New Victoria Bateman Book

privignus · 25-02-23 01:27:46

Victoria Bateman, the gloriously eccentric English economist known for her naked protests, has launched a new book Naked Feminism: Breaking the Cult of Female Modesty (2023). That seems like it might be up the alley of some of the wonderful eccentric people at Feck? She also has thoughts on the mind/body dualism.

Is it right that, despite the promises of feminism, women’s bodies remain at the mercy of state, society and religion? Should a scantily clad woman, or a promiscuous one, be worth less than a fully covered woman, or a chaste one? Are being sexy and being smart really mutually exclusive? Can a woman be both body and brain? Victoria Bateman has confronted these questions with actions as well as words. She has appeared naked on national television, on stage, in art and at protests – using her body, as well as her brain, to deliver her message.
In Naked Feminism, Bateman makes a compelling case for women’s bodily freedom, and explains why the current puritanical revival is so dangerous for women. Illustrating the swinging pendulum of bodily modesty through the ages, she takes us on a journey from the ancient civilisations of Egypt and Babylon, through the birth of Christianity and Islam, to the lax morals of the medieval period and the bawdiness of Chaucer and Shakespeare; to the clampdowns of the Puritans and later the Victorians and, more recently, to the re-veiling of the Middle East and the purity pledges of modern-day America. She ends with a plea: feminists must unite to challenge the repression of the female body, as only then can women be truly free.

https://vimeo.com/vnbateman

https://www.nakedfeminism.com/

Last edited by privignus (25-02-23 01:28:21)

Hangdog90 · 25-02-23 19:54:52

privignus wrote:

Victoria Bateman, the gloriously eccentric English economist known for her naked protests, has launched a new book Naked Feminism: Breaking the Cult of Female Modesty (2023). That seems like it might be up the alley of some of the wonderful eccentric people at Feck? She also has thoughts on the mind/body dualism.
Is it right that, despite the promises of feminism, women’s bodies remain at the mercy of state, society and religion? Should a scantily clad woman, or a promiscuous one, be worth less than a fully covered woman, or a chaste one? Are being sexy and being smart really mutually exclusive? Can a woman be both body and brain? Victoria Bateman has confronted these questions with actions as well as words. She has appeared naked on national television, on stage, in art and at protests – using her body, as well as her brain, to deliver her message.
In Naked Feminism, Bateman makes a compelling case for women’s bodily freedom, and explains why the current puritanical revival is so dangerous for women. Illustrating the swinging pendulum of bodily modesty through the ages, she takes us on a journey from the ancient civilisations of Egypt and Babylon, through the birth of Christianity and Islam, to the lax morals of the medieval period and the bawdiness of Chaucer and Shakespeare; to the clampdowns of the Puritans and later the Victorians and, more recently, to the re-veiling of the Middle East and the purity pledges of modern-day America. She ends with a plea: feminists must unite to challenge the repression of the female body, as only then can women be truly free.
https://vimeo.com/vnbateman
https://www.nakedfeminism.com/

Interesting.

She asks : "Should a scantily clad woman, or a promiscuous one, be worth less than a fully covered woman, or a chaste one?"

In the age of Instagram and Onlyfans, a beautiful woman who chooses to be scantily clad and look promiscuous online, can make a huge amount of money and is worth more simply because she is prepared to parlay her beauty.

Take women's tennis as an example.

In the Romanian "La Fileu" podcast, WTA world number 39 Sorana Cirstea confessed what her former sponsor Adidas used to tell her.

"I remember when I had a contract with Adidas. They always told me, considering that I look good for a sportswoman, that" It's better to look good and be in the top 20, than not look good and be number 1".

When you're in the top 20, however you're seen, you're high and there's a crowd at every tournament. So they told me: "It's better to be beautiful and in the top 20, than... less beautiful and number 1"

You realize, they also have their quotas, it's a market", said Sorana in the podcast "La Fileu", hosted by the artist Speak.
According to the FreeDictionary, lookism is "prejudice or discrimination based on physical appearance, especially that which is considered to fall short of societal notions of beauty."

"In general, our contracts are international. You get paid based on how much you sell. The best paid are American, Chinese and Japanese women. Osaka kills it, she was in recent years the best paid sportswoman! Great Britain sells, so does Spain, France.

Eastern Europe doesn't really sell. It depends a lot on you, as a personality, what you inspire, how you present yourself," Sorana had previously said.

----------------------------------

The above report, from Claudiu Popp in Tennis World, would hardly be a surprise. Why do people deny human nature by suggesting that people who are not good-looking are the same as people who are?

Another recent example from tennis is the beautiful British teenager Emma Raducanu. After winning the US Open in a stunning run of wins from the qualifiers, the following 12 months were not great on the court for Emma. However off court, thanks to he beauty, she won a host of endorsements from world leading brands in the automobile, drinks and fashion sectors. Her off court earnings were double the $4.5 million that she won as US Open champion. This season, she won much less prize money but her off court earning grew so that she is the third highest paid tennis star.

