liar liar pants on fire

viva · 11-12-12 01:25:21

Has anyone here ever faked it?

Been with someone who faked it?

I relate to the writer of this article so much - my early sexuality was patterned after porn like hers. This line - "Ironically, in attempting to avoid the stereotype of passive female desire, I chose performed enthusiasm over more authentic sexual experience." - ace, it sums my behaviour up perfectly as well.

Except I didn't even consider my orgasm important enough to fake. I've never faked one. I guess the porn I was watching didn't really even include the girl's climax, fake or not. So neither did my sex - I reassured guys they were so sexy, but my body just didn't 'do that', and how about I suck your cock again, how about over here by the window, do you like that? And so on and so forth - deflecting their attention always away from myself, back on them, always on them.

In some ways, to be honest... and this will not be a popular idea... I had a certain kind of fun with sex back then, before my orgasms were a thing, that I miss. I was super mentally stimulated by my own active submission, my variety of partners, the power and control I wielded when I was not vulnerable to pleasure and the mind-fog of arousal. I would make a good courtesan.

Once I figured out how to have one and started having partnered sex complete with my orgasms, it started to feel a bit like sharing cookies, except I'm stoned with the munchies and he's not. Here, you get one, I get one... and another.. and another.. and then you get one and I get 2...

So I'm conflicted about the whole thing, but I'm pretty sure that faking orgasms is bad, leads to bad expectations, sets bad precedents and encourages outrageously maudlin overacting in general. So don't fake yer o's mmkay?

blissed · 11-12-12 02:27:49

I've made excuses why I couldn't get it up, does that count

Definitely both partners being experienced, giving knowledgable reciprocal pleasure is a paradigm away from patriarchal uncommunicative guessing game sex. Once you break through the barrier and stop faking and you have a nice friendship and both care about each others pleasure, you can enjoy revisiting the area of acting and fantasy where if you want to you can creatively become each others porn

.

viva · 11-12-12 02:29:02

blissed wrote:

Once you break through the barrier and stop faking and you have a nice friendship and both care about each others pleasure, you can enjoy revisiting the area of acting and fantasy where if you want to you can become each others porn

Yeah I find this difficult. Once that barrier is shattered I lose something of what turns me on. I gain a level of comfort and safety, and heights of physical pleasure I could not achieve without those things, but I lose an important part of the mental sexual stimulation I crave... which is why monogamy is not for me (i rhymed)

viva · 11-12-12 02:32:14

Barrier... I dont mean faking neccesarily, I mean the barrier between control and vulnerability. Once I let myself be vulnerable and get really affected and start imposing my own needs on the situation, things change mentally and emotionally... and therefore sexually.

blissed · 11-12-12 02:48:22

Why not take turns. As you enjoy being submissive have one session totally devoted to your partners needs and then one devoted to yours. I find it's about suspending disbelief. I mean that's why we enjoy porn because we've tricked our libido. And true the uncertainty of new partners usually is an exiting turn on.

.

WLV612 · 11-12-12 04:01:41

viva wrote:

Barrier... I don't mean faking necessarily, I mean the barrier between control and vulnerability. Once I let myself be vulnerable and get really affected and start imposing my own needs on the situation, things change mentally and emotionally... and therefore sexually.

That's very insightful and thought provoking. Thanks for that.

viva · 11-12-12 04:51:27

Does anyone else have this? While we're playing the role we like best for ourselves we feel sexy and powerful, even if that role is submissive in behaviour. But to be submissive in actuality, stripped of the ability even to pretend, play, be coy...

blissed · 11-12-12 13:34:45

Well some people like playing at racing cars on the computer and others want to actually be in a racing car on the track and Viva I think that's you, while I'm happy to face simulated danger in a comfy chair, in the warm, eating snacks.

.

viva · 12-12-12 02:52:54

I do like being in racing cars.

But back to the topic, anyone have any experiences with faking orgasm or with partners who faked?

VeronicaF · 12-12-12 02:55:34

I've never fake entirely but there may have at times been slight embelleshments so as not to hurt feelings.

How do you think you'd react if you'd found out a partner had faked to you?

blissed · 12-12-12 13:25:32

I don't really care myself, they're not guilty of a terrible crime If someone's told they don't have to fake then they can do the amateur dramatics if they want to.

Viva this might or might not describe you but being high risk and getting as close to a real experience as possible, wether sexual or athletic with extreme sports seems more popular with people raised with a low risk childhood and computers. I was a free range kid without a computer and didn't build up a lust for risk as I met it while exploring my small town.

