#1 26-06-12 04:32:14

shoegirl

Member

Registered: 24-06-12

Posts: 6

A Documentary Project: Women & Porn

Hi, I'm new to the forum but love the site!

I'm a Canadian documentary filmmaker (legit, female, made other films www.capturingashortlife.com / www.whendreamstakeflight.com) and I'm doing development for a doc about women and pornography. Not women in pornography necessarily, but porn and women; what women want to see, how and why women are using porn and how it differs from what men want out of porn.
   
I have a broadcaster interested and have to make a trailer for the project so am doing some shooting in the next month. I would love to talk to women who use porn, watch porn, self-publish porn. As it's a development project right now any feedback or conversation helps to inform the subject.
   
Confidentiality totally upheld.
Thanks.

viva

pretty pretty princess

Registered: 14-05-10

Posts: 4,113

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Re: A Documentary Project: Women & Porn

Hey Shoegirl, welcome to the forums! May I ask where you're located? That will have some effect on who volunteers to help you with your project as we're all scattered over the globe here. Regardless of where you are I can probably recommend someone, or if you're not in Australia and are interested in skype interviews, I'd be happy to contribute and probably some of the other women working here would be interested as well

viva

pretty pretty princess

Registered: 14-05-10

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Re: A Documentary Project: Women & Porn

Ps: I just edited your post a smidge to make the links work

shoegirl

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Registered: 24-06-12

Posts: 6

Re: A Documentary Project: Women & Porn

Hi Viva, thanks! I'm located in Vancouver. However, I will be filming the trailer interviews and material in mid-July. I will be in Europe from the 13-18 and then in the US so I'm flexible on where I can go and when. Australia is tricky at this time but if the project goes forward will be doable for sure - but a skype chat would be awesome too.
Thanks for the edit (;

viva

pretty pretty princess

Registered: 14-05-10

Posts: 4,113

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Re: A Documentary Project: Women & Porn

Hi Shoegirl, I know one other very vocal female documentarian in Vancouver who I'm sure would be keen to help. I'll be in the US in August and happy to meet up as well. Feel free to email me - viva@ifeelmyself.com - and I can give you my personal details and connect you with my girlfriend in Van

artemesia

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Registered: 04-10-11

Posts: 204

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Re: A Documentary Project: Women & Porn

hi shoegirl, if you wanna do some research, why don't you creative an online form? or maybe we could do a live forum and organise to be online at the same time? i'd be happy to talk about my porn likes/dislikes/habits and occasional creations.

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"You look ridiculous if you dance
You look ridiculous if you don't dance
So you might as well dance."
- Gertrude Stein

shoegirl

Member

Registered: 24-06-12

Posts: 6

Re: A Documentary Project: Women & Porn

I've been thinking about this a lot and my first question that I want to pose is why is porn such a taboo subject for women to talk about and tackle. I'm guessing if you're even on this forum it isn't...but for most people/women, even those who are very liberal, I don't think it's commonplace to discuss or share.

When I first approached the broadcaster about this subject he was unconvinced that there was anything to talk about. He said, "women want the same things out of porn that men do and use it for the same reasons". Is this true? I'm convinced it's not.

There are many general misconceptions I think: 'men are visual so they need porn' being one of them.

The general consensus seems to be that women want story, plot, substance, romance - rather than just penetration when it comes to porn. But this is a general consensus and certainly not true for everyone.

I was at a screening of a film for human trafficking at the Vancouver Film Festival last year and at the end of the Q&A a man in the audience asked what "we" (the collective 'we') can do to help. The filmmaker said "stop watching porn". It struck me...she didn't differentiate. This has led me to the question/exploration of "ethical" porn. But I can't help but wonder if all pornography/porna on the internet (even porn by and for women) contributes to the great porn machine?

I like and admire what IFM is doing and like the description that essentially says that this defies definition. This form of expression doesn't want to self-describe, it is just the experience. My question is then for those who contribute material, for those who create the art/erotica/pornography - what do you get out of it? Why film yourself and put it on-line? (I ask this without judgment, just curiosity) I'm sure that the answers are different for different people.

