happy Viva day <3 and my goodbye...!

viva · 15-03-15 23:58:07

ps Lydia my pleasure keep it up you fabulous woman.

bobrob11 · 18-03-15 21:30:34

Viva; You are leaving ?-Please Say It is Not So !! I Am Going to Miss You.

I think that your choice of learning to be a midwife will be very interesting , fulfilling and put in you the middle of another important life experience. It will be tough but fabulous! Some of the things you see will be bad, even horrible but hopefully most will be will be good.
I have done extensive reading in obstetrics since my wife Kathy carried and brought our son into the light. The birth - It was a very bad experience for all. While I had read most of Williams Obstetrics (40th Edition) in preparation for the birth and with worry for my wife's well being; I had no idea a "normal" birth could go so badly. It went from a long labor to an even longer labor . It went from ok to bad to worse to horrible.
When I was reading the textbook that the Med residents use (Williams Obstetrics) I was concerned that so many bad and horrible things happen to the mothers and their babies so I asked the senior partner at the Alexandria (Va.) Obs Gyn and Midwifes practice- a doctor who I thought was really decent -a male physician who said that these things almost never happened and said it was less than a couple of percent of the time so I shouldn't worry- just read the normal parts of the text .

So I did just that. Bad move on my part.

I never realized that he and the others considered a medial episiotomy Normal!!

It is not ever Normal. It is simply not the right procedure to perform unless .....the birth will go badly for both mother and child.

My wife Kathy was in labor for almost 14 hours when she had started to push. When she got to the L&D ward at 12:00 am and the first thing the nurse and midwife did was to stick a square sharp metal rod up her vagina through her cervix to break the bag of waters. And said with a grin "this will speed things up" !That was at 1:00 am. She had only had contractions for just 1 hour. It didn't speed anything up. She didn't deliver for yet another 22 hours.
For the next 21 hours I held her hand rubbed her body and got her what she wanted and hoped for the best. I can't believe she never complained while the neck of uterus stretched and the cervix dilated and flattened. No screaming - No expressions of pain and no pain reliever or epidural . I don't know why that (the stretching the uterus neck ,dilatation and ) hurts so much but it does. Kathy never complained. I have seen and heard girls scream for 2 or 4 hours or more. Not a scream or a bad word from Kathy. But when it came time to push things got bad, very,very bad.
Up to this point she had been laboring to stretch the neck of the uterus, and efface and dilate the cervical os. The uterus and vagina (and other internal organs ) are made of smooth muscle. Smooth muscle stretches a lot. A lot more than you would imagine! Think that your uterus is/was almost the size of a small closed fist-and if you are pregnant - the inside of the uterus will have 8 pounds of baby, 4+pounds of placenta and 4-5 pounds of water plus the myometrium(muscle layer and vascular layer of the uterus that will triple in thickness and weight). And think that all this is contained in the inside space of a small closed fist that grows and stretches Smooth muscle stretches.
What happens next is very different.
The baby's head is just crowning which means you can just see the top of child's head at the small opening of the vagina. After this the delivery gets much harder- the baby has to be pushed through the skeletal muscles of the pelvic floor. These muscles don't stretch much at all. The area that the baby has to come through is very small about an 1 1/4 by 2 1/2" . The baby's head is 4 1/2 to 5 inches in diameter and the shoulders ( even delivered one at a time may be bigger). This space in the pelvic floor muscles is called the uro-genital hiatus. Hiatus means holiday- in this case it is the space that the pelvic floor muscles and the perineum don't completely cover the pelvic opening . A good video on the anatomy of pelvic floor structure and muscles will be found here.

https://youtu.be/P3BBAMWm2Eo?list=PLhnM … oE0fWFJsON

and part 2 here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0Ax3rL … detailpage
Also look at the other videos that are offered.

There are also annotated colored drawings (Plates 354,355,356) in The " Atlas Of Human Anatomy" by Dr. Frank Netter. And the bones of the pelvis will be found on plates 334-340. This book is the most recommended anatomy book ever. Frank Netter did pencil and ink drawings and hand colored and carefully labeled them. He spent 30 or more years on this book. If an anatomy book can be a thing of beauty-this is it-everyone should have a copy!!(you can find new and used copies on amazon) You will use it. I Recommend You buy a copy!!

There are certainly descriptions and drawings in "Gray's Anatomy" (I have the 38th edition) but you will have to look in section 3 Osteology and section 5 Myology to cover this topic.
While the drawings are only adequate the text is descriptive. But anything you can learn is good.

So the second part of labor stretching the tendons of the pubic arch and stretching and pushing to the sides the perineal and pelvic floor muscles. The second stage of labor begins when cervical dilatation is complete and ends with the delivery of the fetus. According to "Williams Obstetrics" this should take 50 minutes for first time births to 20 minutes for multiparas women. I don't know where they got those numbers ; from all the women I have talked with about their birth experiences these times seem way too quick.