Be nice if more people would like to chip in here because they're interesting questions. Go on you know you want too

So still on the subject of faking, how would you feel if you found out your partner was taking viagra or a similar drug without you knowing?

And if this has happened to you, what was the reaction when they/you found out?

.

Last edited by blissed (12-12-12 21:42:10)

viva · 13-12-12 00:12:01

I think consistently faking is a big deal. Really faking that is - Von I would say a little embellishment is all part of the theater and fun of sex. If you are lying completely about your orgasmic response, however, you are promoting misinformation about how women orgasm and teaching your partner that he or she gives you mind blowing orgasms and this is how they can do that, and this is what it looks like.

Lies are bad because they have repercussions. If you want to be honest with your partner or one day truly want to be able to achieve orgasm in their presence, you'd find yourself in the awkward situation of having to back way up and tell them that they weren't, after all, making you cum so hard you saw god all these years. How much could that hurt someone? All our sex, all the moments you thought you were taking me bodily to great heights, that we were going there together... that was a lie. Big ego drop at best, true demolition of trust at worst.

If you never tell, and you part ways, your partner will move on to other women and compare their orgasmic response to yours, having learned that your orgasm was easy to achieve, could be achieved quickly and in multiples, could be had from intercourse alone, say, in fact, it seemed like the less you were into having sex the quicker you'd come. Amazing! That man will have a sexual ego on him the size of Tibet by the time you split up, and yet be fairly clueless. Not leaving him in very good shape for his next partners.

If my man was using erection sustaining drugs I think I would know. I'm pretty sure I would not be happy, but then again I might be *very* happy. Probably the latter and then the former later

Last edited by viva (13-12-12 04:35:37)

blissed · 13-12-12 03:51:24

Veronicas question was how would I react if I found a partner was faking with me and I said I didn't care because from that point they'd know they didn't have too and Viva they wouldn't have too for all the reasons you've outlined. which I've only been aware of properly since I discovered Dods and Ross.

Faking is part of a really really dumb non communicative view of sex and a chance meeting a few weeks ago with someone I hooked up with at a party a long time ago reminded me it was a view I once shared.
I've had to wait till I could get online and be lucky enough to bump into ISM forum, that led to a progressive discovery and what I think is a proper adult sex education. That that experience isn't the global experience of our society is pretty sad. I'm nothing special but I feel surrounded by ignorance when not in the company of a few like minded friends or this forum or D&R and that's a tiny part of the world.

A social atmosphere that makes it difficult to say you have your period isn't very nice. It's disrespectful to menstruation. Good sex education for both children and adults would solve that.

.

Orioneye · 13-12-12 22:10:09

viva wrote:

If you never tell, and you part ways, your partner will move on to other women and compare their orgasmic response to yours, having learned that your orgasm was easy to achieve,

blissed wrote:

Faking is part of a really really dumb non communicative view of sex

I think that a lot of what I would have wanted to say on this topic has already been covered.

My experience with a lovely lady, who I dated for almost two years, was definitely impacted by my first sexual relationship. The woman who I was with before could come really easily and was quite self-aware sexually.

After that my partner of almost two years may have come only once, I am sad to say. It seems a lack of communication (or listening, perhaps, much on my behalf) was a cause. I expected her to react to all the same things which had proved so effective with my last partner. Although I don't think my partner had really faked an orgasm...

hyperballad · 08-02-13 10:07:12

I don't think telling anyone the way they have chosen to express their sexuality is flat out 'bad' is helpful or fair. It's also incredibly close minded and totally condemnatory.

Making simplistic judgements on such things can also be potentially further damaging to someone who already may very well not be so super confident asking/seeking/wanting/thinking they deserve orgasms from penetrative sex. Or maybe there's other reasons entirely, so why don't we ask women why they fake an orgasm and how they feel about their actions?

And What if i have or do want to fake an orgasm? What if i actually enjoyed it? Does that make me really, really bad because im actively choosing to fake...?

The assertion that faking an orgasm somehow let's down every other woman that ever was, is hyperbolic and makes me think of all the 'real' feminists telling me how making and being in porn directly encourages men to be degrading towards all woman and look at what ive done!

I would like to ask any other female here who feels comfortable responding, do you believe me choosing to fake an orgasm actively detracts from the sex or sexual experiences you're having?

