testosterone for all!!

viva · 25-06-12 01:41:20

Found this article this weekend. The idea is that chicks with more testoterone are less likely to want partnered sex, more likely to want to wank off instead. I'm not sure how valid this study is - only 91 women were included compared to 105 men, and the conclusions kinda spurious at best, but let's roll with it.

Saying that having more or less of x makes women want to masturbate more is interesting - first, we have to separate out our arousal, our desires, each moment from each person from each mood and now - from our levels of testosterone.

For me, masturbating is a different pursuit than sex. When I want sex I want things I can't get from myself - to touch someone else's warm skin, to sit with my arms stretched above my head while I get my pleasure, no hands, to look down at someone else and marvel about how good sex is. I want to take time (usually) with sex, like a conversation, find out something new every time. I won't usually want sex when I'm alone - I don't want sex normally until I'm pressed up against it, smelling it, one big hand wrapped around my throat. When I'm alone and I feel aroused, I want the person I'm with.

I'm not sure that any of that has anything to do with testosterone but sure, why not.

I'm interested in this because during the few BA confessions I've done with men, most have reported preferring sex to masturbation, and some of those actually seemed to disparage masturbation the way you would any chore - something to be done all by yourself in the event that there's no one around to come help you out with it.

So I'm curious how people regard the differences between the two acts, and also if you could just test your own testosterone levels before and after you answer, that'd be great thanks.

WLV612 · 25-06-12 02:18:34

Funny you should mention this.....
I've been suffering from chronic fatigue and my doctor ordered a testosterone level check 6 months ago. Still dealing with the problem and a second doctor said my blood work showed no test so I have to get it checked in August. I have no base line at the present however one medication I take dramatically reduces testosterone but my sex drive is higher than ever. Much higher. Go figure?
Masturbation vs partner sex? Masturbation. Too much game playing involved with sex and most women I know pretend it's some kind of reward, special privilege to be doled out like a dog treat.
Most of the women I been involved are honestly very clumsy sex partners with little or no desire to expand or try different things. Basically, there's all this song and dance that could be spent actually having sex. There have been only two exceptions to that norm in my life. It's entirely possible they set the bar very high and most women can't clear it. And both were avid masturbators, chronic perhaps.
My two cents.....

blissed · 25-06-12 11:55:38

I think the hormone tests in the study tend towards confirming Betty Dodsons observation that masturbation is the foundation of sex, as it exercised peoples entire sex machine and produced more testosterone.

The questionnaire part of the survey is flawed. The 1st assumption is that men desire sex more than women. and the guys ego misreported their preference for sex. If you took 200 couples and ask people questions about their partner instead of them you would still get their ego interfering.

There is also a very defined notion of what partner sex is and it seems like they define it as penetration. With only a third of women coming vaginally while pretty nearly 100% of men come when their penis is in a vagina, then why wouldn't most women report a preference for masturbation when it's the option that gives them an orgasm.

WLV sorry to hear about your chronic fatigue. I've had it, so has a member of my family and it takes a few years to work itself out of your system. My very big hunch is that it's about the brain mechanism that tells you your tired, that mechanism also regulates the chemical balance in your body and your muscles. You can be really tired and flu like and yet if your fight or flight mechanism is engaged by danger you may find you can run away with all the power and energy you've always had. As you improve you can look fraudulent as one minute you have to lay down and the next your running around. Both fight or flight and orgasm bypasses the faulty mechanism. If you do no more than you can handle you should start to improve.

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viva · 26-06-12 01:25:29

Bingo Blissed, thanks for your input! You put your finger on what I didn't quite buy about this study - aaaaaand now I want to make a clitoris joke but, I'm sorry, I just can't.

blissed · 26-06-12 11:38:01

Thanks, Though there's science in it, sex is an art and humanity not a science. I think they need to join a genuine online discourse about sexuality before doing their research.

.

LydiaBennett · 28-06-12 10:34:20

"I'm interested in this because during the few BA confessions I've done with men, most have reported preferring sex to masturbation, and some of those actually seemed to disparage masturbation the way you would any chore - something to be done all by yourself in the event that there's no one around to come help you out with it."

