Creative endeavours, pretentious and otherwise.

Burlesque · 21-10-06 15:58:34

I am given to understand that many members of IFM are rather creative people. The Elf has his acting, a few people write, I believe that a few do some painting, Max has her editing and photography (in which fields she is of course unequalled, as she would be in any other field she chose to explore), Adagio is a musician, and Blissed does ... whatever it is he does.

Now: why don't you just tell us a little bit about these pursuits of yours? How and why did you get started, how do you go about it, what are you feelings (pretentious and otherwise - anything is OK by me) about what you're doing, is it your career/would you like it to be, and so on and so forth. I admire creativity (even I must admire something).

Burlesque.

Nowaysis · 21-10-06 17:02:08

I don't know if I've mentioned it elsewhere, and thus belong among the few people already, but I very much enjoy writing. Whether or not my writing is unique enough to be called creative is something I have constant feuds with myself over. On the one hand, I know for a fact that noone else could possibly write the exact things I write. My writing, as well as my way of speaking, moving, eating, dancing, what have you, is an integral part of my personality, and no less affected by it than any other aspect of my being. On the other hand, I also know that precious few (that is to say none) of the ideas for stories or poems I have come up with in my short life haven't already been told, written, plagerised and parodied already. And by far better writers than me at that.

As for pretentions, I have them up to here, and then some. In my more grandiose moments I am absolutely convinced that I am Strindberg, Faulkner, Lagerlöf, Almqvist, Greene, Doyle, Austen, Huxley and whatever other prolific writers you can think of reincarnated. Other times I wonder why the hell I even try.

I do like it however, and in general have no intention of ever giving up. My dream is of course to be able to make my rather luxurious living writing fiction and/or poetry, but failing that, I have plans of studying journalism and becoming an unemployed freelance writer. Long live Swedish educational politics!

Last edited by Nowaysis (21-10-06 17:04:50)

Burlesque · 21-10-06 17:12:06

There are no new stories, only new ways of telling them, so don't beat yourself up over the fact that you can't come up with something completely original that will usher in a new era of story-telling.

I don't believe you have mentioned your writing before, even though it is clear from your posts here that you are very adept at it, and probably even better in Swedish.

The "I'm a genius!"/"I'm useless!" dualism is something I think most creative people have to deal with. It comes with the talent, I guess.

No retreat, no surrender! It is obvious that your writing means an awful lot to you, and giving it up would be the closest thing I could come to calling something a "sin". You've got it - keep using it.

What kind of stories and poems do you write? Do you have a specific modus operandi or do you work solely on sudden inspiration?

Burlesque.

The_Elfman · 21-10-06 17:22:37

Nice idea for a thread Burlesque.

Nowaysis never excuse what you create. It is all original to you and everything you write will have some merit. Be proud of it. Not everyone has the creative spark and you should treasure it.

My love affair with community theatre began a few years ago when a close friend bullied me into auditioning for pantomime with him. I have always had a love of theatre since doing a production of Julius Caesar at school but had never had the confidence or opportunity to try it before. From the first night I walked onto a stage in front of an audience I loved it and haven’t stopped since. I only really feel complete when I am working on a play. Between shows I feel empty.

Acting has progressed to directing and writing for the stage. I have a lot of plans as to where I would like to go with this and yes the thought of a professional career in theatre would be nice.

Nowaysis · 21-10-06 17:27:45

It is almost solely sudden inspiration, divine intervention one might call it. The stories are frightfully often short scenes, fitting as the first page or chapter of a longer work, depicting my own life or how I would like it to be in the near future, in not so clever disguise. Unfortunately, I seldom get past those first few parapgraphs, although some works are meant to be very short, like some sort of prose poetry or such.

The poetry is even more so (based on my own life). I seem to somewhere have picked up the notion that it is more "legitimate" for poetry to be completely self absorbed and blatantly autobiographical than prose.

I have however sometimes experimented with a more deliberate approach, particularly with poetry. After the divine lightning strike gives me the topic and the first few lines (which completely define what type of poem will be produced) I have recently attempted to think more before I write, and plan what kind of progression I want the poem to describe. Most of the time I like the results (and so does my so far only critic, it would seem).

