He was asking for it.

sonice · 27-03-12 05:36:05

Want to know why 17 year old Trayvon Martin was killed?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTMyb15bfAE

Now where have I heard this kind of logic before?

ranger87 · 27-03-12 13:06:43

I don't care what color you are. I agree with the hoodie part. You give the impression you don't want your face to be seen!

WLV612 · 27-03-12 15:42:53

For generations young men have traditionally adapted the garb of the "Tough Guys", the "Gangsta's". Be it the Brando-esque leather jacketed biker look in the 50's, the Mod/Rocker/Teddy Boy gang look in the UK in the 60's, the "Scarface" look in the 80's, young men want to be perceived as tough, fearless, macho, bad asses regardless of how their conduct may be.
To dress as the perennial, "Nerd" with briefcase, thick rimmed glasses and pocket protector will only set you apart from your peers and make you a potential target for bullies.
Today, given the rise in violent crime and as mentioned the CCTV clips of hooded thugs and robbers, the connection with hoodie and criminal intent is almost a reflex action.
Without a doubt, Zimmerman acted out of reason by shooting the boy and now there's claims that he was attacked by the boy before he shot.
How much if any at all did the hoodie influence his decision to shoot may never be determined. A life was lost by cause and effect. There are far too many fire arms in the hands of irresponsible people in America today. The gap between cultures is growing wider instead of closing. All the publicity given these incidents only adds fuel to the fire of mistrust, suspicion and hatred.
Add to that the fact that America now has thousands of young men and women returning from war zones where appearance and local garb marked a potential enemy, a threat to life, you'll only see incidents such as this rise and spread across all of the cultural communities not just in America but as the shootings in France, just about anywhere in the world.

Last edited by WLV612 (27-03-12 15:45:15)

blissed · 27-03-12 20:22:32

I haven't seen this story here in England on the news. But everything I've found out about it just gets worse and I chime with the views of the people in this video that it's appalling and unbelievable that Zimmerman hasn't been arrested!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOpGAOXL … re=related

Sounds to me like Zimmerman wasn't intoxicated but more likely racist and suffering the side effects of prescription medicine. What someone like that is doing out on the streets with a gun doing official policing on the cheap just beggers belief!!!. Sonice my freaking heart goes out to you having to live in a place where this happens and especially where this happens with a huge racial bias against you is just appalling.

I think the distinction between this and the other thing you alluded too is people can be scared of someome wearing a hoody but won't rape you for wearing hot clothes, Teaching young boys how to peacefully deal with rejection will have an effect on rape not telling women what to wear. While wearing a hijab in Iran and Afghanistan and Egypt, a totally hot clothes free zone, large numbers of women are still raped.

But anyway that Zimmerman case is appalling!!!

.

Last edited by blissed (28-03-12 00:11:53)

viva · 28-03-12 00:23:15

Ranger, fuck, I can walk around with a mask over my face and plastic spikes all over my back and a g-string and a fright wig, and I still don't deserve to be touched in violence - or in any way at all really. It is silly to say that what this man was wearing was as much at fault for his death as the man who killed him. It's more than silly, it's completely crazy.

New York State Senators Kevin Parker and Eric Adams, in solidarity with Trayvon.

sonice · 28-03-12 01:32:42

Ranger
Your comment suggests that if a person dresses the right way they won't be seen as suspicious. Do you think you could prescribe the way I could that would place me above suspicion? My experience as been that some people see; any black person as suspicious, any woman as a slut, Islamic as a terrorist, any Latino as an illegal alien. No matter how they are dressed or carry themselves.

Blissed
In another thread you mentioned that men need to be aware of how our presence can make people feel threatened and try to alleviate it. The problem is
that I am very much aware of how my presence causes some to feel threatened (when I feel I've done nothing to illicit such an response) it is soul draining.

