female competition

viva · 22-05-12 02:02:50

I don't know if you guys have been following the whole Jenna Talackova/transgender rights/beauty pageant thing, but it's pretty good stuff.

Basically Jenna's hot and the Miss Universe pageant loved her, until they found out she was born a Walter, and then it was all scandal and disqualification from then on out. After a series of protests and an onslaught of righteous anger on the digital front, Donald Trump and whoever else deals with that shit made the right decision to let Jenna back in to compete - along with all women, female-bodied or no.

That's nice. I mean, I have conflicting feelings about beauty pageants in general, but I'm of the opinion that trans-women belong wherever exclusively female-bodied people can go. Of course.

But let's talk about them pageants. Disqualifying Jenna on the basis that she isn't a "natural" woman is ridiculous considering every one of those vag-havers has gotten herself as far away from "natural" as she could in order to make it to the Miss Universe competition. They're already wiped down the canvas, and painted on all the mod cons - why stop there?

What could be better than elevating them to their proper status as parades of joyfully extreme, theatrical femininity? What I'm saying is, Jenna's aesthetic is on the natural side of beauty pageant looks, but let's go for it. Let's get in all the queens, outrageous hair, 8-inch heels. Let's get them pole dancing and showing off their zumba. Let's have a competition, to see who can paint the most objects on ten nails and still press the elevator buttons.

It's better if lil girls watching know that it's a fantasy - a beauty pageant isn't about beauty. Like stripping, it's about dressing up as an ideal - hair set, bikini matched, body shaved, high-heeled strut. Princesses from lands which never existed. Let's shake it up a bit, really make those girls compete.

Or is there something sacred about the soft, blurred out, PG-13 style of beauty pageantry? Does it have to try for "classy"? Does it feel romantic to you, more romantic than a strip club?

Anyway, here's some beautiful pictures of Jenna.

VeronicaF · 22-05-12 02:17:30

This article is a bit old now but it makes me happy to see mainstream tv promoting transissues, or just, you know, treating them as the people they are.
Isis King was the first transgender contestant on America's Next Top Model and was so popular that she was invited back again for a second season.

HollyWood · 22-05-12 03:03:19

viva wrote:

Let's get in all the queens, outrageous hair, 8-inch heels. Let's get them pole dancing and showing off their zumba. Let's have a competition, to see who can paint the most objects on ten nails and still press the elevator buttons.
It's better if lil girls watching know that it's a fantasy - a beauty pageant isn't about beauty. Like stripping, it's about dressing up as an ideal - hair set, bikini matched, body shaved, high-heeled strut. Princesses from lands which never existed. Let's shake it up a bit, really make those girls compete.

Sounds like RuPaul's Drag Race!! (love this show)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RuPaul's_Drag_Race

HollyWood · 22-05-12 05:12:17

This is how i feel about pageantry http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4ed3 … o1_500.gif

blissed · 22-05-12 13:23:32

It's only the judging I don't like. Same with the X factor. Any kind of challenging creativity doesn't even make it on the show just like all the wondrful diversity of hotness doesn't make it to the beauty pageant. You can have pageantry and parades without judging. Royal pageantry isn't judged, neither is gay pride, and the point of most carnavals is to take part.

Pageantry that's done really well is good. It's a living art installation. The opening ceremony of the Olympic games could be a real poece of artistic expression or it could be unimaginitive crap.

A fashion pageant would be better, celebrating the years fashions that's hot and includes both sexes all genders and any creativity you want. The people modeling the clothes could dance with robots (or roombas) It'll be cool!

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artemesia · 22-05-12 13:48:21

but what do we all think about lingerie competitive sports?

aussie babe joins american football league

is the sexualisation of sports something can handle that type of pageantry, given society's tendency to promote unhealthy body images and to feed young people very stereotypical sexualised female form? I'm not sure how i feel about major leagues for that kinda thing.

blissed · 22-05-12 20:55:25

Yeah theres the very beautiiful but media preferred look again ignoring all the other kinds of hotmess and where are the guys. It's putting all the pressure on women again. I have a friend who loves watching naked male japanese drummers and hot guys in the gym.

So with those changes, with the guys and the diversity and some artistry and creativity I think lingerie sexualised sports would be good and have a much greater appeal rather than saying, Let's do lingerie sports and assuming one kind of person wants to see that, because those are the onty people who'll want to see your show, where as I think nearly everyone likes to see images that arouse them.