According to The Sun , in the 12 months up to the end of May 2022, Raducanu earned £22.8million, placing third behind second place Serena Williams and Naomi Osaka, who is this year's highest paid female athlete at £46m. Just £2.8m of the teen's earnings have coming from tennis matches, and £1.8m came from her US Open win last year.

The remaining £20m comes from the multiple endorsements deals the teen secured over the last year. Her sponsors include multi-million-pound deals with luxury brands Tiffany & Co, Dior and Porsche. She has also become an ambassador for British Airways, Evian, Vodafone and HSBC

Raducanu's hotness is matched by her friendliness. She has a sunny smile and seems to get a buzz from spending time with fans. To be kind and beautiful is a wonderful, winning combination. When people like you, they follow you. That starts with beauty.

As a teen, I read Emmanuelle for the first time. At that time I read it for the beautifully written sex scenes, and it was my main masturbation inspiration. At that age, I was bored by a stretch of the second half of the book when there was a lot of philosophising about beauty and sex between Mario and Emmanuelle. But when I read the book later in life, I realised these ideas were important. One of them was that those of us who are lucky enough to be born beautiful have an obligation to exploit that beauty to the maximum.

From the book:

Mario leaned toward her.

‘In other words, if you want to deceive your husband, it’s not because he bores you, or-out: of weakness, or to take revenge on him; on the contrary, it’s because he makes you happy. It’s because he’s taught you to love what’s beautiful. To love the wonder of physical pleasure given by the penetration of a man’s body into the depths of yours.

He’s taught you that love is the dazzling of the senses that you feel when a man’s nakedness crushes yours. That which gives life its constantly reborn splendor is the movement of your hands toward your shoulders to make your dress fall down to your waist and uncover your breasts, and the movement of your hands toward your hips to make your dress fall down to your feet and turn you into a statue more adorable than any dream.

He’s taught you that beauty is not in the guarding of your body, but in its offering; not in your waiting for other hands to undress you, but in the haste and freedom of your own fingers creating a reality more human than the heritage of matter.’

richard · 26-02-23 00:28:34

You're taking the monetary definition of "value" here, which I'm not is what Bateman refers to. Who is held in higher esteem to the British public, Dame Judi Dench or the teenage tennis player? Or Phoebe Waller-Bridge? J.K. Rowling?

Hangdog90 · 26-02-23 04:32:54

richard wrote:

You're taking the monetary definition of "value" here, which I'm not is what Bateman refers to. Who is held in higher esteem to the British public, Dame Judi Dench or the teenage tennis player? Or Phoebe Waller-Bridge? J.K. Rowling?

You're not right here. Bateman was specifically speaking of women's bodies . The esteem of the public for the three women you mentioned has nothing to do with it.

Another example regarding talent versus looks:

England goalkeeper Mary Earps is shortlisted for European women's player of tbe year. She has 275,000 Instagram followers.

Swiss player Alisha Lehmann, far less decorated but famous for her looks, especially her hot ass, has 11.9 million followers on Instagram and here is what she has to say.

https://youtu.be/dd80F6R_FTM

Last edited by Hangdog90 (26-02-23 04:34:47)

richard · 26-02-23 05:06:10

I've only read the quotes above, not any of her books, but she seems to be asking whether women should be valued more highly if they have attractive bodies, compared, say, to powerful minds.

The quote: (not her words, but apparently a summary) "Should a scantily clad woman, or a promiscuous one, be worth less than a fully covered woman, or a chaste one? Are being sexy and being smart really mutually exclusive? Can a woman be both body and brain?" doesn't talk about the monetary value of the body, rather the value of a woman.

Hangdog90 wrote:

richard wrote:
You're taking the monetary definition of "value" here, which I'm not is what Bateman refers to. Who is held in higher esteem to the British public, Dame Judi Dench or the teenage tennis player? Or Phoebe Waller-Bridge? J.K. Rowling?
You're not right here. Bateman was specifically speaking of women's bodies . The esteem of the public for the three women you mentioned has nothing to do with it.
Another example regarding talent versus looks:
England goalkeeper Mary Earps is shortlisted for European women's player of tbe year. She has 275,000 Instagram followers.
Swiss player Alisha Lehmann, far less decorated but famous for her looks, especially her hot ass, has 11.9 million followers on Instagram and here is what she has to say.

https://youtu.be/dd80F6R_FTM

privignus · 26-02-23 05:35:16

I think she is also talking about how women in public in the rich English-speaking countries are aggressively judged for their clothing, grooming, parenting, and sexuality. Its still not uncommon for reporters to spend time analyzing and criticizing the dress of female politicians, or complaining when a TV documentary has a plain-looking older lady instead of a plain-looking older man as narrator. There have been cases in the USA where women were thrown out of higher education for doing sex work or nude modelling.