WL
Let's not succumb to despair. A lot of progress has been made in world of human relations and I expected more to come. Our part is; To keep the lines of communication opens with other, To contribute the little slice of information each of us has gained from our experience. To absorb and integrate the information in order to find workable solutions. To act independently and in concert with others to bring about the social change that can lead to further progress.

Viva,
Thank you for inviting me to continue the discussion on this topic. A good education comes from many sources. This forum continue to be a great one.

aven frey · 28-03-12 03:39:24

Okay kids listen up, really it's very simple. If you don't want to be the victim of, actually no scrap that, let's start again. If after you are the victim of a rape, assault, murder, etc, you don't want to be blamed for bringing said violent assault upon yourself be sure to have been dressed like a middle aged, middle class, white man. Those stylish mutha fuckers are beyond reproach, they never want to hide their faces, they don't need to.

Holy sweet mother of jesus. Wow.

Liandra_Dahl · 28-03-12 04:18:35

This is fucking absurd. Everyone wears hoodies. Hoodie fucking shmoodie. That boy was shot because he was young, male and black. If he had been white or latino or female in that hoodie he would be alive. I've listened to the 911 call Zimmerman made when he calls Trayvon a "fucking coon" before ignoring police instructions not to continue pursuing Trayvon. There is nothing else responsible here but the man who chased this innocent child down and shot him in the chest for absolutely no reason.

Last edited by Liandra_Dahl (28-03-12 04:19:14)

viva · 28-03-12 05:21:34

I mean, it's hard because okay, now evidence points to the idea of Trayvon punching dude in the face, and then smashing his head into the concrete. There's stories of him "trying to take the gun". In fact, a google search of "Trayvon" yields articles about his being suspended (for a fucking EMPTY "marijuana" baggie) and articles about how he attacked Zimmerman. Okay, and so all the pictures show him at 11, when in reality he was 17. Okay, so liberal media paints one picture - innocent child, white attacker - and right media paints another - dangerous perpetrator assaults Hispanic man.

To me, liberal media unnecessarily promotes the innocent child story - THIS IS BAD ENOUGH no matter how innocent or how old the kid was. THIS IS BAD ENOUGH.

The real legal issue for me - aside from the racial profiling, which is miserable in itself - is that under the Stand Your Ground law, you can fucking kill someone without any consequences? As long as they punched you? As long as you say it was in "self-defense"? As long as you were fucking scared?

WHAT THE FUCK!? Why hasn't this asshole been arrested for manslaughter at very, very, very least? It's just so hideous.

Liandra_Dahl · 28-03-12 05:43:51

Yeah, Trayvon is a child still at 17, and he was innocent of crimes that Zimmerman suspected him of that caused Zimmerman to stalk and pursue him. So Trayvon is an innocent child. It doesn't require photos of him at eleven, which is deceptive, because the statement is true and needs no deception to hold it's impact.

It is the 'stand your ground' law in Florida that is what's fucked up, you're right, and that's why the left and right are out and about making dicks of themselves because it relates to the 2nd amendment and the gun law reform debate. I don't think this is a time for political jockeying but every gun crime that gets a lot of media attention brings out the crazy gun toting groups spouting crazy shit about guns being an all american household necessity.

I cannot understand how it is even remotely possible for Zimmerman to use the 'stand your ground' when he instigated the violence and the pursuit on racial grounds alone. In this situation that law applies more to Trayvon than it does to Zimmerman. Regardless of all this claims of self defence are affirmitive, as in the necessity lies on you to prove you killed in self defence and not just to claim it. The police failed abysmally to follow due process.

Regardless of who gets shot or who shoots, you're right Viva, no matter who it was who was on the receiving end of that bullet the shooter should have been detained and all evidence preserved for investigation. 'Stand your ground' surely should be determined after investigation and not on the spot without any investigation or preserving of the evidence. It is the police that have failed here most heinously by failing to follow investigative procedures after a killing.