I read this article a while ago and for the most part I agree.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 … th-it.html

Let's generate some thoughtful discussion here and not perpetuate sexual shame or stigma unecessarily.

hyperballad · 08-02-13 10:47:37

To give you some personal context, I consistently faked orgasms with a boyfriend, for like a year, when i was in my early twenties. I couldn't work out how to do it for reals, it was the best sex id ever had, what was happening felt really, really good and I would regularly moan and twitch up a storm and it made me feel really fucking sexy. In some ways I thought I could maybe trigger the start of an orgasm by emulating one, it was also fun and made me feel good. I also stopped feeling hung up or broken about not being able to achieve orgasms from sex alone. I would also frequently masturbate to achieve a physiological orgasm while he was watching, because it was hot and we both got off on it. He experienced many facets of what got me off, we both felt good and I see this time in my life as an awakening of sorts, because I went with what felt good, stopped over thinking and obsessing so bloody much and in turn came to a point where I wanted to just try for physical Os with my partners, feeling confident to ask for help to achieve this.

I don't feel bad about it, they were legitimate sexual experiences and choices I made for myself, no one pressured me, I may or may not have been influenced by porn, I couldn't say without intrinsic bias but ultimately I was doing what I was happy and comfortable with.

For the longest time afterwards I kept hearing about how much of a terrible feminist, a terrible person, a terrible woman for 'copying porn' I was for faking orgasms *everywhere* and that caused more damage and loss of confidence than anything else in that experience. I felt so bad literally for years, but thankfully Dodson and Ross taught me a thing or two about the usefulness (none) of sexual shame.

Everyone's situations, experiences and motivations are different, we are complex creatures who are constantly growing and changing. Besides who decided that faking has no value whatsoever and should never be done? That it's an intrinsically devalued sexual encounter?

Every time I've checked in years past I make my own choices, I work out what is right and wrong for myself with the best tools and knowledge I have at the time.

viva · 11-02-13 01:05:06

hyperballad wrote:

I don't think telling anyone the way they have chosen to express their sexuality is flat out 'bad' is helpful or fair. It's also incredibly close minded and totally condemnatory.

First of all, I appreciate the rounding out of this discussion. Hyperballad brings up some things I had not considered when addressing this topic.

Well, I started this thread describing my own experiences with somewhat theatrical sexuality, and described how in some ways I miss that kind of sex that didn't necessarily include my own orgasms. I said, "I'm pretty sure faking orgasms is bad" - and I gave my reasons why. I don't feel that my attitude was close-minded or condemnatory - but I really am sorry if this discussion felt that way to you, Hyperballad. This is clearly a sensitive topic and I may not have handled it with sensitivity.

So, I want to clarify, my position at least.

The article you linked to compares faking orgasm to pretending fandom for a band you don't like or sucking up to your boss. I really don't agree with it. I don't agree with comparing faking orgasm to those things, and I don't agree that those things are okay, harmless things to do.

All of these things, all of this pretending, it's just lying in more elaborate packaging. Making someone think something is happening that isn't, really. Everyone lies. Lying makes things easier, it helps us avoid confrontation, it can make a difficult situation flow a little bit more smoothly - lying is really useful. I think lying is bad. Does that mean I don't do it? No. I do it all the time. I think it's wrong but sometimes lying is a better tactical choice than telling the truth - and sometimes, my ends justify my means. Okay. I consider lying to be a dangerous tool - I use it, but with respect and caution.

Why is lying dangerous? I think because too much lying creates distance and complications, an ultimate necessity of either revelation or secret-keeping forever. Revelation gets harder and more complicated as time goes on and the lies thicken - secret-keeping leaves a dark, untouchable spot on your heart, an uncomfortable guilt which will grow in unpredictable ways over time.

That said, every example is different. What Hyperballad describes, I wouldn't call faking so much as increasing the mental atmosphere of stimulation for both her and her partner at the time. She describes sharing many aspects of her real and progressive arousal, including experiments with orgasm simulation and the expression of her erotically charged intellect which led to ultimately, her actually having physical orgasms. She describes using these fake orgasms as a tool to help her take the pressure off having an actual orgasm. This is a perfect example of the ends justifying, and condoning, the means.

The problem for me is, sex is not about one person. I know that my partner's orgasm is extremely important to me. If your partner thinks he is experiencing something as vital as mutual orgasm with you, for example, and for whatever reason that is something extremely meaningful to him, and he falls in love with you cumming together as part of the overall we-ness of his experience - but then he finds out it was never real.. well that might be really crushing for him. What if the reality of your orgasm matters to your partner? Are we to say that their feelings and their desires are not valid? That there's no difference between a faked orgasm, and a real orgasm, even if to them, it feels like there is?