Note to all : if some one you meet mentions about having had a baby -ask her about her birth experience-share what you know - be interested and patient . What you learn will be very valuable. Her husband/partner may also have something to say about the birth.
Women/Moms don't get to talk about it very often and every women has a story to tell. So tell a little about your story (or a friend's story) and ask about their experience. I have learned so much from them.

Now back to the second stage of labor. The long term limit duration for pushing out the fetus according to the textbook is 2 hours or add an hour to 3 hours if she has had local analgesia. Again I don't understand these times. This is supposed to be the upper limit for second stage labor. From what I have learned from the women I have talked with this is just not realistic. Only women who have an easy second stage labor deliver in 2 hours. This book must have been written in the 1950's fairy- tale land before women had muscles.
Now it might seem to be common sense that a large framed, strong, athletic woman would have an easier labor and delivery -but No.
Some time ago something between 30 and 35 years ago I was visiting at my parents home -I hadn't seen them in a while- I had to go to the dentist because lost a filling. The dentist was a friend a couple of years older than me. After having my tooth fixed I met and talked with the dentist's sister who was a couple years younger. My dentist is 4 years older' and she was a couple of years younger we all knew each other -small town.

She was/is 6' tall and beautiful she had a great face ,auburn hair to the middle of her back; she had been on a swim team since she was eight years old. Nice shoulders, muscles, a long flat stomach, and hips almost as wide and full as her shoulders. She was a nationally ranked swimmer. Her husband had walked out on her when she was 6 months pregnant and left her with no money and a pile of bills. When I saw her she had a 4 mo. old little girl. She was in the middle of divorce paper work and having to sell her house. I said the baby looked real nice and it didn't look like she had just had a baby and because she was strong and fit I said it must of been an easy delivery -But Not So!! Her baby was about 7lbs 10 ounces and mom is 6' tall and her hips were easily 42" around. What should have been an easy delivery was long and hard.
She took the time to explain to me that the more and stronger muscles a girl had "down there" the more difficult it is to deliver a baby. She went into great detail- at that time I didn't know girls' had that many parts.
And girls stuff is so hidden and it was 1975 and it would be another 5 or 6 years before girls could find their clit and learn how it works. Or to put it a little nicer it was between the 1st and 2nd editions of Betty Dodson's book " Liberating Masturbation". And her book "Sex for One didn't come out until 1986.
Well back to my wife's delivery story. It was in November 1998 -about 25 years later when my wife Kathy was having our baby. I had unfortunately not remembered the story that a strong, fit woman may have a very difficult second stage of labor. Kathy is/was strong and fit but was not major athlete in training for many years. Because she is 5'81/2" was about 140 lbs. her hips are at least 38"-40" around I wasn't worried about the labor and delivery. But Not So!! Kathy was a produce/agriculture product inspector. Which involved opening boxes and cases of produce and checking for ripeness, size, interior freshness -some produce will appear great on the outside but when you slice them open the insides to check if the produce fresh and nice or a little or a lot rotten.
The cases of produce weight 45 to 55 pounds each (except for the kiwis) and to do an inspection she would have to open about 8 boxes. She would also move a lot of boxes to check the middle and bottom of the pallets. You have to check more than just the ones on top. I guess it is a workout if you do that 5 to 10 times per day. Kathy did this job for 10-12 years and then was promoted to office work and training.
So I guess you do not have to be a super fit athlete to develop a lot of pelvic floor muscle. These muscles are strong anyway but you could make the pelvic floor too rigid by swimming, surfing, running, bicycling, going to the gym, or having a job that is a little physical. I wonder if having a wank every day would strengthen the muscles down there? Girls and women are so much more active and seem so fit and strong these days - much more than 10-20 years ago.
In the U.S. and probably in AUS also; girl's and women's sports are hugely popular- it seems these days every girl plays a sport.
Now back to Kathy's progress. It took her about 14 hours to efface the cervical canal and dilate the cervical os. This is the first stage of labor and it is all about uterine contractions. It can take anywhere from 4 to 14 hours in a normally progressing first stage of labor ; that is when the dilatation and effacement are continuous. The time of admission to the hospital's Labor and Delivery unit is the start mark for the length of time of the first stage of labor. Usually a woman is admitted when she has dilated to at least 3 cm. and is having strong painful contractions. And if you start measuring the length of time of the first stage of labor from when a woman reaches ~3.5 cm. the length of first labor can be 2.5 to 6 hours.
Oh, one thing I didn't remember was that last part of the first stage of labor from 7-10 cm. dilatation was that the fetus moves down the neck of the uterus (descent) which about completes the dilation and effacement of the lower uterus. Next is the slight rotation of the fetus so that the head longwise (from front to back ) fits into longer diagonal diameter of the pelvis. This called engagement (chapters 3 and12 of "Williams Obstetrics" ). This is when the top of the head presents at opening of the vagina.
In the first stage of labor there are only a few problems that will send the mom to the O.R. for a cesarean section and they don't happen very often - just a few % of the time( ~5%) . See chapter 17 in "Williams Obstetrics" -First Stage of Labor -Active Labor.

