Do we take our sexual freedom for granted?

MS2020 · 21-05-21 18:41:15

For those of us who've been fortunate enough to grow up in the age of information revolution, do we ever stop to think about what others didn't have? Since sexual knowledge became accessible at the push of a button, does it ever seems like too many have overlooked or not even realized how much more challenging it could be? This isn't meant to raise the age old question of "kids growing up too soon," though that certainly remains relevant. No the thing I want to address is how pursuing sexual knowledge and experience has changed for better or for worse. How previous generations took chances with potentially greater consequences and how we in recognizing this we may be better prepared to make more informed and rewarding decisions in the future.

Certainly I'm grateful to live in a time when systematic censorship of sex-pression is less common and support systems are widen and more inclusive. Yet I sometimes worry that too many don't know and can't appreciate what it's taken to get here.

I'll get into more specifics later, but for know I want to leave the floor open to read what others think about this. Have you considered how much more difficult it was to pursues yourself sexually in your parents or grandparents generation? Anything specific you've learned or things you still wonder about?

Last edited by MS2020 (24-05-21 21:47:17)

privignus · 24-05-21 02:56:09

Ooh, big complicated questions! My parents were young adults in the 1970s in that period after the pill and antibiotics but before Aids so maybe it is one I should not ask because I might not like the answer.

Two things I would call out are the availability of effective contraception and abortion to everyone in developed democratic countries from the 1960s and 1970s onwards, and the removal of active disinformation on topics like homosexuality or how to get a woman off. I don't think many younger people today appreciate how easy it was to be a male chauvinist pig into the 1960s and 1970s, or how much will it took to ignore the experts and listen to your partner about what got them off or your gay friends about how they are people not Freudian caricatures.

Today there is systematic censorship of bodies and reproduction and sex on corporate social media and in many areas of old media, but reliable information is available to anyone curious with a library card or an Internet connection. In say the 1920s it really depended on who you knew and whether you were in a social category which could work around the laws meant to keep information and tools away from undesirable.

Miss_Katia · 25-05-21 01:21:47

"Have you considered how much more difficult it was to pursues yourself sexually in your parents or grandparents generation?"

I think about this a lot MS. I feel very lucky to have been had access to information at an earlier age and be surrounded by sexually liberated individuals in my inner circles. I feel so much more sexually open, accepting, informed and liberated than my perceived understanding of others in my family and past generations. It's actually very sad to be honest. Especially the heavy layers of suppression and shaming no thanks to the patriarchal and religious influence (which is still very much present today, although varied in comparison)

MS2020 · 28-05-21 03:06:31

"I feel so much more sexually open, accepting, informed and liberated than my perceived understanding of others in my family and past generations."

Have you ever talked with your parents, grandparents, uncles, etc about their own experiences and how things were different for them? I know it's always awkward talking with family about sexual matters, but the stories can often be intriguing and rewarding

MS2020 · 28-05-21 03:27:02

Part of why I raised this question now is that May is both Mental Health Month and Masturbation Month. It's an odd coincidence that two things both so common and yet so commonly misunderstood are recognized at the same time of the year.

For the longest time masturbation was viewed as a source of madness and other aliments. Now it's often recommend as a treatment for physical and emotional problems.

That's maybe the biggest example I can think of how we're sexual advantaged today in a way too few realize. When I think of the horrifying symptoms that young people were warned would come from 'abusing themselves' and the horrifying contraptions that were needlessly placed upon them to keep it from happening, it's hard to imagine how some of them managed to function into adulthood. How did it shape them? Did it make the more prone to being abusive and controlling of there partners and children? Did they just keep up the practice through guilt and self-loathing? Did they find outer outlets and were they benign or more harmful? And if they gradually grew to accept themselves were did they find sources that could show them a more positive outlook?

Last edited by MS2020 (28-05-21 03:30:30)

Miss_Katia · 28-05-21 08:27:57

I haven't had in-depth talks with my family although I have heard stories about how things were. And I am so grateful we have progressed this far. Imagine how things will be for future generations 100 years from now! Argh, amazing!

Being the black sheep of the family (surprise, surprise), I see the positive impact my generational cycle breaking around things like sex and the shame attached to sex has been. And I hope to pass that onto future generations (age appropriate).
I also grew up largely shamed around body and sex. However as mentioned, I'm lucky to have been surrounded by some positive influences too.

And interesting connection you have made with it Mental Health Month AND Masturbation Month - ha!