I'm also exploring how pornography and the availability of pornographic and erotic imagery on-line contributes to the "next generation's" views on sex and themselves...both positive and negative.

I've been told I can't explore the idea of women and porn without also exploring men and porn (and a step further, boys and porn). Do you think this is true?

At this point I'm interested in discussion, thoughts, ideas. I would also like to film someone in process for their own creation for IFM if time and geography allow. An insight into the process, an interview about the motivation a discussion about some of the subjects and questions above.

I think this is such a vast subject so tied into the core of who we are and yet so unexplored (well) in popular media/culture that I want to be able to do the subject justice - to ask the right questions and explore the right paths.

blissed

Member

From: The bus station of the future

Registered: 17-03-06

Posts: 5,622

Re: A Documentary Project: Women & Porn

But this is a general consensus and certainly not true for everyone.

I think that's true of much of what you've said. Most porn has been based on a misinformed consensus that the audience is all voyueristic men with the minds of 12 year old boys. Consquently the people who make that porn are going out of business.

As people we are diverse, not only in our sexual tastes but in our gender expression and physiology. Some women like dirty porn that's hot and real, some men read and write erotic and romantic fiction. I'd suggest not predicating all your work on a gender polarity that people are expected to follow. To wear men or womens clothes or buy female or male perfume. Just because in nearly all walks of life people have  to make one of two choices doesn't mean that inside we aren't more complex and individual. Apealing to everyone who isn't the lowest denominator wether Androsexual or Gynosexual is where porn blossoms for everyone.

http://romance-is-dying.tumblr.com/
http://nakedmenhappywomen.wordpress.com/
http://malesubmissionart.com/
http://speedsick.tumblr.com/
http://bendoverboyfriend.tumblr.com/

.

Last edited by blissed (03-07-12 01:38:04)

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(Self made tycoon and independant financial advisor to the stars)

viva

pretty pretty princess

Registered: 14-05-10

Posts: 4,113

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Re: A Documentary Project: Women & Porn

I think I don't know what kind of porn I would prefer because I haven't seen much that I really *like* - so I just watch the next closest thing, which is whatever gets me off. My masturbation habits can include redtube-style porn clips, camming, chatrooms, dirty penpal style stuff, making porn myself for ifm, reading sexy stories, etc. No matter what the method, often a blend of these things, I usually close my eyes when I come, and push the computer away, or let the book fall.

You know what porn made for me (and I hazard, many female tv fans) would look like? It would look like True Blood or Game of Thrones, only with less riveting plot and sex scenes that only end to provide context for the next one. Creative sex scenes with characters involved in nearly constant struggles for power. Struggling for power is hot.

Or maybe it would look like Shame - that new Michael Fassbender movie - except without the shame. Basically, a lot more naked men doing real-people things like looking at each other on trains and then fucking.

artist_kitkat

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Registered: 06-08-09

Posts: 109

Re: A Documentary Project: Women & Porn

First and foremost, I have to like the people involved, whether they are characters or real.  That's a hard one to find, so I generally don't watch porn, as I find a lot of it off putting in the first few seconds.  I like things to be pretty; well shot, with sensual colours, and lighting that draws my eye and my imagination in.  The emphasis of the shooting needs to be on extending or highlighting the sensuality of feeling. I don't like things that look painful or rough.  I like things that I could imagine enjoying, and I tend towards comfort, sensuality, subtlety, and communication.
So visually, that is often hard to find and I admit I don't often look.  I love erotic literature though.  And in that regard, because it's up to me to imagine it, I can go in for rougher stuff and still enjoy it on my own terms.  The aesthetic is controlled by me, to a large degree.  But once again, the primary ingredient has to be the likability of the characters or people in the tale.

Last edited by artist_kitkat (03-07-12 11:38:17)

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I like it.  I like it a lot. I like it a lot and then sometimes not.

hartp02

Member

Registered: 10-05-08

Posts: 85

Re: A Documentary Project: Women & Porn

Shoegirl,I'm from Amsterdam(hahaaaa,the city of drugs and vice!)and twice a year they have the Kamasutra fair over there,in spring and fall.
Check it on Google for the exact dates;try to visit one of the fairs when you are in Holland...you will find during your visit a lot of people involved in porn;also female-friendly companies runned and films lovingly performed by:women.
Good luck!
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exegi monumentum aire perennius

viva

pretty pretty princess

Registered: 14-05-10

Posts: 4,113

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Re: A Documentary Project: Women & Porn

Kitkat, have you read Delta of Venus and Little Birds? Oh, they were written for you.