This ends the easier and less dangerous stage of labor; although it couldn't have been easy-a woman on a blog said that uterine contractions during the first stage of labor were painful - they felt like the worst cramps ever ( if someone has a better description please write up and I'll add it to this).
This next part is where it gets difficult and really painful for the soon to be mom. This the part where you get to push with your abdominal muscles when your uterus contracts. You have to stretch and push to the sides the perineal muscles and the muscles of the pelvic floor . The perineal muscles start at the pubic bone, half on each side of the pubic symphysis, goes down the sides of the uro- genital hiatus( the opening in the pelvic floor musculature) crosses over at the bottom of the vulva ( in the perineal space between the fourchette and the anus) some of the muscle joins the part that came down from the opposite side and the rest that crossed over goes down on the opposite side of the anal skeletal muscles and attaches on the sacrum just above the coccyx) . Above (superior to) the perineal muscle is the pelvic diaphragm -3 muscles that make up the levator ani and the fascia covering the upper and lower surfaces. A good short description of the perineum and the perineal body can be found in chapter 3 of Williams Obstetrics .

The text books say that the second stage of labor is relatively easy and quick. The second stage of labor starts with the complete dilatation and effacement of the lower uterus, and ends with fetal expulsion. The textbook (Williams Obstetrics) states that the median duration is 50 minutes for nulliparas (1st time pregnant) and 20 minutes for multiparas women but also states that the time of 2nd stage labor can be highly variable.
I find those median times hard to believe; all of the women I have asked about their birth experiences, the pushing part of labor was much longer. Generally the time to complete the delivery was between 1 to 2 hours even for women who have already had babies (multiparas).My wife Kathy took 6 + hours to push the perineal and pelvic floor muscles aside to deliver her/our baby.
This was way too long !! This active pushing part of labor in nulliparas women should not exceed 2 hours or 3 hours if regional(epidural) analgesia is used. In multiparas women 1 hour (2 hours if regional analgesia is used )was the limit. Up until very recently the second stage of labor rules (which has been around since 1902) were unquestioned .

more later

had was the result of having 2 really bad midwifes and an obstetrician(Dr. Cutting) who did not give a damn about her patient, my wife Kathy .

Last edited by bobrob11 (11-06-15 15:30:28)

viva · 19-03-15 00:16:52

Awww it sounds like you love your wife so much. Thankyou for your story, it was really interesting to me and I'm glad everyone came out of that ok!

aven frey · 19-03-15 07:31:02

only one more day. sad face.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvsB_uIlw-E

silverrock · 19-03-15 07:59:06

it is sad to see her go, she will be missed

ashmedi2 · 19-03-15 21:03:31

See you Viva... Good luck in all you do... I will miss you as will everyone else
I can always use a pretty princess as a Facebook friend My email address would get you to my profile... xxoo
I don't really expect you tolook me up, but you would be welcome

aven frey · 20-03-15 00:21:45

ahh, ahh, ahh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKcS1_f9M5w

viva · 20-03-15 00:40:33

Ahhhhhhhhh.

viva · 20-03-15 00:42:37

Ashmedi, thank you so much for your offer to stay in touch, I really considered it. Unfortunately though I trust you quite a lot, I think it's best to keep my private facebook profile separate from my presence here at IFM, especially considering that I am friends with people IRL who may not want that line crossed. So sorry! But I will come back often to chat with you all here <3

richard · 20-03-15 00:50:06

On Viva's last day at Feck it's time to for me to say goodbye and thank her for her outstanding commitment to IFM and, what most of you may not know, ISM as well. We had a BBQ last night (at which much dirty laundry was aired, thanks to Mountain Goat Beer, hehe) and we all shared memories of Viva's time at Feck - almost 5 years - but unfortunately my memory of the early days failed me. I do recall a very confident, and maybe even a little pushy, American girl convincing me that, despite any relevant qualifications or experience whatsoever, she could do great things for us, if we'd just give her a chance. What was obvious - she was highly intelligent, well-read, open about things of a sexual nature, and motivated. And, a genuinely nice person, which is, after all, the main prerequisite for working at Feck, as you can all see.