“When I think of the horrifying symptoms that young people were warned would come from 'abusing themselves' and the horrifying contraptions that were needlessly placed upon them to keep it from happening, it's hard to imagine how some of them managed to function into adulthood. How did it shape them?”
This would be interesting to discuss with someone who experience this level of abuse. As complex as this subject and question is, I think the level of shaping would be heavily influenced by nature vs nurture. And their perceived right/wrong-ness surrounding it.

Miss_Katia · 28-05-21 08:29:20

Has your experience been similar MS?

MS2020 · 28-05-21 23:41:42

Miss_Katia wrote:

Has your experience been similar MS?

Do you mean similar to your own experience of learning Miss Katia or similar to that kind of abuse I described?

In the later case thank goodness no. In the former, it's hard to say. My parents were pretty open for the most part. I had access to useful books on puberty and got good sex education classes in school. But it's not like I was that comfortable talking to them about their own experiences growing up. Like most teenagers you didn't like to think of your older relatives as ever being sexual. Given my own struggles with anxiety and social responsiveness, I probably wouldn't have been great at raising question or long term listening than.

Not that I didn't get some interesting anecdotes as I grew over time. What's funny though is that my parents were a generation or two removed from each other. Like 25 year age difference. So I get both a GI generation perspective and a baby boomer perspective. In hindsight though, I wished I'd asked some of my other relatives about how relationships played out for them when they were still around and receptive.

I don't know that there's anyone alive now who can testify to the kind of abuse I was writing about. That period of anti-masturbation frenzy from the Victorian era to about the 1930s. Still many have faced other kinds shame, frustration, and confusion about self-pleasure.

Before exploring this further I have to ask Miss Katia: Have you watched Mad Men? Because I lot of what I've been meaning to write will be easier to understand depending on how much you're familiar. It's a frequent source of inspiration when it comes to the themes I'm exploring here. Namely changing culture expectations, standards, and perceptions over time.

Last edited by MS2020 (30-05-21 04:11:45)

Miss_Katia · 01-06-21 01:30:35

MS2020 wrote:

Miss_Katia wrote:
Has your experience been similar MS?
Do you mean similar to your own experience of learning Miss Katia or similar to that kind of abuse I described?
In the later case thank goodness no. In the former, it's hard to say. My parents were pretty open for the most part. I had access to useful books on puberty and got good sex education classes in school. But it's not like I was that comfortable talking to them about their own experiences growing up. Like most teenagers you didn't like to think of your older relatives as ever being sexual. Given my own struggles with anxiety and social responsiveness, I probably wouldn't have been great at raising question or long term listening than.
Not that I didn't get some interesting anecdotes as I grew over time. What's funny though is that my parents were a generation or two removed from each other. Like 25 year age difference. So I get both a GI generation perspective and a baby boomer perspective. In hindsight though, I wished I'd asked some of my other relatives about how relationships played out for them when they were still around and receptive.
I don't know that there's anyone alive now who can testify to the kind of abuse I was writing about. That period of anti-masturbation frenzy from the Victorian era to about the 1930s. Still many have faced other kinds shame, frustration, and confusion about self-pleasure.
Before exploring this further I have to ask Miss Katia: Have you watched Mad Men? Because I lot of what I've been meaning to write will be easier to understand depending on how much you're familiar. It's a frequent source of inspiration when it comes to the themes I'm exploring here. Namely changing culture expectations, standards, and perceptions over time.

In the former, and great to hear your parents were open MS.

No I haven’t watched Mad Men.

MS2020 · 04-06-21 04:31:31

Miss_Katia wrote:

MS2020 wrote:
Miss_Katia wrote:
Has your experience been similar MS?
Do you mean similar to your own experience of learning Miss Katia or similar to that kind of abuse I described?
In the later case thank goodness no. In the former, it's hard to say. My parents were pretty open for the most part. I had access to useful books on puberty and got good sex education classes in school. But it's not like I was that comfortable talking to them about their own experiences growing up. Like most teenagers you didn't like to think of your older relatives as ever being sexual. Given my own struggles with anxiety and social responsiveness, I probably wouldn't have been great at raising question or long term listening than.
Not that I didn't get some interesting anecdotes as I grew over time. What's funny though is that my parents were a generation or two removed from each other. Like 25 year age difference. So I get both a GI generation perspective and a baby boomer perspective. In hindsight though, I wished I'd asked some of my other relatives about how relationships played out for them when they were still around and receptive.
I don't know that there's anyone alive now who can testify to the kind of abuse I was writing about. That period of anti-masturbation frenzy from the Victorian era to about the 1930s. Still many have faced other kinds shame, frustration, and confusion about self-pleasure.
Before exploring this further I have to ask Miss Katia: Have you watched Mad Men? Because I lot of what I've been meaning to write will be easier to understand depending on how much you're familiar. It's a frequent source of inspiration when it comes to the themes I'm exploring here. Namely changing culture expectations, standards, and perceptions over time.
In the former, and great to hear your parents were open MS.
No I haven’t watched Mad Men.

