Gender Dynamics and Battlestar Galactica (!) SPOILER ALERT

polarchill · 02-12-06 23:05:45

I don't know how many sci-fi geeks are out there, but given the nature of many of our discussions here regarding sexual relations and equality, I thought perhaps some of you might be watching, or find (the new, lord, not the original) Battlestar Galactica interesting. It is a concept that, among other things, proceeds from the idea of a society that exists at a state of more or less true sexual equality, rather than one in which the balance and comfort levels are still being worked out.

On this show, men and women exist side by side without any feeling of self-consciousness, and as such are able to slide back and forth between different roles (co-worker, friend, lover) much more easily than in our own society. The show's society is still far from a Utopian one, however, and the basic flaws of humanity almost demand that there will still be complications in any relationships.

Last night's episode, "Unfinished Business", is a great example of how the show addresses relationships within the unique gender dynamics of its fictional world. Apollo and Starbuck (who in this modern remake is a female) finally settled their unresolved feelings, in a boxing ring. No punches were pulled, either literally or artistically. It was simultaneously one of the most brutal and emotionally touching scenes that the program has produced. It was also something that would never air on traditional network television, where safe gender barriers are carefully maintained.

Whether interested in sci-fi or not, those interested in truly experimental and transcendent fiction (especially Gala) should keep an eye on this show.

Will · 02-12-06 23:29:54

Ah, I'm already a huge fan of the show, and am currently working my way through the 2nd series on DVD. I saw most of the shows but there were a few I missed due to work, and so the DVD allows me to get abck into it. I've also seen the first 4 episodes of the third series on my computer, though it was a bit of a mixed outcome as the quality wasn't so great. Once I'd wathed the first though I just had to carry on to see where it went. I think the 3rd series proper will hit the UK around January....

And whilst I'm not a huge sci-fan fan in general, I am also a big fan of Firefly/Serenity. Such a shame that the show was cancelled.

shamFritters · 21-12-06 00:28:10

Oh, Firefly, alas. We rented the discs and watched them pretty much back to back. It was weeks before I got the theme song out of my head.

re:Battlestar, I was so not interested when I first heard about it, I'm old enough to have seen the first one with a critical eye. But then I kept hearing things about it. Starbuck was a woman, but what would that mean? Would Apollo and Starbuck be able to consummate their relationship in a way that was palatable to mainstream audiences? And what about the awful flight suits?

Then I heard James Edward Olmos was in it, and I got a lot more interested. He's just gritty, and I'll watch just about anytihing he's in. It freaked me out the day I realized he was the origami guy from Blade Runner - he looks so very different now. But then I remembered the voice, which hasn't changed at all. "It's too bad she won't live. But then again, who does?"

Hm. I've been wracking my brain trying to think of a quote - maybe that's it.

The way the pilots relate WRT gender reminds me of the way the military personnel related in Starship Troopers (the movie - it's been ever so long since I read the book, although, being Heinlein, I can't imagine it was much different. His gender equality from later books like The Moon is a Harsh Mistress I'm guessing was always something that interested him). The shower scenes in which men and women were unselfconsciously washing together and no-one was being an asshole made me wish for the future.

Hi, other geeks!

Last edited by shamFritters (21-12-06 00:28:40)

Siobhan · 21-12-06 00:38:45

Hi Shamfritters!

You know, being a TV addict, I haven't had television since before most of IFM's contributors were born -- it was just too risky to have it in the house. Consequently, much of popular culture, including space and trek shows after the first one, have escaped my grasp.

But I have read Heinlein, and I started with the first one -- it was such a breath of air I'd never breathed -- there was room for me to be the me i AM and not the me I have to pretend to be. ITO gender, I mean, especially vis-a-vis men. So thanks for remding me of that -- I'd forgotten!

bolero · 21-12-06 01:29:12

shamFritters wrote:

The shower scenes in which men and women were unselfconsciously washing together and no-one was being an asshole made me wish for the future. Hi, other geeks!

I was brought up in a tiny community like that although it was the swimming hole down at the river where all this unbridled nudity took place. Strange how things changed when the boys started getting spontaneous erections and breasts began to form on the girls - and both boys and girls started getting pubic hair. Modesty must be the surname for puberty. Slowly one by one kids stopped coming to the swimming hole, but happily were replaced by new echelons of uninhibited little kids like we once were. Nobody goes there nowadays because there's no longer a swimming hole there. Can't explain - (shrugs shoulders).

Siobhan · 21-12-06 01:31:05

wow. what a nice image you've shared. thx.

and i love that line, that thought: Modesty must be the surname for puberty.

Last edited by Siobhan (21-12-06 01:32:04)

msnevil · 21-12-06 08:50:03

If I remember right, The book was vastly different then the humanistic "pc" driven movie. (Especially the 2nd one.)

A basic summery.

Civilian rights is not a right, Civilian rights are Earned. And the only way to earn civilian rights is to join the military. (To Vote, hold office, etc.) (This happened after democracy crashed, and China defeated the west.)

A minor Criminal infarction results in Capital punishment, ie Hanging.

Dizzy Flores is a Man, not a woman. And the shower scene was a Revisionist rewrite of the Book. Along with the permissible "shag". Woman served in the Navy, Men were the Space infantry. Sexual issues was never talked about, nor acted upon in the book.

The Book was a Militia man's dream come true, And the "bugs" were the socialist marxists. The US constitution is considered flawed, and all rights are earned. Each individual's worth is by service, not color, wealth or creed. And the "starship trooper" book is standard reading list for the military.