Yes, but practise makes permanent, not perfect..ive been with (more than a few)men who are fully aroused, both of us having a great time, but, can only cum by jerking, some only by self...
This is a clear indication of how often, or how long its been since...
anyone else find this?

hartp02 · 28-06-12 13:30:38

In my opinion some men need hard tantalizing and some can do with the soft touch to come;it depends on if you masturbate a lot or you are used to a soft inside of a woman-in short:it's a question of usance!
I know men who can't stand a blowjob and men who touch their gland with their bare fingers!
So,nothing is fixed:we all are individuals.

Hope to have answered your question from a(n)(experienced) man's point of view,Lydia.

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exegi monumentum aire perennius

blissed · 28-06-12 16:32:58

For me my subconscious has to get use to and comfortable with any change of sexual practice, I'm sure lots of other people are the same as you've witnessed Lydia. but for me that doesn't take very long and occasionally if it's on a whim the adjustment can happen instantly.

I don't know if anyone who can write in this thread has been a prostitute or is still practising, as to andrology the anecdote of someone who's had sexual relations with thousands of people can be worth more than everyone else's and many of the studies on sexuality that usually only number their participants in the hundreds, and like the study Viva opened the thread with, can be motivated and based on misconception.

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WLV612 · 28-06-12 17:36:30

I kind of think that age has some role inasmuch as there are more variables with each different lover where as, masturbation reduces the number of variables greatly. Also, one has to consider the aspect of how the sexual dynamic may have been with the lover previous. If it was on a positive level the easier it would be to repartner. If the sexual ended poorly than the next encounter would suffer accordingly and masturbation would look pretty good as opposed to sexual frustration or failure. As the song goes, "Ya' know you can't please everyone, so ya' gotta please yourself."
And as prostitution has been mentioned, I'd never consider sex with a prostitute an option. Others prefer sex with prostitutes.
Casual sex can work for me but I have to at least like the partner and have respect for them as well, however, there are gals I like and respect but with whom could never consider a sexual encounter.
Lot of variables with a partner from my stand point.
That's just me.

WLV612 · 28-06-12 17:55:46

blissed wrote:

WLV sorry to hear about your chronic fatigue. I've had it, so has a member of my family and it takes a few years to work itself out of your system. My very big hunch is that it's about the brain mechanism that tells you your tired, that mechanism also regulates the chemical balance in your body and your muscles. You can be really tired and flu like and yet if your fight or flight mechanism is engaged by danger you may find you can run away with all the power and energy you've always had. As you improve you can look fraudulent as one minute you have to lay down and the next your running around. Both fight or flight and orgasm bypasses the faulty mechanism. If you do no more than you can handle you should start to improve.
.

Flu like is exactly right. There'll be weeks when I'll run a low grade fever in the evening. During the day, I can last about 4 hours before I have to quit for an hour. Concentration and focus are shot. Have trouble comprehending what I read and write. My doctors are looking at other symptoms, hence the tests but everything points to chronic fatigue.
I think I'm just burned out and need a year away from everything and everyone. A year on the coast of Wales with a pub in walking distance, stack of books and I think I'd be cured. And I think I'd stay there until I died.

blissed · 29-06-12 01:09:42

WLV612 wrote:

And I think I'd stay there.

Thers's probably the cause of the problem, you wouldn't come back if your cured. You know how we jump up and down spontaniously when we just read the letter telling us we've been accepted for a job we really wanted or we've won £20,000, it's subconscious, we can't not move and do a dance. Many types of fategue are the reverse of that. It's powered down. Our brains are a chemist shop that feed our bodies with the chemicals we need to operate and our conscious mind is the protaganist that the chemist shop reacts to. I might be wrong but I think your brain and body wants out of your present situation and into a new one. People with fatigue have successfully done that. You can talk about it here or email me if you feel what you have to say is too private, or do both.

.