Lately I haven't produced very much at all (not counting the weird spoken word rambling I posted last week under the influence). This is all about to change though. I recently stumbled upon the wonderful little website National Novel Writing Month which challenges participants to write a novel of at least 50,000 words in a single month. The general tone of the website (rather flippant, and always sincere) all but forced me to sign up, and now I'm absolutely terrified I won't have any idea what to write about when November rolls around.

And now I feel that I'm mostly rambling, without any regards to your actual questions, so I'll jsut hit post, and see what happens...

Last edited by Nowaysis (21-10-06 17:30:52)

Burlesque · 21-10-06 18:10:14

I have always been amazed at The Elf's versatility and his eagerness to try new things, so it is kind of funny that the one thing he turned out to love the most was something he more or less had to be forced into. Of course, I am also in awe of anyone who can walk onto a stage in front of a lot people. A good actor (and I happen to know for a fact that The Elf is a good actor) can bring so much to a part and consequently to the audience.

There is a strong autobiographical tradition in Swedish literature, as I'm sure you know, Nowaysis, so you could follow in those foot steps, but if I may suggest, that path could be amended by adding some distinctive plot elements. I'm sure you have a number of interests outside of writing. Could one or more of those be used as the seed of a plot? Just a thought, but if you're going to write a novel in a month, I guess you could use an idea or two from anyone who has one (or thinks they have one, in my case).

I think it sounds very wise to jot down what inspiration first gives you and then deliberate a while before going on. That way you shouldn't have to worry about winding up in a cul-de-sac that you don't know how to get out of - you'll already know what the next phase will be before you get there, instead of screaming "Where the fuck do I go from here!?" and doing that cliché thing ... you know: paper ... crumple up ... waste basket.

Burlesque.

dyslexius · 21-10-06 21:07:59

Repeat, again and again: A beautiful numeric structure may be different from a beautiful visual structure may be different from a beautiful sonic structure may be different from a beautiful verbal structure may be different from...

-- Warren Burt

Last edited by dyslexius (26-10-06 06:17:50)

Burlesque · 21-10-06 21:11:33

dyslexius wrote:

Repeat, again and again:
A beautiful numeric structure may be different from
a beautiful visual structure may be different from
a beautiful sonic structure may be different from
a beautiful verbal structure may be different from...
-- Warren Burt

That is actually quite ... beautiful, in fact. Please expound, Dyslexius.

Burlesque.

dyslexius · 21-10-06 21:54:01

Burlesque wrote:

That is actually quite ... beautiful, in fact. Please expound, Dyslexius.

Much appreciated, Burlesque; and a heartfelt thank you for launching this thread.

I view that post as my placeholder, pending trying to figure out how best to respond to you (and to fit in with the handful of fabulous posts that have already landed here). My outlet is music, but I've always wished for better control of prose (poetry as well) writing, especially in longer forms (longer than forum posts!). I will upload a soundfile or two to some server somewhere on the planet, but haven't decided which pieces I'll choose, not to mention how to describe them.

To expound on Burt's little, what, little poetic aphorism...? I enjoy it on several levels, not least its humour. It's a chapter epigraph from a book I'm currently studying, "An Open Design for Computer-Aided Algorithmic Music Composition: athenaCL." I've not yet used algorithmic tools for any of my music, but intend to experiment with that in the near future.

I'll be back soon with a URL or two pointing to some mp3 files.

--dyslexius (who takes no pleasure in making threats, but makes an exception this time :--))

Burlesque · 21-10-06 22:04:39

Aha, Dyslexius, I had you pegged almost from the outset as a creative individual! My deductions were correct, then. I will look forward with keen anticipation to listening to your music.

Burlesque (who loves making threats, but can't think of any right now.)

Nowaysis · 22-10-06 00:22:18

Burlesque wrote:

There is a strong autobiographical tradition in Swedish literature, as I'm sure you know, Nowaysis, so you could follow in those foot steps, but if I may suggest, that path could be amended by adding some distinctive plot elements. I'm sure you have a number of interests outside of writing. Could one or more of those be used as the seed of a plot? Just a thought, but if you're going to write a novel in a month, I guess you could use an idea or two from anyone who has one (or thinks they have one, in my case).