The problem with lying is, you can't check and see if the person you're lying to is ok with it.

My feelings would be hurt if I found out that over all these years, my boyfriend never really found my jokes as funny as he seemed to. Oh, he enjoyed them - he enjoys me and my quirkiness - I make him smile all the time. But it turns out, all of those belly laughs, head thrown back... well he only did those to make me feel good about my jokes. He meant well. But to be honest, I was never THAT funny, or else, he just didn't really share my sense of humor as much as I thought he did.

story.

So. Bad for the individuals who fake, I believe, generally and theoretically speaking. But, I also think faking is problematic in the message it sends, cumulatively, to the lovers of women who fake them.
The message is, this is an orgasm.
But the fact is, it is not.

I am all about education and when you fake orgasms consistently, you teach bad information. Your student absorbs it. And bad information has a way of trickling out into the world.

I want to point out here that I think there's a big difference between occasionally tossing one off to stroke that boy's ego and avoid Discussion or what-have-you when you just wanna go to sleep, and faking all the time, consistently, for all your partners or for each sexual encounter in a relationship. There are levels of wrong-ness and a white lie - a faked o once in a while - is not a big deal. And I believe that what HyperB describes - using that fake orgasm for herself to relax the pressure off of orgasm in general - is practical and smart and I'm glad she did it.

But I don't agree with this article linked in support of faking orgasms. I don't believe a life based on avoiding confrontation is mentally healthy, in general. I dont believe in casual sex - actually, I think very few human interactions are actually casual. Sweatpants are casual. Dealing with humans is very complicated. And sex, to me, IS kind of a sacred cow - no matter how much fun it can be and how many one-night-stands I have had.

I don't think it's right, in love, to pretend to be something you're not. Understandable, but not right or good. I don't think it's right to be a pushover when naturally you're someone who likes to be in control. I don't think it's right to drink a lot to impress a guy with your toughness when normally you don't drink much at all. I don't think it's right to go wave your arms around for a band you actually hate. It's not the biggest deal. But living that way can add up to a cumulative unhappiness. The unhappiness of dishonesty has a way of hiding for years, and then sneaking up on you when it's impossible to go back and fix. A little tragedy, a big tragedy. But, an avoidable one...

hyperballad · 13-02-13 12:57:38

But who chooses those degrees? And why does anyone get to choose what is right for another sexually?

I am more okay with people who fake orgasms that those who tell me what I can and can't feel okay/comfortable/good about sexually.

There is so much pressure on women, sexually, as it is, to then further condemn other areas of how women, such as myself, may use to cope when they start out on their sexual journey, or midway through, or at any point - because we're all capable of making our own choices and deciding what is right for us.

I don't believe the line 'you're educating bad sex' because no one male or female for that matter should really be carrying a one-size-fits-all set of sexual techniques. Every person we encounter is different, if someone faking orgasms from a particular set of 'moves' means that guy pulls those moves forever more, that is foolishness on behalf of that guy.

If you heard each story behind consistent faked orgasms, the context and the reasoning you may think each person had their own valid reasons, which I'm sure if there was less finger pointing and more asking of questions you may just find out. Although as soon as anyone says 'this is wrong' you have lost an opportunity to hear those supposedly wrong stories and the opportunity to be educated yourself.

viva · 14-02-13 00:47:29

Maybe every lie can be justified. But when we send blatantly incorrect communication to another person, it is a lie. How one feels about lying, is shades of grey and morality.

I prefer to debate the morality of lying in general as opposed to the faking orgasms thing because clearly that is a really sensitive topic (as it should be) and perhaps I was remiss in expressing my views here in this way, on this topic.

These are, I stress, only my personal feelings on these topics and I would never go from, for example saying, I think cheating is bad, to saying to someone, I think you are bad for cheating - without listening to them. That is not my way. But we ought to still be able to have a conversation about what sexual-activity-outside-a-couple means, what it is, and what we think individually about it.

I don't claim to presuppose how anyone should exist or behave sexually within the boundaries of consent. I just think it's a bad idea generally speaking as lies tend to create more lies. I say that with no value judgement, but more practically now - minimum complication is best and stacked lies tend to create complication.