WLV612

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Registered: 24-01-11

Posts: 779

Re: A Documentary Project: Women & Porn

First and foremost, I have to like the people involved, whether they are characters or real.  That's a hard one to find, so I generally don't watch porn, as I find a lot of it off putting in the first few seconds.  I like things to be pretty; well shot, with sensual colours, and lighting that draws my eye and my imagination in.  The emphasis of the shooting needs to be on extending or highlighting the sensuality of feeling. I don't like things that look painful or rough.  I like things that I could imagine enjoying, and I tend towards comfort, sensuality, subtlety, and communication.
So visually, that is often hard to find and I admit I don't often look.  I love erotic literature though.  And in that regard, because it's up to me to imagine it, I can go in for rougher stuff and still enjoy it on my own terms.  The aesthetic is controlled by me, to a large degree.  But once again, the primary ingredient has to be the likability of the characters or people in the tale.

I could have written this. Perhaps not so eloquently, with the precision of thought and expression, but this is where my mind is in regards to erotic material. I haven't read much in the way of erotic literature but there have been passages in novels that are highly charged with erotic content and the ones that I enjoy involve a lot of detail and descriptive writing and usually from the female perspective.

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"Chacun prépare sa propre mort."

French saying.

shoegirl

Member

Registered: 24-06-12

Posts: 6

Re: A Documentary Project: Women & Porn

Thank you all for your thoughts and sharing!
blissed, I don't disagree with you that we are all different and therefore want/need/desire different things and experiences. However, the question this raises for me is if, in your mind/experience, then a place to explore women's relationship to pornography and erotica specifically?

shoegirl

Member

Registered: 24-06-12

Posts: 6

Re: A Documentary Project: Women & Porn

hartp02 anything specifically you can think of or anyone I need to meet while doing research in Amsterdam? I won't be there for that festival this time...but I'm open to suggestions. Thanks.

aven frey

Video editor

Registered: 24-02-06

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Re: A Documentary Project: Women & Porn

hartp02 anything specifically you can think of or anyone I need to meet while doing research in Amsterdam? I won't be there for that festival this time...but I'm open to suggestions. Thanks.

Jennifer Lyon Bell from Blue Artichoke Films is based in Amsterdam, she makes porn with a much broader audience in mind than the usual. She has many thoughtful things to say about women and porn. And a network of like minded peeps!

http://blueartichokefilms.com/

It also might be worth checking out some of the porn film festivals floating about (such as Berlin http://www.pornfilmfestivalberlin.de/pffb_2012/en/). They usually have a large contingency of female directors making porn for women and there are often forums and spaces devoted to feminist discourse about women and porn.

shoegirl

Member

Registered: 24-06-12

Posts: 6

Re: A Documentary Project: Women & Porn

Thanks! I'm in touch with Jennifer - but thanks for the Berlin link, great idea.

leeboy

Member

Registered: 04-07-12

Posts: 5

Re: A Documentary Project: Women & Porn

hi ,new member interested in chat n discussions about love life n happieness,

blissed

Member

From: The bus station of the future

Registered: 17-03-06

Posts: 5,622

Re: A Documentary Project: Women & Porn

Hi leeboy, if you want to introduce yourself the 'why I joined this site' thread is a good place to do it http://forum.ifeelmyself.com/forum/view … d=220&p=40

Welcome to the forum

.

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(Self made tycoon and independant financial advisor to the stars)

hartp02

Member

Registered: 10-05-08

Posts: 85

Re: A Documentary Project: Women & Porn

Nuff said by others...only to add:go to the Gaypride this august and ask around in the(gay for both sexes) clubs of the reguliersdwarsstraat(ouch,that name for foreigners)as well as Lellebel,a lesbian club close by that area...
Again belle chance from P.
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exegi monumentum aire perennius

artist_kitkat

Member

Registered: 06-08-09

Posts: 109

Re: A Documentary Project: Women & Porn

Viva, I'll be looking those up, thanks

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I like it.  I like it a lot. I like it a lot and then sometimes not.