Indeed. I've studied Literature at university, so I've been forced to read Strindberg (Röda Rummet, to be exact), and I know through research for an essay at said university that Söderberg's works are said to be heavily influenced by his own dealings with different women, and the grief it caused him.

Of course, ther's nothing wring with that, and a reader who didn't know me and all my friends personally would of course not be a0ble to tell that anything I write is autobiographical. It's just this notion I have, that there has to be something "more" to a piece of writing to make it validate its own existance, than merely telling my own life's story.

Burlesque wrote:

I think it sounds very wise to jot down what inspiration first gives you and then deliberate a while before going on. That way you shouldn't have to worry about winding up in a cul-de-sac that you don't know how to get out of - you'll already know what the next phase will be before you get there, instead of screaming "Where the fuck do I go from here!?" and doing that cliché thing ... you know: paper ... crumple up ... waste basket.
Burlesque.

Not to mention, crumpling up the paper gets very expensive when the computer is one's foremost outlet.

Last edited by Nowaysis (22-10-06 00:23:32)

Burlesque · 22-10-06 01:02:48

Strindberg wrote beautifully, but after a while I got fed up with his constant navel-gazing, to be honest.

Something "more" to a story, yes. It's nice when a writer has something to say. In Strindberg's case, for instance, he really wanted the world to know how much he hated women. OK, bad example of "nice". There's always the risk of becoming overly didactic and editorial, of course, when one has a "message" to convey. Only the best writers can be both entertaining and "meaningful"; William Golding springs to mind.

Also, in the "something more" category: a well-wrought plot can work wonders. Just look at "The Da Vinci Code". One can hardly call that a novel, but the mysteries and intrigues are so captivating that one tears through it in spite of oneself.

To sum up then: personal experience + something to say + good plot = bugger all if you're not a good writer.

The crumpled paper is of course metaphorical. There's a scene in the film "Secret Window" where Johnny Depp, playing a writer, looks at what he has written, hits "select all" and "delete" and calmly says: "There we go. No more bad writing." Perhaps that's the modern equivalent to the crumpled paper and the waste basket.

Burlesque.

Last edited by Burlesque (22-10-06 01:06:21)

dyslexius · 22-10-06 10:01:02

This group of clips gives an idea of my capabilities as a composer. Music is not my career. Would I like it to be? Not really, because doing music as an avocational pursuit allows me to do exactly what I feel compelled to do, without constraints or adherence to anyone's stylistic preconceptions. Thanks again, Burlesque, for this thread. We do have creative types in this community, and that has made it much deeper an experience than I'd have thought upon signing up and making my high-brow voyeurism official.

Feel free to download and share my music. I allow anyone to do almost anything they'd want to do with my music, as prescribed by this Creative Commons license. Please note that the clips marked "download, high-fidelity" sound much, much better than those marked "streaming." Also note: These are complete performance recordings, not excerpts.

T o r r i d B l o o m
Performance piece, dance score, synth, samples. Fantasy, drama
Torrid Bloom (streaming, low-fidelity)
Torrid Bloom (download, high-fidelity)

A p r i c o t P i t
Electronic.
Apricot Pit (streaming, low-fidelity)
Apricot Pit (download, high-fidelity)

S o f t i s N o t L i k e H a r d
Live performance. Mixed acoustic, electronics, narration, and vocals
Soft is Not Like Hard (streaming, low-fidelity)
Soft is Not Like Hard (download, high-fidelity)

H a r d W o n
Freely improvised. High energy, free-jazz style
Hard Won (streaming, low-fidelity)
Hard Won (download, high-fidelity)

T h e O u t s i d e r
Dance score, electronics and samples. Fantasy, atmospheric, sci-fi
The Outsider (streaming, low-fidelity)
The Outsider (download, high-fidelity)

Notes

My "hit piece," Torrid Bloom, was first given in public as a performance piece for narrator/actor/dancer and "tape." It was then given at an international music festival by a prominent USA dance company in a strenuous virtuoso dance by its principal choreographer. This amazing choreography to my music was perhaps my biggest thrill as a composer watching a performance by others. Later on, Torrid Bloom had many performances by the woman who I feel is now its definitive interpreter (she made her own choreography and suggested some slight but crucial changes to the text, which I adopted), and who is heard in this mp3 clip. I intend to revisit this piece in the near future for two things: touch up the score in an attempt to get a performance by a real orchestra, and remake the sound track to eliminate one or two of the cheesy synth sounds heard on this clip.