Also, for the record I actually do believe that having sex carries responsibility - inclusive to ourselves, our partners, and the greater sexual consciousness I believe we are all a part of. I do believe personally that more honesty will only add clarity, depth, and beauty to our shared experience, whereas shame, fear, miscommunication and deliberate misleading (while all are natural and not necessarily condemnable), even while gracefully allowing ourselves to feel these things, are things we should look forward to overcoming. They are ways to hurt ourselves and each other.

I believe faked orgasms, like being afraid to have sex with the lights on, like that moment when a girl with small breasts feels embarrassed to take off her padded bra, like a man idly browsing make-my-dick-bigger websites at 2am, or sneakily watching porn in the bathroom when she falls asleep, or like someone with a strong fetish revealing her kink with trepidation, afraid to lose another good man... etc etc. All these things. To me are sad. I understand, I don't condemn, shame and fear are part of life, but they are sad to me. I would like to lessen them and see them lessened.

Last edited by viva (14-02-13 00:50:11)

starman_111 · 15-02-13 05:27:19

All props to Viva for a caring, insistent focus that there is a true gradation between a successful relationship based on honesty vs a 'successful' relationship based on deceipt. The prior being a more significant [species preserving/advancing] level of human achievement.

SongofMyself · 15-02-13 16:55:18

Theres such a weird line for me because sometimes he'll straight up ask me did you come? And while I will rarely say yes I came when I didn't I have to think about my reactions to things. Sometimes (and sometimes in the middle of sex) my responses are (probably in my head) more exaggerated than I would ever think I could ever react to anything. The truth is in that moment I dont want to think about my responses even if they might seem silly or too 'porno' like.

Ive wanted to respond to this thread for a while now but having a hard time solidifying an argument I can stand behind wholeheartedly. Its hard I see both viva and hyperballads point. Lying is bad. Especially in a foundational aspect like sex in a relationship.

Approaching orgasm can vary so much in girl to girl its hard for me to write off an "insincere" response to sexual stimuli when it actually might heighten the mood for both parties. Maybe she gets off on sounding like a porn star and he doesn't mind her acting because it makes him feel bigger and if his confidence is good well then normally his erection is good and that just benefits everyone now doesnt it?

I'm not condoning a grandiose theatrical orgasm everytime you have sex. I don't think anyone here is. I think it's fairer for the sake of this argument to maybe make a distinction between faking with a stranger and faking (continuously) with a significant other and maybe also with a FWB because Im sure there are implications there to consider...

Last edited by SongofMyself (15-02-13 16:57:49)

Monotreme · 17-02-13 01:21:50

As a guy who takes a bit of pride in my ability to respond to a partner's needs, I fully understand what Viva is saying. I also "get" hyperballad's point and think it's a valid one.

I would *prefer* that a partner be straight up with me so that I can do the things I need to do to help that person reach fulfillment (however that person defines it, which is what I think hyperballad is saying — we each define it in our own idiosyncratic way). In a very real sense, my fulfillment depends on theirs. It's just the way I'm made.

It's doubly interesting to me because I'm dating a woman now who seems to respond the way hyperballad describes — she seems to be enjoying our lovemaking but she's not particularly orgasmic. The girlfriend immediately previous was a wild, thrashing animal, but she had borderline personality disorder. Given a choice between those two extremes, I'll take the more reserved girlfriend (and she suits me better in many other ways) and hope, God I hope, I can become the kind of lover she deserves.

I'm going to need her help and honesty to get there, though.

aven frey · 18-02-13 01:22:59

I pretty much agree with everything both Hyperballad and Viva say on this topic, I think that both perspectives are valid in different ways. I personally am somewhat wary of calling out a fake orgasm as an overt lie in the same way I wouldn't call out a woman who is hating motherhood telling people otherwise. Technically it's a lie but women are constantly socialised to make other people feel good even when it means they feel worse. It's not an easy pattern to break.
Pretty much everywhere else it's perfectly acceptable to 'fake it till you make it' (perhaps not investment banking and surgery!) but in orgasm where 95% of the faking is done by women it's not. Hmm.

I feel like there is a lot of resentment towards women who fake, from men especially who have a lot ego invested in their own sexual abilities but sometimes aren't willing to put in the effort or haven't developed the capacity to really learn to be a good lover to a particular individual. If you have a Monotreme who's eager for communication and growth then it's probably easy to be completely honest, if you don't it's not. I kinda think if a lady feels like she needs to fake then possibly there is already a trust issue not even necessarily created by her sexual partner (though possibly) but by the ridiculous whirlpool of expectations, cliches, double standards and misinformation that surrounds sex and sexuality. Society is lying through it's teeth.