Also, the Maker of the movie never read the book, and merely stoled the "title".

shamFritters wrote:

The way the pilots relate WRT gender reminds me of the way the military personnel related in Starship Troopers (the movie - it's been ever so long since I read the book, although, being Heinlein, I can't imagine it was much different. His gender equality from later books like The Moon is a Harsh Mistress I'm guessing was always something that interested him). The shower scenes in which men and women were unselfconsciously washing together and no-one was being an asshole made me wish for the future.
Hi, other geeks!

msnevil · 21-12-06 09:13:52

Hmm, Walking teddy bear dogs vrs mechanical toasters.

And Starbuck has and always will be a slut. And thats a good thing, right?

Calenture · 21-12-06 09:20:54

The best thing about the show for me is the twisted relationship between Gaius and Six - or it was until Gaius morphed into a pantomime villain at the end of Season 2.

Last edited by Calenture (23-12-06 08:28:13)

shamFritters · 21-12-06 18:41:11

My favorite turnaround on that was when Gaius appeared in six's head.

So, who do you think the other 5 cylons are? Do we know them?

Actually my very favorite part has been Gaius-Six-Lucy Lawless in the bed.

Predictably.

polarchill · 22-12-06 02:20:54

shamFritters wrote:

My favorite turnaround on that was when Gaius appeared in six's head.
So, who do you think the other 5 cylons are? Do we know them?
Actually my very favorite part has been Gaius-Six-Lucy Lawless in the bed.
Predictably.

Was there a story that week? I, er, didn't notice.

Cate · 22-12-06 02:35:22

msnevil wrote:

If I remember right, The book was vastly different then the humanistic "pc" driven movie. (Especially the 2nd one.).............................................

That's because the film was made as a satire of the fascism represented by many films and books in the sc-fi/action genre. Veerhoeven used the story as a vechile in his attempt to subvert our lust for violence and ubermensch's in the same way he used Robocop to mock and attack the capitalist greed of large corporations.

blissed · 22-12-06 02:40:29

msnevil wrote:

If I remember right, The book was vastly different then the humanistic "pc" driven movie. (Especially the 2nd one.)

Was the entire film driven by a PC. It can't have had much porn on it, thats all I can say!!

.

msnevil · 22-12-06 13:08:31

If its fascism, then its a far different type of fascism. A Fascist humanism.

Germany did not have "gender equality, Racial equality, open views of sex, female soldiers, genderless showers, etc"

The only think related to german fascism is hyper nationalism, and perfectionism of the human species.

But Veerhoeven believes that America is Fascist in Nature. And the movie was more of a attack on "Americanism" then anything else.

Side note: Agian, Veerhoeven never read the book. So how do you make satire of something you know nothing about? If he had actually read the book, He would realize that Robert A. Heinlein based his book on switzerlands military customs.

Cate wrote:

msnevil wrote:
If I remember right, The book was vastly different then the humanistic "pc" driven movie. (Especially the 2nd one.).............................................
That's because the film was made as a satire of the fascism represented by many films and books in the sc-fi/action genre. Veerhoeven used the story as a vechile in his attempt to subvert our lust for violence and ubermensch's in the same way he used Robocop to mock and attack the capitalist greed of large corporations.

Bishop of Bath & Wells · 22-12-06 20:20:05

For those of you who might be interested, Katee Sackhoff - the actress who plays the female Starbuck - has a great fansite devoted to her. Take a look at the link below if you get a spare minute or five.

http://www.katee-sackhoff.org/

Bish

#1 02-12-06 23:05:45

Gender Dynamics and Battlestar Galactica (!) SPOILER ALERT

#2 02-12-06 23:29:54

Re: Gender Dynamics and Battlestar Galactica (!) SPOILER ALERT

#3 21-12-06 00:28:10

Re: Gender Dynamics and Battlestar Galactica (!) SPOILER ALERT

#4 21-12-06 00:38:45

Re: Gender Dynamics and Battlestar Galactica (!) SPOILER ALERT

#5 21-12-06 01:29:12

Re: Gender Dynamics and Battlestar Galactica (!) SPOILER ALERT

#6 21-12-06 01:31:05

Re: Gender Dynamics and Battlestar Galactica (!) SPOILER ALERT

#7 21-12-06 08:50:03

Re: Gender Dynamics and Battlestar Galactica (!) SPOILER ALERT

#8 21-12-06 09:13:52

Re: Gender Dynamics and Battlestar Galactica (!) SPOILER ALERT

#9 21-12-06 09:20:54

Re: Gender Dynamics and Battlestar Galactica (!) SPOILER ALERT

#10 21-12-06 18:41:11

Re: Gender Dynamics and Battlestar Galactica (!) SPOILER ALERT

#11 22-12-06 02:20:54

Re: Gender Dynamics and Battlestar Galactica (!) SPOILER ALERT

#12 22-12-06 02:35:22

Re: Gender Dynamics and Battlestar Galactica (!) SPOILER ALERT

#13 22-12-06 02:40:29

Re: Gender Dynamics and Battlestar Galactica (!) SPOILER ALERT

#14 22-12-06 13:08:31

Re: Gender Dynamics and Battlestar Galactica (!) SPOILER ALERT

#15 22-12-06 20:20:05

Re: Gender Dynamics and Battlestar Galactica (!) SPOILER ALERT

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