Some noodling in my studio resulted in Apricot Pit, which I made with Max/Msp and Reaktor, two popular tools in the electronic music world. I was going for a kind of atmosphere (which I achieved during the first part). When I approached the middle of the piece, I tired of the atmosphere and just went crazy (I rather like contrasts). Then I glued on a bit of a coda at the end to return some atmosphere, et voilà, an A-B-A form emerged (okay, all musicologists are invited to bite their tongues).

Because I was involved on stage in this performance of Soft is Not Like Hard, I could not judge how effective it was. Only after hearing the tape did I understand what we'd accomplished (I've never enjoyed performing in public, and I, like a few others I know, have performance-amnesia). The ink on my score was still wet as this performance began. Except for the pianist (I played live-electronics here), my colleagues in the ensemble had their copies downloaded from the web the day before the show. The pianist did not see the score until 45 minutes before we went on! He and I stole away to the back of the club, where we whispered (other performers were playing at the time) over the score so I could apprise him of any pitfalls. Through this recording I've come to love this performance more than anything I've ever done live.

Hard Won was recorded in my studio then released commercially on my label, where it became one of nine tracks. It's a duo for saxophone and piano (yours truly), a kind of high energy free-jazz approach. This album got nothing but laudatory reviews from some obscure print and web 'zines and a few well-known 'zines (The Wire, Cadence, Paris Trans-Atlantic). Those reviews stroked my ego but didn't seem to impress too many readers :--)

The Outsider was performed by a prominent USA dance company. Its co-artistic director / principal choreographer asked me to make a suite from specified sections of this and two other dance scores of mine. I was hoping he'd choose to do The Outsider as I'd originally intended it (I actually made my own choreography for it), but in my suite he found some nuggets that led to a very powerful autobiographical work on his behalf. So it remains to be premiered in its full and original form as I intended it. Much of my music has led people to suggest I should be doing science fiction film sound tracks for a living, none more so than The Outsider.

--dyslexius

Last edited by dyslexius (22-10-06 10:33:09)

Burlesque · 22-10-06 13:05:42

And here's Brutally Honest Burlesque with today's review (don't worry, Dyslexius, after the first blow from the sledgehammer you won't feel a thing).

Torrid Bloom: Interesting, but you must forgive me for saying that it sounds a little unfinished, sent before its time; it should probably be seen in performance.

Apricot Pit: Now this is more like it! The A-B-A structure of the thing really works, making it sound (if you'll pardon the comparison) like the Abstract Pure Electronics equivalent to heavy metal. In my always non-humble opinion the best piece of the bunch.

Soft is Not Like Hard: Good, solid atmosphere. The whole thing has an unsettling, atonal quality to it that I like (unsettling is good). Could probably use some work, but I like it.

Hard Won: This is fun. It took a long time for me to start enjoying freeform jazz, and I still have to be in the right mood to appreciate it, but this is good, bawdy entertainment, no doubt there.

The Outsider: This piece gives the impression of a fragmented, disjointed narrative, so I can understand the comments you've had about composing for films. "The Outsider" is very varied and often surprising, so I found myself wondering what would happen next - one of the marks of good storytelling.

That wasn't too bad, was it? I could have just said that it was all great, but what would have been the point? (I could also just have shut up, but that is not in my nature.) You are probably well aware that your music isn't something one absorbs just by listening to it once (which is what I have done), but I have tried to convey my immediate impression. You are a man of talent, and some of your stuff is very good, so I strongly suggest you keep doing what you're doing!

Burlesque.

Cate · 22-10-06 13:24:40

I have one week left of my Bachalor of Fine Arts majoring in Printmaking. I am both exited and terrified at the prospect of being free. I'm currently focused on etching and drawing with the occasional deviation. My growing passion is bookbinding which I learnt last year. Hand made beautifully crafted artists books are to me some of the most desirable objects and it makes me so happy to make my own even if it takes fucking forever. So far I've only made them with a small amount of pages though I have big plans for some I want to make as soon as I'm out of uni.