Last edited by aven frey (18-02-13 01:24:50)

viva · 18-02-13 04:44:46

I agree completely with you Aven... super well said. I think the basic disagreement between me and you, Hyperballad, lies within there somewhere - I seem to be placing the onus on women to "tell the truth", but things are just not that simple, as Aven points out.

I do believe that this is almost always the way when it comes to my personal philosophies. It's as if there are 2 contradicting modes sitting side by side, and both are non-paradoxically correct. In this way, yes it is true that we are all responsible for ourselves and our own emotions, for example, and simultaneously true that social contact necessitates that we actually do have responsibility for other people.

I have argued both points at the same time as well, which could be confusing and could be construed as me saying that women have a responsibility to educate men sexually, in addition to the responsibility not to break under all the social demands we were raised with, and nobly cling to honesty instead despite all odds. And that if they do not they are liars.

That's not what I'm trying to say

Ultimately, I want to advocate compassion and understanding without imposing a form of enabling which will make our problems worse, instead of better. I want to say, "hey, let's not fake so much anymore, because it is a better world that has more honesty in it." - not, "If you fake you're adding to the problem."

I have observed in my own life that blaming others and victimizing oneself doesn't help one's situation. But neither does pretending everything is hunky-dory and just taking it and taking it until you are destroyed by it.

I struggle to find a middle ground to express myself properly because I think generally one or the other is taken - someone is saying fuck you, stop whining and get back to work - and someone else is saying fuck you, you did this, we can't take responsibility because of what has been done to us.

What if both are true? What if the truth is somewhere in the middle?

My right and ability to take responsibility for my actions despite what society tells me my place is, that is what makes me free. I crave compassion when my progress is slow or blocked for whatever reason, but ultimately I am so lucky because I know that my actions are my choice, and I can choose to accept any societal consequences, or not, as I please. I believe that there are a million Monotremes out there and that again, it is entirely my choice, the people I choose to interact with. And if I felt shame about my orgasm, and internalized that, well, as I grow it is my responsibility (and my joy) to correct the mistakes my parents and my society made when they raised me. Whatever form that correction takes is good.

A utopic upbringing would have its own pitfalls. No, I stand by my twin philosophies - comprehension and compassion are vital. They ought not excuse responsibility, but rather help each of us to claim the freedom of volition we deserve. Because taking responsibility for ourselves and our actions is the most powerful trick up our sleeves.

I really want to thank all of you and especially you Hyperballad because this has been a really stimulating conversation for me.

Also happy happy happy birthday hyperB <3 <3 <3 <3

Monotreme · 20-02-13 23:08:11

Thanks for the kind words, aven frey.

#1 11-12-12 01:25:21

liar liar pants on fire

#2 11-12-12 02:27:49

Re: liar liar pants on fire

#3 11-12-12 02:29:02

Re: liar liar pants on fire

#4 11-12-12 02:32:14

Re: liar liar pants on fire

#5 11-12-12 02:48:22

Re: liar liar pants on fire

#6 11-12-12 04:01:41

Re: liar liar pants on fire

#7 11-12-12 04:51:27

Re: liar liar pants on fire

#8 11-12-12 13:34:45

Re: liar liar pants on fire

#9 12-12-12 02:52:54

Re: liar liar pants on fire

#10 12-12-12 02:55:34

Re: liar liar pants on fire

#11 12-12-12 13:25:32

Re: liar liar pants on fire

#12 13-12-12 00:12:01

Re: liar liar pants on fire

#13 13-12-12 03:51:24

Re: liar liar pants on fire

#14 13-12-12 22:10:09

Re: liar liar pants on fire

#15 08-02-13 10:07:12

Re: liar liar pants on fire

#16 08-02-13 10:47:37

Re: liar liar pants on fire

#17 11-02-13 01:05:06

Re: liar liar pants on fire

#18 13-02-13 12:57:38

Re: liar liar pants on fire

#19 14-02-13 00:47:29

Re: liar liar pants on fire

#20 15-02-13 05:27:19

Re: liar liar pants on fire

#21 15-02-13 16:55:18

Re: liar liar pants on fire

#22 17-02-13 01:21:50

Re: liar liar pants on fire

#23 18-02-13 01:22:59

Re: liar liar pants on fire

#24 18-02-13 04:44:46

Re: liar liar pants on fire

#25 20-02-13 23:08:11

Re: liar liar pants on fire

Board footer