It seems young black men are being treated exactly like rape victims. That if you consume alcohol, smoke pot and wear the 'wrong' clothes then you will be put on trial and not your assailant.

Last edited by Liandra_Dahl (28-03-12 05:48:38)

WLV612 · 28-03-12 12:57:24

sonice wrote:

WL
Let's not succumb to despair. A lot of progress has been made in world of human relations and I expected more to come. Our part is; To keep the lines of communication opens with other, To contribute the little slice of information each of us has gained from our experience. To absorb and integrate the information in order to find workable solutions. To act independently and in concert with others to bring about the social change that can lead to further progress.

Information about Zimmerman and his past record as the "Security" guard is still coming to light and now the focus has shifted to an article of clothing and a young boy is still dead.
That's the bottom line. I see it here every day. The profiling, the fear, the increase in hand gun sales.
At one point I felt that we were indeed beginning to see progress in the are of racial and cultural relations in the US but then the Rodney King incident and the rioting that followed, four years later, the O.J. Simpson murder trial, then the bombing of the WTC, the flood of illegal immigrants and the rise in crime associated with criminal elements who followed them into this country, and interwoven thousands of stories of racial and cultural violence that never reach the world or nation news level. This country has never been as racial or culturally divided since the early 1960's with the conflicts over voter registration or the race riots in many large American cities in the aftermath of the Watts riot in April of 1965.
Incidents such as Trayvon's killing only fuel already high levels of fear, suspicion and hate.
There doesn't have to be a legislated, "Stand Your Ground" law anywhere for those people who are armed, paranoid, irresponsible or simply looking for a reason to shoot another person for any reason, rightly or wrongly. Day after day, I read about armed gunmen and multiple shootings. A young boy in Ohio kills his school mates as retaliation for bulling. Virginia Tech, Columbine, and on it goes.
It's not hoodies that kill. It's an atmosphere of fear, real or imagined and the ease of access to handguns that causes these needless deaths, that accelerate the rise in profile killings. No, I'm not immersed in despair over the atmosphere of violence that is so pervasive in this country, I'm a realist and won't bury my head in the sand and hope things will simply go away.
This story is far from over, far from resolution and there will be other killings before it is. Unrelated perhaps but they'll now gain world and national attention and the cycle continues.
And the infamous "Hoodie"? it will now be symbol of this incident. Perhaps a way to taunt others, provoke more violence. The Hoodie will be linked with this sad and tragic incident for a long time to come. And the gun that was used? The gun that actually killed the young man? It's sales will rise and more will be in the hands of, "Loose Cannons" as Zimmerman may be proven to be.
Place a frog n a pan of boiling water and he'll jump out. Place a frog in a pan of cool water and bring it to a boil and he'll die in the water. The average citizen in this country, regardless of race or culture is the frog and the temperature of the water is starting to rise.
I've "soap-boxed" enough. That's not why I'm on this site. I'll add that I'm very impressed with the level of intelligence and compassion that has been displayed by the other posters on this topic. It's easy to see a lot of folks are following the details of the case as they come to light and are posting informed and rational views.
That's why I spend so much time on the forums. Intellect, insight and quite often some very wicked humor. Sadly a topic such as this can gain center stage.

Last edited by WLV612 (28-03-12 17:35:30)

#1 27-03-12 05:36:05

He was asking for it.

#2 27-03-12 13:06:43

Re: He was asking for it.

#3 27-03-12 15:42:53

Re: He was asking for it.

#4 27-03-12 20:22:32

Re: He was asking for it.

#5 28-03-12 00:23:15

Re: He was asking for it.

#6 28-03-12 01:32:42

Re: He was asking for it.

#7 28-03-12 03:39:24

Re: He was asking for it.

#8 28-03-12 04:18:35

Re: He was asking for it.

#9 28-03-12 05:21:34

Re: He was asking for it.

#10 28-03-12 05:43:51

Re: He was asking for it.

#11 28-03-12 12:57:24

Re: He was asking for it.

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