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Last edited by blissed (22-05-12 21:35:02)

WLV612 · 22-05-12 21:43:38

First, transgender isn't about sexuality or orientation, it's about identity.
Inasmuch as there are now transgendered folks in almost any field of endeavor, regardless of how one may view the validity of that endeavor, why would a transgendered entrant/contestant throw that event into disarray?
It's about breaking down barriers, changing perceptions, seeking and gaining equal rights. And the attraction or distraction is because of the novelty and not the quest for acceptance.
There's a young girl in England who is also in a beauty contest and her story is not a pretty one. But support and understanding allowed her to right something she felt from a very early age was a mistake of nature.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/1 … 06562.html
Setting all that aside, name me one event of international interest that can't or has not been turned into a media circus? Bottom line. Shit like this is a media feeding frenzy.
What would be the media response if IFM had a transgender contributor and that fact were known to the public? Membership would soar! And as there are thousands of post-op transgendered folks in the world who can only be identified as their natural birth gender by biological means, it's possible one day IFM might well have a contributor without even knowing. Remember how popular the vid by Power Station became when people discovered Tula was transgendered?
blissed states it best, nearly everyone likes to see images that arouse them.
How shocking! Thank goodness I have more self control. (blissed, rereading my last sentences, it would appear I'm sniping at your remark. I'm sniping at societies skewed rules for moral conduct. I agree totally with your thoughts, as I usually do. wlv)

Last edited by WLV612 (23-05-12 00:12:01)

viva · 23-05-12 01:40:46

WLV612 wrote:

What would be the media response if IFM had a transgender contributor and that fact were known to the public? Membership would soar!

wlv, you're so cool.

as far as lingerie football goes, I think it's hot and sexy and fun, way more than regular sports. The women aren't messing around and throwing hankies in the air, this isn't a cheer leading routine in disguise - they're ripped, tough, a little scary, and they're serious about football.

It'd be like saying that roller derby is doing women a disservice because people check those sexy ladies out - well I see derby vs this lingerie football as simply an issue of taste and conception. Both involve strong women competing on a serious level without being disguised as men. Derby has more of an punk independent, riot-grrrl DIY style, whereas the lingerie football is more mainstream, but both to me are valid representations of real women.

Just because the lingerie leagues started in Hollywood, by a man as a man's fantasy, doesn't mean it could possibly have any hopes of remaining a fantasy. Not with all those bitchin' babes involved. I guarantee they'll take no bullshit from a man, any more than a stripper would, regardless of what they're wearing.

viva · 23-05-12 01:44:19

I hope the cheerleaders are all men.

WLV612 · 23-05-12 02:51:04

I know quite a few transgendered girls who are not Barbie-ish but attractive on the same level as most of the gals here on IFM. All they want to do is quietly assume the identity the feel is theirs and live in harmony with their body. Two have active sex lives with males while many more stay married or with their female companion.
It's my belief that should such a gal contact IFM, their identity would be presented as they choose and no one would ever know.
Yes, it would be a big PR draw but I think IFM is above that. Now, I know two very attractive young ladies who have survived breast cancer and as many contributors on IFM keep an upper garment on, who would ever know? And I'm positive there's a bunch who would love to contribute to IFM and that would be a wonderful validation that their illness did not diminish their sexuality or any part of their femininity. And again, I think IFM would refrain from using them as a carny side show draw.
In essence, I think IFM caters to real people using real people and is the epitome of mature adult sexual enjoyment on film.
I loved Sequoia's interview statement about working in, "Gonzo" porn before settling here and when you listen to her talk about life, her life and the thoughts of others, it's nice to know this is no place for "Gonzo" porn. But that doesn't mean a lot of the vids aren't gonzo, they're just fun gonzo.
To jump way off track, Strawberry is always fun but I only looked at her bio the other day and she's a fan of my obsession, Chicago. I have two walls with nothing but Chicago stuff. I've seen the show four times on Broadway and it's been better each time. And it tells me why she has the vids, "Reciprocity".

viva · 23-05-12 03:34:26

Of course we would never make a "PR-draw" out of anybody - even if personally, I think we should sometimes. Not using specific contributors as bait, persay, but just more active publicity for IFM in general. That's just me though. The transgender issue has been a sensitive one. I would love to see transgendered people interacting with their own sexuality, free of any context, associations, sexualization by others, free of any image of being a chick with a dick or some sort of sexually explicit wonderland for closeted/bi folks who want it all or anyone who needs a thrill, the "other", something "different" - as trans folk are almost always presented in porn.

I want to see trans women here because I don't want them to have to be different. I want them to have a safe space to occupy sexually as women where they can express themselves in that way for the same reason cis-women produce content for IFM. So people can see them, enjoy them individually and as part of a group of women, and demystify them.