Are you at least familiar with the premise and setting? I'm feeling ready to get to make my larger point without having to go through specific details of plot or character, but if you already know what it's about I don't want to sound redundant.

Miss_Katia · 04-06-21 09:26:02

MS2020 wrote:

Miss_Katia wrote:
MS2020 wrote:
Do you mean similar to your own experience of learning Miss Katia or similar to that kind of abuse I described?
In the later case thank goodness no. In the former, it's hard to say. My parents were pretty open for the most part. I had access to useful books on puberty and got good sex education classes in school. But it's not like I was that comfortable talking to them about their own experiences growing up. Like most teenagers you didn't like to think of your older relatives as ever being sexual. Given my own struggles with anxiety and social responsiveness, I probably wouldn't have been great at raising question or long term listening than.
Not that I didn't get some interesting anecdotes as I grew over time. What's funny though is that my parents were a generation or two removed from each other. Like 25 year age difference. So I get both a GI generation perspective and a baby boomer perspective. In hindsight though, I wished I'd asked some of my other relatives about how relationships played out for them when they were still around and receptive.
I don't know that there's anyone alive now who can testify to the kind of abuse I was writing about. That period of anti-masturbation frenzy from the Victorian era to about the 1930s. Still many have faced other kinds shame, frustration, and confusion about self-pleasure.
Before exploring this further I have to ask Miss Katia: Have you watched Mad Men? Because I lot of what I've been meaning to write will be easier to understand depending on how much you're familiar. It's a frequent source of inspiration when it comes to the themes I'm exploring here. Namely changing culture expectations, standards, and perceptions over time.
In the former, and great to hear your parents were open MS.
No I haven’t watched Mad Men.
Are you at least familiar with the premise and setting? I'm feeling ready to get to make my larger point without having to go through specific details of plot or character, but if you already know what it's about I don't want to sound redundant.

In the broad sense yes.

MS2020 · 05-06-21 04:24:33

There was one particular note worthy episode that dealt with a child getting caught masturbating and the hostile response from her mom that came with it. Mentioned in this article. Though unfortunately the link to the interview with now adult actress requires a New York Times subscription. https://www.marieclaire.com/celebrity/n … on-scenes/

A lot has already been talked about this scene. Articles with advise to parents today about how that situation can be better handled. The conflicting outlooks between the daughter who didn't think she did anything wrong and the mothers whose carrying over a lot of abuse tendencies and expectations from her won childhood. But what's striking to me is that's this long to even include these issues in a drama at all.

It's all the more poignant for being a series set in the 60s that partially exists for deliberate value dissonance. Sally Draper is both fortune and unfortunate for the kind of family and times that she lived in. I'm inclined to believe that probably grow up alright despite having so many reasons over the course of the series for years of therapy. (A lot has been said about this too, but I won't got over the many plot points here).

The thing is part of made her strong was a willingness to think for herself. In time when so many people (especially women and girls) were feed a lot of narrow expectations. That are all of ways one test the limits back than because the limits were so high (and sadly still our for some people). Yet just being willing to feel what we know call sex positive is one of the most overlooked of forms of resistance.

When I think of all the real life young people who dared to continue exploring the bodies and feelings despite all the fear and shame and actually grow to be alright with themselves, I feel almost like they were our predecessors. Even if they all told a few other people, even if the weren't activists that got name recognization, they're still taking more of risk than just by pursuing that part of our humanity that's been shrouded in taboo.

I hope this makes sense.

#1 21-05-21 18:41:15

Do we take our sexual freedom for granted?

#2 24-05-21 02:56:09

Re: Do we take our sexual freedom for granted?

#3 25-05-21 01:21:47

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#4 28-05-21 03:06:31

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#5 28-05-21 03:27:02

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#6 28-05-21 08:27:57

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#7 28-05-21 08:29:20

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#8 28-05-21 23:41:42

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#9 01-06-21 01:30:35

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#10 04-06-21 04:31:31

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#11 04-06-21 09:26:02

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#12 05-06-21 04:24:33

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