HollyWood

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Registered: 28-07-10

Posts: 130

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Re: A Documentary Project: Women & Porn

Importantly, I think that to create a divide between erotica and pornography is to create an artificial divide between high and low culture. I don't think it could ever be as simple and as much of a dichotomy as women like plot development and men like a series of provokative sex events one after the other.  Erica Jong once put it well when she said that "one person's erotica is another person's pornography". And I think the kinds of pornography that people are into (when there is too much variety to navigate often times!) varies on a person to person basis and to generalize risks some serious reductionism. I know that I hate it when people assume stuff like the below link is funny/arousing for women:
http://www.southpacificweddings.com.au/ … en0513.jpg

Yeah, I don't like orgasming, I like it when you fold my clothes. VOMIT. I just started a new post about ethical porn (and what it means to me) - as the whole concept is very problematic and often not discussed in appropriate depth considering it's complexity. If you haven't already finished interviewing, I'd be happy to participate. Also, do you think there is a difference between 'ethical' and 'feminist' pornography? Is intent more important than content to you?

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hollywould90@gmail.com

I have a wishlist and it's attainable for me and for you: https://amzn.com/w/1Y8QURJFXXE8J

blissed

Member

From: The bus station of the future

Registered: 17-03-06

Posts: 5,622

Re: A Documentary Project: Women & Porn

Gender polarity reinforces generalizations. They're self fulfilling. An example is All clothes are gendered, even when exactly the same garment. Apart from a different cut a female cotton check shirt has buttons reversed to the male. Most clothes intended gender is instantly identifiable. So we all look gender polarised and that has a huge psychological effect and is one big reason why as a society we're generally gender polarised. So when your making porn, generalising about what men or women like and tailoring ypur work to that narrow vision is a good route to oblivion.   

My libido likes my imagination the most. Orgasms are amazing and anything that inspires my sexual imagination by intension and is aesthetic and ethical is truely wonderful and generous and deserves big kudos and respect.

.

Last edited by blissed (06-08-12 15:51:05)

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(Self made tycoon and independant financial advisor to the stars)

artemesia

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Registered: 04-10-11

Posts: 204

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Re: A Documentary Project: Women & Porn

Hi Shoegirl,

Sorry it's taken me so long to reply. I think to some extent you can't talk about women watching porn without referring to the men who watch porn. I have spent a fair amount of time thinking about how the dominant male paradigm has affected my taste in pornography. Especially since I think my taste is rather heteronominatively typical.

I wonder how the things that men and women want from porn differ. You want to be stimulated, you want to be excited. But the things that I like done to me are of course going to be different to a man. I do like watching how people touch each other. I like watching women give men blow jobs. Hardcore porn does leave me a little wanting if it's very straight down the line penetration (unless they are unbelievably hot) and doesn't include any awesome hot saucy dialogue. Basically I want things from porn that I am not experiencing with my lovers. I think that could be similar to the male experience and use of porn.

I have this gut feeling that porn in countries that encourage discussion and education in terms of sexuality will not be an issue for the next generation. I think they'll (they being the audience of porn to come) will become more savvy, more demanding of clear ethical boundaries and will want a fair amount of intellectualism. I love porn stars of today. Often they combine a variety of interests with a healthy dose of self-awareness that doesn't have to flatter their audience.

I used to watch movies to learn how to make out with people. Maybe that's what the next generation will demand, real-life loving to guide them down their self-made love streams.

---

"You look ridiculous if you dance
You look ridiculous if you don't dance
So you might as well dance."
- Gertrude Stein

HollyWood

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Registered: 28-07-10

Posts: 130

Website

Re: A Documentary Project: Women & Porn

I just wrote a huge post on porn - what i like to watch and what i support:

http://intoxannals.com/2012/08/07/my-porn/

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hollywould90@gmail.com

I have a wishlist and it's attainable for me and for you: https://amzn.com/w/1Y8QURJFXXE8J