Now, on the IFM home page there is a link to an option to "submit". I hope that any women interested in being part of the IFM project take the plunge, make the effort, and send us their beautiful, home-made orgasm videos.

aven frey · 23-05-12 08:10:34

viva wrote:

as far as lingerie football goes, I think it's hot and sexy and fun, way more than regular sports. The women aren't messing around and throwing hankies in the air, this isn't a cheer leading routine in disguise - they're ripped, tough, a little scary, and they're serious about football.
It'd be like saying that roller derby is doing women a disservice because people check those sexy ladies out - well I see derby vs this lingerie football as simply an issue of taste and conception. Both involve strong women competing on a serious level without being disguised as men. Derby has more of an punk independent, riot-grrrl DIY style, whereas the lingerie football is more mainstream, but both to me are valid representations of real women.
Just because the lingerie leagues started in Hollywood, by a man as a man's fantasy, doesn't mean it could possibly have any hopes of remaining a fantasy. Not with all those bitchin' babes involved. I guarantee they'll take no bullshit from a man, any more than a stripper would, regardless of what they're wearing.

Oh man I hate it, I hate it so much. I wouldn't hate it so much if women in sport got anywhere near as much recognition and money as men do. If I didn't go onto sports forums to lament the poor coverage of the only thing I actually want to watch on T.V and have some dick say that Netball would be more popular if they played it naked. To have ex boyfriends say the same, over and over again, and think it's funny. It is actually very popular amongst women and it gets excellent ratings but the women who play it at the highest level can't even make a living out of it.

Strip clubs have doors, little girls and boys aren't witness to the kind of marketing that tells us, well whatever that picture of the chick in the blue outfit tells us... it certainly places more value on sex appeal than actual sporting ability. Also strippers take heaps of bullshit from men, you got to or you don't make any money. Roller Derby outfits aren't anything like these lingerie outfits either. When I go to roller derby it's to witness beautiful acts of speed and agility, it's not to reinforce my empowered role as objectifier, which may be an extreem interpretation of this lingerie football but it makes me feel extreem!

I hope these women are making tones of cash, at least something that could be compared to the dudes who run it.

aven frey · 23-05-12 08:12:59

oh I should post a link to the marketing of which I speak

http://www.lflus.com/

WLV612 · 23-05-12 12:55:00

I've long thought the, "Glass Ceiling" can only be broken through with a T&A sledge hammer.
So, I'm a member of this site and the draw for me is the focus, the female act of self pleasure. I wouldn't be here were it dedicated to guys punchin' their Munchkin.
I'm I being hypocritical? Or is that apples to oranges?
I'm a supporter of local girls sports teams and it is for the athleticism and competition of the teams. And the girls programs suck hind tit to the boys programs so much so that's not only unfair, it's demeaning to the girls who achieve county, state, national and ever international recognition for their efforts. We have had two girls compete in international events, one in OZ, and they get a page 5, one column notice.
The girls have inferior practice facilities and I and one of my friends bough a huge floor fan so the girls could have some cooling in the old gym and the fan was taken away by a boys team coach until we went back and raised blue, bloody hell.
It's a shitty statement about the athletic ability of girls and women in sports that they are marketed purely for a sexual attraction and not their sporting ability.
When the US women's soccer team beat the awesome Chinese women's team, Brandi Chastain, flashing her sports bra on TV got more coverage than Brianna Scurry's kick block that was the key to the victory. A sports bra! Women at our park walk, jog, run, play tennis in those bras most every day. AAARRRGGGHHH!
Viva, Great post. I too would like to see more publicity for IFM but I do have to agree with the level it has now which is in keeping with the IFM concept. But I think to have one of the very intelligent and well versed contributors get a paper column would give IFM publicity without the high powered media blitz style PR.
But, yeah, that's just me.

blissed · 23-05-12 12:58:32

I think Tennis is a good example for other sports to follow. The finals of both sexes are in the same place at the same event, mixed doubles and equal prize money across the board, from the top to the bottom.

There's no reason why the soccer world cup tournament should be any different, or any sports tournament, including netball. Bobby here's some mixed netball http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zP3LcBVT3sQ The proffessional game is quite good to watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgr2zmq9CUk A net is much harder to get without a backboard and that effects the whole of the game play.

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viva · 24-05-12 02:14:28

I need to preface my discussion with the fact that I know very little about financial inequality between genders - really, the only thing I know is that women make less. I also think short people make less, so I know that short women make very little money, which is bad for me.

All that to say, that my opinions are bound to be flawed when I don't consider every aspect of a topic, and sure enough, financial inequality in women's sport may just make lingerie football unacceptable.

But Bobby, what I cannot understand is, if these women want to and/or enjoy wearing these outfits and playing a sexualised version of a popular sport, who is supposed to say, "No, you can't, this is bad for you."? Are we saying it to protect the little girls? Are we saying it to protect big girls?

Over-sexualised imagery is everywhere - and most often depicts women as weak, dumb, and crazy in conjunction with sexy, good for nothing but fucking if you can ignore the constant nagging. In my opinion these women make it cool, much like what we do with porn. They add good to a bad set of aesthetics by subverting the aesthetic itself - fine, you want lingerie? Look at this, fuckface. You wanna know what it takes to throw like a girl?

