Sexual Needs

The_Elfman · 27-08-06 15:33:39

Leading on from blissed's thread on "free will" it has occurred to me that we didn’t actually seriously address our sexual needs. I’ve been giving it some thought and I’m beginning to wish that I hadn’t. It’s complicated stuff I think. Let me begin by defining my terms:

Need = The desire or necessity for a thing that cannot be fulfilled by any other means.

This seems like a workable definition for our purposes. I’ll list certain sexual needs which have occurred to me. (You might think of others that I haven’t or you might contest some that I have listed). They are not intended to be in order of priority.

Firstly there is the obvious need to have babies. This a lot more than simply a requirement to perpetuate the species. There is a strong emotional/psychological need in the majority of women to have children. (On the whole to a lesser degree in men?). The torment suffered by many women (couples?) who have difficulty or are unable to have children is evident and tragic.

The need for “sexual gratification”. I’m not talking about the need for sensory pleasure here. I think that is a separate issue. I mean a pure animal lust for “release” for want of a better word. That feeling when we are just plain horny and nothing but a good hard fuck or wank is going to satisfy it. This appetite varies from person to person considerably of course.

Sensory pleasure. The stimulation of erogenous zones. How this is achieved and the amount/frequency required to satisfy this need again varies. For me there is nothing like receiving a slow, unprotected blow job from someone who really knows what they are doing. I think a lot of people of both sexes would probably agree with me on that one.

Sexual validation. The need to feel secure in our ability to satisfy the physical and emotional needs of a partner. I think that this is as important to most people with any degree of sensitivity as the need to be gratified ourselves.

Reinforcement of emotional love. “Making love”. No need for me elaborate on this one I think. (Others might wish to of course).

Psychosexual needs. Complicated stuff this. (I’ve thought long and hard about including homosexuality in this category. I’ve decided not to because I think that the biological and emotional imperatives are at least as important as the psychological one here and it therefore deserves it’s own category). Our Psychosexual needs are as diverse as humanity itself. For most some mild bondage, role-playing, cross dressing, water sports etc will satisfy them but sadly for many people the gratification of these needs are damaging to themselves and/or others or downright illegal. (Paedophilia, severe sadomasochism , Zoophilia, Necrophilia for example).

Sexual preference. The need to express/share/fulfil our sexual needs with someone of their own gender is an essential requirement for self-actualisation for a great many of us. I don’t want to politicise this but the battle to gain legal and social acceptance for that basic human right has been (and continues to be) fought long and hard.

Ok. I’m done. Believe it or not it has taken me the best part of three hours to write this and I am now wondering if I’ve achieved or contributed anything by doing it. I’ve probably left a lot of things out. Anything here that prompts you into responding?

Elfman

Last edited by The_Elfman (27-08-06 15:35:20)

Burlesque · 27-08-06 17:06:26

I find your list of sexual needs to be rational and workable. One thing that does occur to me is the complex interaction of these needs, in the sense that each one is on its own level of strength within an individual. For example, one person may not have a very strong urge for sensory pleasure but has an intense need to procreate, or vice versa.

At the risk of being too dry, I can see the various needs as pieces in a pie chart diagram, where a person has his or her own individual division of pieces (I am hungover, that's why I sound even less clear and bright than usual ).

The largest pieces for me would be Sexual Validation and Sensory Pleasure, whereas procreation doesn't even enter into it (not even a thin slice of the pie, as it were).

Looking at it in these terms, I think that Sexual Preference doesn't really fit comfortably into The Elf's list, because no matter what your sexual preference is, the needs themselves remain the same - many homosexual people wish to have children, for instance.

However, I would like to add another need, one that is most apparent to someone who hasn't been "getting any" for quite some time (that would be me): the need to be seen as a sexual being. I have gone without for such a long time that I've noticed that on the rare occasions where a woman implies not necessarily sexual interest in me, but an awareness that I am a man and has sexual feelings, it moves me in a way that I can only describe as gratifying - it satisfies a need. What can we call it? "Being Acknowledged", perhaps?

Burlesque.

Warmtouch · 28-08-06 00:07:37

Being acknowledged is a biggie for sure.

When women turn middle-aged, they often find that they become "invisible." No one stares at them any longer. Some of them, who have enjoyed this attention, hate becoming invisible and take steps to make themselves visible again. Others, who have hated the attention, find it liberating.