Last edited by blissed (29-06-12 01:13:29)

WLV612 · 29-06-12 17:11:19

blissed wrote:

You can talk about it here or email me if you feel what you have to say is too private, or do both.
.

There's a lot to share! I doubt you'd believe half of what I've been through in the last 11 years, let alone the years before.
I'll distill it down to a manageable amount and what you'll read is proof positive of your take.
I don't have any privacy issues here as I could be anyone, anywhere, so I'd just have to readjust certain details but the picture would remain the same.
Since I've been on IFM, there's been no judgement of what I post or my points of view and I like and respect everyone with whom I've had interaction, given the limitations of our contact.
As I'm typing this reply, I'm struggling to stay awake and with all the coffee I've had in my system today, I should be dancing on the ceiling.
Back to the topic (In a way...), until I'm tested I won't know how much testosterone is in my system and to take testosterone supplements without a base level is very dangerous. Can stop the heart cold. Much like watching Jane_e or Emily_c or Lindsay in a vid.

Scottblueeyes · 03-07-12 06:54:19

the comment from WLV about never being interested in a prostitute struck a chord, and circled back nicely to Viva's first question; masturbation for me is all about me; pleasure focused, knowing exactly what to do and think and touch and smell to get me off, and experimenting with that. Its all about the tension of wanting the pleasure, the build to it, and the reward. A couple years back, when my endocrine system had a few conniptions, I had low testosterone levels and was given testosterone cream. I quickly became more prone to wanking without out needing too much self encouragement, an upped drive for orgasm.

For me, sex is very different than all of that; having the sexual tension build while you are giving much pleasure, and both of you wanting to be inside the other, and the vulnerability of it all; here's who I am...sweat and fluids and scents and funny noises and all..nothing held back. The orgasm is the cherry on the icing on the cake.

Testosterone didn't touch my desire for sex, but it did up my drive for orgasm/masturbation.

I'm with WLV; prostitutes would just do nothing for me sex-wise for the above reasons, and I'm probably much better at crafting my own mind-blowing orgasm.

(TOTALLY off topic WLV, but, on your recommendation, loved Polar Star)

Scottblueeyes · 03-07-12 07:11:37

LydiaBennett wrote:

"I'm interested in this because during the few BA confessions I've done with men, most have reported preferring sex to masturbation, and some of those actually seemed to disparage masturbation the way you would any chore - something to be done all by yourself in the event that there's no one around to come help you out with it."
Yes, but practise makes permanent, not perfect..ive been with (more than a few)men who are fully aroused, both of us having a great time, but, can only cum by jerking, some only by self...
This is a clear indication of how often, or how long its been since...
anyone else find this?

LB; From a mans perspective; masturbation is socialized amongst us as this thing we do if we are unable to have a partner. What you do until you are no longer a virgin. Rather than a complimentary sexual experience that is different, its perceived as a lesser-than substitute; "well, I guess my partner isn't in the mood, I guess I'll have to settle for this" Pretty strong drift of this in the masculine culture. We rise out of this to greater or lesser extents as we develop sexually, but it is still there in the background. Truth is, we all actually love masturbation, and are great at it, often can't get enough. Simple, quick, can be done anywhere, feels great, sexually reaffirming (and don't forget taboo). But...

It is a rare man that will say to another "I gave my self this great orgasm last night". But give them any opportunity to talk about the great sex they just had... This is a telling contrast.

On another note, I have been with women who were also able to cum by masturbating themselves; for me it was wonderfully hot to be a part of that; scratched another taboo, at least for me.

(and one final note; excuse my shameful acronym ignorance, but BA confessions?)

blissed · 03-07-12 13:12:59

I think admiting to seeing prostitutes has the same stigma as wanking and for the same reasons. How do you 2 know if a visit to a prostitute would do nothing for you if you've never seen one.

I haven't seen one only because it's illegal and so dodgy and sleazy here, and I haven't got the money If I did have the money and it was legal, I would probably hire someone nice and experienced from curiosity and for the same reasons Hugh Grant hired Divina Brown, to learn/discover something, share some fun with them and extend my experience, and for me, in the safest way possible. Perhaps that kind of no shame experience doesn't exist outside my world of wishful thinking but it should. People learn loads from a good physiotherapist, why wouldn't a lovely hot prostitute be any different.