At a given level of fame, women are expected to spend much more effort cultivating their looks and performing exemplary parenting and respectable sexuality (married with children is good, a swarm of lovers and lawsuits about paternity or divorce are not). Its hard to imagine a female politician in the US or UK with the private life of Boris Johnson, Bill Clinton, or the previous US president.

Last edited by privignus (26-02-23 05:36:15)

privignus · 26-02-23 05:49:52

To pick another example, when a male professor had sex with an undergraduate student in his department, continued the affair while she did a second degree in his department, and participated in committees that hired her, it was the younger woman whose career was ended after the affair became public in divorce court; the older professor was just temporarily suspended. I only know of one case like that where the older supervisor was female and the younger student was male.

Last edited by privignus (26-02-23 05:51:44)

privignus · 27-02-23 01:35:40

Is topfreedom an issue in 'Straya? The right of women to go topless whenever men can go topless? I think that is the kind of thing that Victoria Bateman would call for.

richard · 27-02-23 02:35:41

privignus wrote:

Is topfreedom an issue in 'Straya? The right of women to go topless whenever men can go topless? I think that is the kind of thing that Victoria Bateman would call for.

Well I'm sure plenty would agree with the principle but not many have any interest in doing it. Legally speaking I doubt anyone would be arrested for it but they would be refused entry or asked to cover up in most venues.

Mikaela · 27-02-23 02:59:15

privignus wrote:

Is topfreedom an issue in 'Straya? The right of women to go topless whenever men can go topless? I think that is the kind of thing that Victoria Bateman would call for.

Legally speaking, it isn't illegal in Aus, as indecent exposure only refers to the genitals. Interestingly, there was a music festival that was held over New Years Eve in Victoria, Australia, where the police were trying to fine topless women for public nuisance.

privignus · 27-02-23 07:35:22

richard wrote:

privignus wrote:
Is topfreedom an issue in 'Straya? The right of women to go topless whenever men can go topless? I think that is the kind of thing that Victoria Bateman would call for.
Well I'm sure plenty would agree with the principle but not many have any interest in doing it. Legally speaking I doubt anyone would be arrested for it but they would be refused entry or asked to cover up in most venues.

Interesting, here are some examples from another country. The quote from a verdict in the 1990s is the kind of argument that Bateman complains about: women should cover any "part of the female body that is sexually stimulating to men both by sight and touch" (whereas men can presumably show off a nice ass or muscular abs). I don't know the situation in the UK.

Another common issue is nosy parkers objecting to breastfeeding in public.

Last edited by privignus (27-02-23 07:37:39)

privignus · 16-05-23 21:14:57

Be still my horny heart! Stoya interviewed Victoria Bateman https://reason.com/2023/05/16/the-naked-feminist/

Hangdog90 · 17-05-23 03:12:56

privignus wrote:

Be still my horny heart! Stoya interviewed Victoria Bateman https://reason.com/2023/05/16/the-naked-feminist/

Bateman is calling for a world in which people tolerare difference. How badly her book is needed at a time when the world is lurching towards the extremes, and sadly, how unlikely it is that the people who most need to consider this message will read her book.

To quote Bateman from Stoya's article:

"What I'm aiming for is a world in which every woman can make decisions about her own body in terms of the degree to which she covers or not, her body, what she does with her vagina, [and] what she does with her own fertility. I want every woman to be able to decide for herself. And that means to me, the sign of a liberal society is one in which you have variety. It is one in which you have women who are sunbathing topless, but where you also have women who are able to wear burkas and where you have women who are, say, rocket scientists, but also women who are sex workers."

Last edited by Hangdog90 (17-05-23 03:13:28)

#1 25-02-23 01:27:46

New Victoria Bateman Book

#2 25-02-23 19:54:52

Re: New Victoria Bateman Book

#3 26-02-23 00:28:34

Re: New Victoria Bateman Book

#4 26-02-23 04:32:54

Re: New Victoria Bateman Book

#5 26-02-23 05:06:10

Re: New Victoria Bateman Book

#6 26-02-23 05:35:16

Re: New Victoria Bateman Book

#7 26-02-23 05:49:52

Re: New Victoria Bateman Book

#8 27-02-23 01:35:40

Re: New Victoria Bateman Book

#9 27-02-23 02:35:41

Re: New Victoria Bateman Book

#10 27-02-23 02:59:15

Re: New Victoria Bateman Book

#11 27-02-23 07:35:22

Re: New Victoria Bateman Book

#12 16-05-23 21:14:57

Re: New Victoria Bateman Book

#13 17-05-23 03:12:56

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