I'm not sure I can even remember what her initial position here was, but it soon became apparent that Viva had the skills and smarts to do almost anything, and so in time she became the head editor and co-ordinator of ISM as well as queen bee here at IFM. She has given most generously of her personal experiences both in her shoots (especially those amazing Diaries), and here on the Forum, and the depth of her writing in the Blurbs has been widely appreciated for what it is; insightful, stimulating, even poetic. She's left tough shoes to fill (although we have people here with pretty big feet, but more on that next week) but the site will go on - what may never recover is the ambience in the office, as it loses one of its most colourful and amusing extroverts. I wish we could publish the video of her and another staffer doing their Feck Rap at the 2010 (?) xmas party - that was a highlight! But just her everyday cheerfulness, wit and intelligence has been a big part of what makes the Feck office a great place to come to each day.

So thanks Viva for giving your all, and I really mean all, to the company and the sites over these great years. We'll miss you. I'll miss you! I look forward to hearing about where life takes you from here.

viva · 20-03-15 01:45:05

Richard <3

ashmedi2 · 20-03-15 22:54:06

viva wrote:

Ashmedi, thank you so much for your offer to stay in touch, I really considered it. Unfortunately though I trust you quite a lot, I think it's best to keep my private facebook profile separate from my presence here at IFM, especially considering that I am friends with people IRL who may not want that line crossed. So sorry! But I will come back often to chat with you all here <3

No Problem Viva I understand <3 xxoo

Monotreme · 22-03-15 15:42:33

I want to blurt out here, what is apparent to me, is that Richard and Feck have set up an amazing environment full of happy workers and consumers. That's an amazing thing, in and of itself.

aven frey · 26-03-15 03:22:51

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzesfqXqMhk

Maria_W · 07-04-15 18:56:34

Oh Viva..

Now, two weeks have passed since aven posted the last song, and I haven't even said goodbye..
I've known you for a couple of month and worked together with you for some weeks. Even if we never were 'close', I really, really like you as a person a lot!!!
It's so hard.. In German, I think I could find better words, so sorry... Everything that was said by all the others in this thread is just so true and on the point and there's absolutely nothing I wouln't agree to!
You are such a strong, impressive personality, sometimes appearing as an old, wise woman (not from the outside of course, no worries ). I hope you understand what I want to say and take it as a compliment. Especially your ability to express what you think and feel (and your writing skills in general) is something I truly admire and something that makes you an inspiring example for me.

For your future, I wish you all the best!
May your own strength always be with you and go on growing with every new experience you make. Probably the beginning won't be easy, but you will manage it and hopefully become even happier than you are now!
Your plans sound extremely interesting! Particularly the beeing alone thing in the start!
I'm looking forward to hearing some news from your life
Thanks a lot for everything you did for all of us!!!

PS: ohhhh I wanted all that to sound better and I'd love to say so much more.. And sorry for the bad English

WLV612 · 19-04-15 17:59:52

OMFG!!! This is the steep price I've paid for being away so long. I have to wish you well Viva (If you ever see this...) as you've been such a presence, such a positive force here on IFM. Always gracious, straight forward, passionate and charming, I'll miss you a great deal. I have to state, this has really thrown a damper on my return. I know IFM quality in every aspect will remain high but there's going to be this bit of a shadow...
Very best to you in your journeys, where ever they take you and know you made a difference in the lives of those who were your fans, supporters and friends and at least in my mind I like to think in some small way I was one of the latter.

Last edited by WLV612 (19-04-15 20:19:44)

#26 15-03-15 23:58:07

Re: happy Viva day <3 and my goodbye...!

#27 18-03-15 21:30:34

Re: happy Viva day <3 and my goodbye...!

#28 19-03-15 00:16:52

Re: happy Viva day <3 and my goodbye...!

#29 19-03-15 07:31:02

Re: happy Viva day <3 and my goodbye...!

#30 19-03-15 07:59:06

Re: happy Viva day <3 and my goodbye...!

#31 19-03-15 21:03:31

Re: happy Viva day <3 and my goodbye...!

#32 20-03-15 00:21:45

Re: happy Viva day <3 and my goodbye...!

#33 20-03-15 00:40:33

Re: happy Viva day <3 and my goodbye...!

#34 20-03-15 00:42:37

Re: happy Viva day <3 and my goodbye...!

#35 20-03-15 00:50:06

Re: happy Viva day <3 and my goodbye...!

#36 20-03-15 01:45:05

Re: happy Viva day <3 and my goodbye...!

#37 20-03-15 22:54:06

Re: happy Viva day <3 and my goodbye...!

#38 22-03-15 15:42:33

Re: happy Viva day <3 and my goodbye...!

#39 26-03-15 03:22:51

Re: happy Viva day <3 and my goodbye...!

#40 07-04-15 18:56:34

Re: happy Viva day <3 and my goodbye...!

#41 19-04-15 17:59:52

Re: happy Viva day <3 and my goodbye...!

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