But for me as a man that lack of acknowledgement is definitely painful.

Oddly enough, that's one of the things you CAN'T buy from prostitutes. You can buy sexual attention and sexual pleasure, and you can buy the opportunity to give pleasure (though not always). You can't, naturally, make love -- though within the temporary reality that exists during an appointment it can sometimes feel a little like it, especially with someone you know well. But strangely, you can't buy the frank, unsolicited appreciation of you as a sexual being. That appreciation has to be spontaneous to be meaningful. With a lady of the evening, she's providing a service and you're buying it, so your sexuality is not really an issue -- nor is your attractiveness. (And thank God for the latter.)

If a working girl tells me I'm hot, I literally cannot believe it; it's just part of the service. On the other hand if she tells me I'm good company, that I can believe because I think it's true anyway and because it's not the sort of thing men ordinarily pay to hear.

Adagio · 28-08-06 03:21:47

Warmtouch wrote:

When women turn middle-aged, they often find that they become "invisible." No one stares at them any longer. Some of them, who have enjoyed this attention, hate becoming invisible and take steps to make themselves visible again. Others, who have hated the attention, find it liberating.
But for me as a man that lack of acknowledgement is definitely painful.

Then there are those of us women who have felt invisible all along. I was having a conversation with an old college friend of mine. He made the comment that the guys thought I was hot in college. WHAT!?!?!?! I about fainted. I thought, "well why didn't they tell me that back then"? Even if they had I wouldn't have believed it anyway. Only as I've gotten older have I come to acknowledge myself as a sexual being. There are several factors that have influenced what I consider a delayed maturation in my sexual awareness which I won't begin to get into.

Burlesque wrote:

However, I would like to add another need, one that is most apparent to someone who hasn't been "getting any" for quite some time (that would be me): the need to be seen as a sexual being. I have gone without for such a long time that I've noticed that on the rare occasions where a woman implies not necessarily sexual interest in me, but an awareness that I am a man and has sexual feelings, it moves me in a way that I can only describe as gratifying - it satisfies a need. What can we call it? "Being Acknowledged", perhaps?
Burlesque.

There is no doubt that I long to be acknowledged as a sexual being as you describe it now that I'm beginning to embrace the sexual being within. I was probably being acknowledged in such a way before but was oblivious to it or misinterpreted it. (somehow this makes sense in my head but isn't coming out so clearly in words.)

Last edited by Adagio (28-08-06 13:16:27)

Burlesque · 28-08-06 09:23:21

This will come out sounding lascivious and perhaps even condescending no matter how I phrase it, so I'll just stupidly jump right in: someone like you, Liandra, can probably never understand what it's like to be seen as a sexual non-entity, or to be disregarded altogether. I am singularly unattractive to the opposite sex, not in that I am repulsive (I hope), but in that I apparently have no sexual charisma whatsoever.

All it takes for me to feel "acknowledged" is for a woman to say something like "that lady over there, she's just your type, right?" or even make a friendly joke (like a female colleague of mine did the other day) along the lines of "Been getting any lately?". Anything really to confirm that I'm not always seen as a sexual neutrum.

OK, Liandra, feel free to extend jaws and chomp down on my poor cranium .

Burlesque.

Last edited by Burlesque (28-08-06 09:24:55)

Will · 28-08-06 12:45:56

I can understandexactly how you feel Burlesque. Being acknowledged here on IFM as someone who is a sexual being is different because ultimately you remain anonymous.

I can sympathise because I have been, and currently am, in a similar situation as I haven't been involved with anyone since Febuary, and the prospect of being involved again seems rather remote. It just seems different for men. Perhaps my point of view is completely skee wiff on this, but then I can only see things from my own perception. An attractive woman will never be without the oppertunity to be desired to to be seen as a sexual being. The same doesn't as readily apply to men. Or at least that's my view of things.

I remember having a discussion with two girls when I was travelling, and the discussion did turn to relationships. It turned out we were all single, and on hearing this the girls appeared quite shocked asking why would someone like myself possibly be single!?

That was a nice moment. It's nice to be thought of as someone who would/should be desired and a "good catch". The oppertunity simply doesn't arise very often. An attractive woman however would never be long without someone to declare their interest. Or it that a little ignorant of me?