Burlesque · 22-10-06 13:31:03

Cool! I used to work in a second hand book store, and I always started drooling (metaphorically) when someone brought in a beautifully bound volume. I would just sit there looking at it, touching it (platonically) and just enjoy the craftmanship and artistry that had gone into it.

Burlesque.

Adagio · 23-10-06 01:41:27

I'm finally taking the opportunity to post on this topic....

Music has always been a part of my life. My father, who has not a musical bone in his body, has a deep appreciation of music. I remember countless Saturdays putting as many records (those round things with little grooves in it) as we could on the turntable. Mostly it was classical music, musicals and pipe organ music.

I did the choir thing in church and became part of the handbell choir as soon as I could. I think I was 6 or 7 years old. I LOVED handbells. Still do, but do not have the opportunity to play right now. Started piano at 8 years old because my parents wanted me to. Took violin for one year in 4th grade - hated it.

I grew up idolizing my brother who is 5 years older than me. He played trumpet. So it was a no brainer what instrument I would play when I could be in band. My trumpet playing career began at 11 years old and I haven't looked back. Got my bachelors in Music Education.

My music is a tremendous escape for me. I love just sitting at the piano and playing whatever my fingers want to play. Problem is sometimes I play something really cool and then I can't remember it the next time. I need to have a recorder nearby.

So, this is the abbreviated version of my musical history. Many more things to say. But will go for now.

blissed · 23-10-06 02:09:09

Cate wrote:

I have one week left of my Bachalor of Fine Arts majoring in Printmaking. I am both exited and terrified at the prospect of being free. I'm currently focused on etching and drawing with the occasional deviation. My growing passion is bookbinding which I learnt last year. Hand made beautifully crafted artists books are to me some of the most desirable objects and it makes me so happy to make my own even if it takes fucking forever. So far I've only made them with a small amount of pages though I have big plans for some I want to make as soon as I'm out of uni.

Last year I wrote my parents a Christmas story (a spy adventure with them in it) It was only about 10 pages and it would be great to have something like that bound nicely to make it a real gift.

Burlesque wrote:

Cool! I used to work in a second hand book store, and I always started drooling when someone brought in a beautifully bound volume. I would just sit there looking at it, touching it
Burlesque.

Didn't that weird out the customers a little

Adagio wrote:

I love just sitting at the piano and playing whatever my fingers want to play. Problem is sometimes I play something really cool and then I can't remember it the next time. I need to have a recorder nearby.

Adagio, if you have a sampled grand piano keyboard or sample set in a compy just press record whenever you play anything. It'll inhibit you at first but after a while you'll forget it's on and record some really nice stuff note for note

Last edited by blissed (23-10-06 02:13:38)

blissed · 23-10-06 02:10:25

Anyway, this is the absolute truth, I do telepathic drawing. Some call it remote sensing. I know exactly what everyone looks like even tho I've never seen you. It's a talent I've had for a long time.

yes Burlesque is naked, that's what I'm seeing. Consider yourself lucky I've just
drawn his head and shoulders

Last edited by blissed (23-10-06 02:14:54)

dyslexius · 23-10-06 02:36:24

Burlesque wrote:

I always started drooling (metaphorically) ...when ...touching it (platonically)

You have quite an enviable touch, Burlesque, however messy it might be :)

--dyslexius (who just now decided to test the Never Show Smileys... checkbox)

dyslexius · 23-10-06 02:45:00

I don't know about you, Burlesque, but I figured this subject would unleash a torrent of raised hands especially since you did not limit this only to creativity in the arts (I'm writing this posting offline, but I ran over to the forum just for grins and see that some great new posts have come in, but I'll indulge myself and stick with the thought...).

A couple pursuits I've done in the past but haven't been able to make any time for nowadays include photography, woodworking, and the game of chess. I'd enjoy hearing from people who do these things in a creative way. Other interesting pursuits are model-making (maritime, aircraft, doll houses?), clothing design, and jewelry making. I liked reading about Cate's bookbinding interest. No matter what the pursuit, I love to hear it described by those who are passionate about it, Burlesque, and I kiss your feet for taking the initiative!