.

Last edited by blissed (03-07-12 13:21:28)

WLV612 · 03-07-12 17:28:49

blissed wrote:

I think admiting to seeing prostitutes has the same stigma as wanking and for the same reasons. How do you 2 know if a visit to a prostitute would do nothing for you if you've never seen one.

.

Well, I've never seen a Grizzly Bear in person either but I have good reason to believe it wouldn't be a positive experience.
We all have our individual preferences based on many years of input concerning sex, both positive and negative. Having spent many years traveling the world and encountering prostitutes in every place I've visited, regardless of how small or remote, I have good reason to believe it's not for me.
Qualification; Let's say that I there's a contributor on IFM that I really enjoy watching and and who interacts on the forums in a manner which I also enjoy. Now, were that contributor to be a sex worker and I had the opportunity to engage them in their professional capacity, I would choose not to. Wouldn't take away from how I view them or my enjoyment of what they've already offered.
Again, all based on who I am and my personal way of doing business, sexually or socially.
Agreed, there is a stigma however, at my age that's not part of the equation. The stigma of wanking....again, past the age of worrying about a bodily function that's normal and healthy and my problem with wanking is at this point, pretty much the same as it's always been. The sight of male genitalia is repulsive to me, regardless of who it's attached to. I didn't have a choice at birth so I'm pretty much stuck with what I have. IFM works so well for me because, well, that should be obvious.
While I can't fault your logic and I concur with your reasons for not engaging a prostitute (Sleazy, lack of money, etc.) it just wouldn't work for me. Now, for the record, I engaged an "Escort" in NYC one evening to attend a show and have dinner and the sex option was on the table, she accepted my, "Thanks but no thanks." and we had a great evening. It was a business transaction and nothing more. I do believe she enjoyed the show.

Last edited by WLV612 (03-07-12 17:32:23)

Scottblueeyes · 03-07-12 23:56:31

this thread, makes one think:

a few more data points, from me at least, as well as a couple of random thoughts

I was recently in New Orleans, at a "gentlemens club", and a truly lovely dancer and I started talking, she suggested a private dance, we spent some time alone, was great fun, nothing much happened, although her interest in me seemed so genuine, just was flat because her interest in pleasing me was for the $. Just sucked the hotness of it, out of it, for me at least, talked to my friend, and he knew that the same situation for him would have been completely different, fantasy coming true.

A couple of years back was in Japan being entertained by our hosts at a very expensive club that was a derivative of the geisha tradition. Beautiful women on either side, laughing at your jokes, wiping the perspiration from your glass, comparing you with handsome movie stars. It was flat and hollow because it was hired.

But...something more akin to great massage; paying someone that is in the business of providing pleasure and relaxation through touch; that they truly enjoy what they do, and by the way get paid for it, that would be something very different; THAT could be incredible.

Blissed; I do think it is different for women than men; same reason that men stripping for women isn't anywhere near as sleazy. Women don't seem to have all the "failure" baggage that goes with wanking, or maybe paying for it.

There was (maybe still is) a psychologist role of a "sex surrogate". Highly empathetic, psychologist/"prostitute" that is paid work with men through sexual problems; their complete focus is creating a trusting environment for men to honestly work through serious issues. Not sure this is still available given all the taboo's it crosses.

It's why IFM works for me; for many of the women, it is clear that this is something they enjoy, sharing their sexuality transparently, in particular the video diaries; yes, the women are getting paid, but that's not the reason necessarily they are sharing what they are sharing.

And...a truly hot prostitute, fulfilling a fantasy that I would not be comfortable sharing with a partner....that could be something, something wildly anal perhaps...