If these chicks like their sexy aesthetic, I actually do not see a huge difference between what they're doing and a derby girl - except, as I say, style. These women do what they do by pandering to the aesthetic that they, too, enjoy - maybe off the field they'd like to wear makeup, high heels, act flirty, and there's nothing wrong with it. Also, if you try anything fresh they'll probably break your nose. Derby women have their own aesthetic, but both sets of women are fast and strong.

I know that because of the way the world still works, we have to fucking care about those assholes who see those women as strippers on the football field, a novelty item in a stupid porn shop, and that sucks. It sucks because without the money, we wouldn't give a FUCK about douchebags like that. Easy marks, disrespectful johns, assholes who yell at women in the street - they deserve nothing but scorn, maybe a little pity for being so dumb and so blind. When I read the articles in boy's mags about lingerie football, and I look at the pictures, I laugh. I get it, the lingerie football players get it, pretty much everyone gets whats going on except the little men and women who want to make everything and everyone around them small enough to step on.

blissed · 24-05-12 03:50:14

I think it's the old feminist killjoy thing. But it is totally genuine The feeling that society values you for sex and devalues you in every other respect. Who wants to strip for someone who's disresoectful (unless that's a turn on) I think when people feel valued as people expressions of sexuality can then feel celebratory.

Pretty much like serving in a shop. Shitty customers get told what they want is out of stock wether it is or not, and nice customers are a pleasure to serve becuse they respect you. I think it's just about respect, respect for sexuality and feeling respected.

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Last edited by blissed (24-05-12 03:54:15)

aven frey · 24-05-12 04:32:47

In Netball there is a role for short players. If you check out the major trans Tasman league you'll note that there is a huge diversity of body types as Netball, created by a woman for women functions best by privileging inclusivity and community, rather than say heroism and aggression.

How do you know that all of these women enjoy wearing these outfits? Even if only one feels demeaned but makes a compromise to play the sport she loves and make the money she deserves from being good at that sport (which involves all sorts of intense training and diet stuff) I think that's unacceptable, but worth discussing, yes, what do other people think about that specific point?

And even if every single lady loves her wedgy prone spandex and chaffy garter thing (wtf is that even for? Form follows function people!) it's still not acceptable to me because this mans world is so busy making sure that men get all the things they want they forget to think about how stuff like this might affect women. And no I'm not saying that this is bad for the ladies in the lingerie league, I wouldn't dream of making any assumptions about peoples realities besides my own (and from my own experience exploiting the objectifying male gaze for cash is quite rewarding) but I am saying this is bad for women in general, especially women who play sport and even more especially for women who play top level sport but don't want to do it wearing lingerie.

If we weren't still flailing around with huge gender inequality (not just wtih money but with so many other value structures) I could see the fun but as we live in a world where crap like this happens

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/ … story.html

I can't laugh when womens sporting abilities are reduced to a frilly pink garter and I don't reckon there is enough cool and tough in the world to subvert the aesthetic itself when it's marketed in the fashion that it is.

And oh my god the names, LA Temptation. Vegas Sin. Jesus.

Last edited by bobby (24-05-12 04:41:28)

viva · 24-05-12 05:27:08

Fuck my point, fuck it all, they don't get paid.

“We do not pay salaries because LFL player are not employees,” said McMillen, referring to the fact that players in the league are considered independent contractors.

blissed · 24-05-12 11:53:34

And while we're on the subject http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sD_8prYOxo

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WLV612 · 24-05-12 14:20:46

"If we weren't still flailing around with huge gender inequality (not just wtih money but with so many other value structures) I could see the fun but as we live in a world where crap like this happens

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/ … story.html"

That's the biggest load of horseshit I've read in a long time. Baseball, my favorite sport, has only seen a female player, a pitcher, make it to the minor leagues, while in collage softball and the Olympic games women compete at very high level of skill and athleticism. Several gal softball (Fast Pitch) players have struck out a lot of male MLB players during PR sessions and usually in three straight strikes. Jenny Finch, author of the book, "Throw Like a Girl" being the most famous.
This kind of debate is just bullshit male ego tripping. It's okay for a gal to show her ass in Sports Illustrated but god forbid she be presented as a major athlete in a man's sport. Add in the fact that some women play into the hands of this crap, Danica Patrick, a highly skilled and successful driver, who shills her ass for publicity, is one, doesn't help matter.
The more things change, the more they remain the same.

Last edited by WLV612 (24-05-12 14:45:49)

blissed · 24-05-12 19:17:17

WLV thanks for telling me about Danica Patrick. Saw a video about her and an interview. I don't think she's a good example of what you mean though, she seems to enjoy shoots and being in magazines looking sexy.

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#1 22-05-12 02:02:50

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