--dyslexius (who, when down there, only kisses metaphorically)

Journeyfan · 23-10-06 02:53:25

Adagio wrote:

I'm finally taking the opportunity to post on this topic....
Music has always been a part of my life. My father, who has not a musical bone in his body, has a deep appreciation of music.
My music is a tremendous escape for me.

Adagio, I share your absolute love of music - to quote the John Miles' lyric: "Music was my first love and it will be my last" - a corny lyric maybe, but ever so true in my case.

Unfortunately I have never learned to play an instrument, unless you count having a drum kit for a few years, which I loved. I learned a fair bit from the drummer of a local band. He thought I had a natural talent for the drums .... unfortunately the neighbours didn't and I eventually sold the kit Oh and I was in the choir at school for a year or two and also in an amateur theatrical group in my early teens and sang on stage several times in pantomime and musical reviews, but never in a lead role.

I still believe that there must be some latent musical ability that I have yet to discover. If musical talent can be hereditary, then there might be some hope for me yet: my paternal Grandfather and my Father were classically trained vocalists (both basses) - in fact, my Grandfather was also a Choir Master. My paternal Grandmother was an organist. My maternal Grandmother was a proficient pianist, her sister, my Great Aunt, was an L.R.A.M. (Licenciate of the Royal Academy of Music) and concert pianist and my Mother could play both piano and organ. My daughter is an excellent vocalist and studied both music and music business at college. My nephew who will be 10 years old next month is already quite proficient on the guitar.

Given the musicality in the family it is perhaps surprising that both my brother and I are only proficient at playing the Hi-Fi! .... actually, I would class myself as quite the "virtuoso" with a CD player!

Still I don't believe that it is a pre-requisite to play an instrument to be able to appreciate and love music .... I suppose I could always take up singing again, although after all these years, I don't know if I would have the courage (or the voice!) anymore.

JF

Last edited by Journeyfan (23-10-06 03:26:19)

dyslexius · 23-10-06 03:35:22

Hi Nowaysis, I'm digging your contribution to this -- being so open about your present struggle is very refreshing, and, I should add, you are not alone!

Nowaysis wrote:

As for pretentions, I have them up to here, and then some...

May I respectfully suggest otherwise? I'll bet you think of writers like Strindberg, Faulkner, et al, as models, rather than being their very reincarnation. I think that any successful artist, before finding a unique voice, creates "in the style of..." If you feel you have not yet found your voice, why not go ahead, even ever so consciously, writing in the style of your heroes? Maybe just a page or two with no intention of it fitting it into anything larger, but do this every day. Many artists have observed that their own new voice emerges from this kind of mundane routine seemingly on its own.

This observation intrigued me:

Nowaysis wrote:

...I seem to somewhere have picked up the notion that it is more "legitimate" for poetry to be completely self absorbed and blatantly autobiographical than prose.

That school of thought might be tied to some particular historical period, but I know nothing of it. I think many of history's most powerful works of art are autobiographical (of course, nowadays we're not supposed to do this if we wish to be thought of as post-modern... (dyslexius lets go of nose now)). I think "blatantly" is the key word. I'd say be as autobiographical as you damn well please, whether in poetry or in prose, just be clever about it.

My t'pence, however naïve...

--dyslexius

dyslexius · 23-10-06 03:49:51

Elf, I could easily withstand hearing more about this:

The_Elfman wrote:

Acting has progressed to directing and writing for the stage...

So, please, if you feel comfortable elaborating...

--dyslexius

dyslexius · 23-10-06 04:17:34

Adagio wrote:

...I LOVED handbells.

Yeah, hand-percussion can be sublime! I have a pair of Tibetan Prayer Cymbals (like tiny nipple-gongs, maybe two inches in diameter). They're tuned ever-so-slightly apart, less than 1/8-tone I think, and when they collide, a whole world of gorgeous, ever-metamorphosing beat-tones fills the space.

--dyslexius

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Creative endeavours, pretentious and otherwise.

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