Leads to another thread that would be interesting; straight men's experience with gay men, fulfilling that taboo fantasy, but not telling a soul.

blissed · 04-07-12 00:20:26

I don't think the interactions between escorts and clients have to be phoney. I can see myself as a female escort fucking all the clients I like and teaching them to please me and learning how to please them. Not giving the people I don't like the option of sex and growing to like regulars as friends and playing and finding new creative ways to find excitement. There's a great work of fiction in there exploring the nature of love and the plasticity of libido and the secret desires and vulnerabilities of humanity. But of course there's a big difference between creating a fictional character you identify with and actually being that person full time

.

Last edited by blissed (04-07-12 01:09:48)

WLV612 · 04-07-12 03:49:05

Scottblueeyes wrote:

It's why IFM works for me; for many of the women, it is clear that this is something they enjoy, sharing their sexuality transparently, in particular the video diaries; yes, the women are getting paid, but that's not the reason necessarily they are sharing what they are sharing.

I get the same vibe. How accurate that is or is not, I don't need to know.
Going back to my, "Escort" evening, when the evening was over and I got her a cab, she took my hand and said, "I really had a great time! Now if you'll be in town for a few more days, just call and ask for me and I'll be happy to accompany you again!" I had given her a generous tip and she was trying to get a bit more business. make some more money. It was part of her job to convince me that while I was forking out the green, she still enjoyed my company when the reality was, I was just another costumer. I never for one second felt that she would say, "Hey let's go out tomorrow off the clock."
If I go to a burger joint and the server says, "Thanks for choosing us and come back soon!" They don't want me, they want my money.
I suffer from no illusions. I just have to choose a place that serves the burger I enjoy.
Business is business. IFM is a business and has employees who earn a living providing something I feel is worth paying for. I take as much from the site as I can for my investment. Forum interaction is an example. As you point out, the sharing on the forums has to be the choice of the contributor. No member is going to pay for the forums alone or pay extra to access them but they're a big plus to me and I've really learned a lot about different folks and about myself as a result of posting and I've really come to think of several people as friends if only in my own little fantasy world.

viva · 04-07-12 06:25:52

First off - Scottblueeyes, please excuse my abbreviations! BA is Beautiful Agony, our sister-site, and confessions are the interviews that go along with each person's contribution.

We've spoken on this topic before - actually, het girls buying sex was the hot ticket when I was a wee Feckster, and I remember being so excited to discuss it - it is and was such a good topic it came rumbling off the forums and followed us to a bar, where I had my first rowdy staff drinks with the Feck gang, shouting about prostitutes. Ha! Anyway it remains a good topic - I personally cannot afford the guy I would like to hire, because he costs something like $500 for 2 hours which is reasonable for him, but a stretch for me.

Scottblueeyes · 04-07-12 16:23:16

V; you've just suggested a great research project idea; a couple of us forum contributors fund the project (indiegogo?) you have the experience, and report back. OK...now I can only imagine all the lines-we-can't-cross-if-we-did-such-a-thing- but it would be truly interesting and eye opening (and pretty damn hot to read about).

WLV612 · 04-07-12 16:56:20

viva wrote:

I personally cannot afford the guy I would like to hire, because he costs something like $500 for 2 hours which is reasonable for him, but a stretch for me.

If you're referring to me, I have, "Friend" rates. Write today for a personal quote! That's, WLV.612.@onepumpchump.org.

hartp02 · 04-07-12 21:14:40

With all due respect to the previous writers:
there are true darlings among prostitutes,who give you the GFE=girlfriendexperience
and bitches who, after the normal fee, you have to pay for every piece of cloth they remove.
They are just like real human beings,you know.
Lots I know are graduates and they do it out of free will or even as a (paid) hobby.
I'ts like finding a partner-you need to be lucky.
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exegi monumentum aere perennius

viva · 05-07-12 01:22:26

Could I really crowdsource meself up a sex worker? I feel that I would get a lot of flack for that but I can't quite put my finger on why. Quick, Aven, tell me why this is a bad idea before I go and do it!

blissed · 05-07-12 22:38:38

Kickstarter

Why not, you've got all the kit to make videos.

.

#1 25-06-12 01:41:20

testosterone for all!!

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