be just another product on the entertainment market. Sex education would also teach communication and consent. There would be more spaces where people could freely express their sexuality without having to be ashamed or hide. People would think out loud on Sunday about whether they feel more like going to the soccer stadium or the sex club around the corner.

The person
Paulita Pappel, 35, grew up in Madrid and studied in Berlin.

The porn producer
Paulita has been working in the porn industry since her early twenties. Since 2013, she has been part of the board of trustees of the Berlin PornFilmFestival. In 2016 she founded the online platform Lustery, followed 4 years later by the platform Hardwerk. Her book "Pornopositiv" will be published on August 31.

Hangdog90

Member

Registered: 24-01-16

Posts: 1,469

Re: Paulita Pappel on feminist porn and sex positivity

Thanks for sharing this very interesting interview with Paulita Pappel.

Those who are interested might also enjoy a set of free podcasts on Audible called Lustery POV.

Listen to POV by Lustery by Aria Vega Paulita Pappel on Audible.

https://www.audible.co.uk/pd/B08K5Z7ZL3 … 021221000N