Last edited by Will (28-08-06 13:09:19)

Warmtouch · 28-08-06 12:54:47

I'd say it needs to be face to face, not that I can speak for Burlesque. If it's not face to face, it's a purely theoretical acknowledgement, not a personal one. Saying "All people are sexual beings" doesn't help ME to feel that *I* am a sexual being.

The nature of my work sometimes requires me to speak to groups of people. Occasionally, when it is appropriate and justified, I introduce little hints to remind THEM that I'm a sexual being, not just a talking head with a grey suit on below the neck. Normally it's in the context of a joke, so it gets a laugh and maybe makes people feel closer to me. This is something I do for myself, because I need to.

Liandra, the nature of your work involves thinking about and being surrounded by sexuality every day. I can hardly begin to imagine what that's like, and I'm envious. At the same time, I doubt that you can imagine what it's like to be middle-aged and to live from year's end to year's end in a stultifying corporate world that always behaves itself and spends most of its time thinking about numbers. I don't know about Burlesque, but that's where I am... and why that personal acknowledgement is so rare and so valued.

The_Elfman · 28-08-06 14:03:11

Burlesque wrote:

I am singularly unattractive to the opposite sex, not in that I am repulsive (I hope), but in that I apparently have no sexual charisma whatsoever.
All it takes for me to feel "acknowledged" is for a woman to say something like "that lady over there, she's just your type, right?" or even make a friendly joke (like a female colleague of mine did the other day) along the lines of "Been getting any lately?". Anything really to confirm that I'm not always seen as a sexual neutrum.

Sexual charisma. Nice phrase Burlesque. As someone who also lacks this or good looks I can empathise completely. For me this is further complicated by the fact that I have always had a large number of close women friends. Whilst in some ways I feel lucky that my lack of sexual charisma has made that possible (and I wouldn’t exchange any of the warm, loving friendships I have been fortunate enough to have with women for any number of meaningless shags) I have found the lack of “sexual acknowledgment” frustrating. I think it comes under the “sexual validation” need I included in my original post on this thread. This has further complicated my life as on the rare occasions that I have discovered that a woman was interested in me romantically it has always come as a complete surprise to me.

Elfman.

Burlesque · 28-08-06 19:17:11

Liandra wrote:

Does it need to be face to face? Do you never feel acknowledged here at IFM?

While I stand in awe of Will's, Warmtouch's and The Elf's perceptiveness above and think that they have expressed most of what I would have felt inclined to say, there is one small thing I would like to add, that in my personal case is rather too important for my own good: IFM is the only place in god knows how many years where I have felt acknowledged in any way. I'll post a little something further about this on the "Secret Life" thread, but what's relevant to this particular discussion is that I have always felt welcome and relevant here, whether the discussions have been about sex or other subjects. It's an odd, unusual feeling for me, and cause for a case of mixed emotions, because if one can find acknowledgement and perhaps validation only in this anonymous, virtual (albeit lovely) little world, something must of course be wrong. Mustn't it?

To be continued over at "The Secret Life of IFM". (Generic, unimaginative thriller music rises to a wailing and rather irritating crescendo.)

Burlesque.

Warmtouch · 28-08-06 19:29:30

Elfman, I want warm loving friendships with women AND meaningless shags. Please tell me they're not mutually exclusive.

The_Elfman · 29-08-06 00:48:12

Warmtouch wrote:

Elfman, I want warm loving friendships with women AND meaningless shags. Please tell me they're not mutually exclusive.

In an ideal world no Warmtouch. If you ever come across one you will let me know, won't you?

Elfman

corey2 · 29-08-06 03:20:38

A meaningless shag?? Perposterous concept I say... they all have meaning!! Infact, the longer you go without, the more meaning they have

stammering · 29-08-06 10:47:19

There are some shags which are meaningless in that they have meaning way beyond the act itself. I'm speaking of rape. If you have been raped you know the meaning of it better than the rest of the universe. Those of us who have never been raped can only guess. Sexual experience is a matter of touch and sexual intercourse is the closest touch of all.

Adagio · 29-08-06 13:51:07

stammering wrote:

There are some shags which are meaningless in that they have meaning way beyond the act itself. I'm speaking of rape. If you have been raped you know the meaning of it better than the rest of the universe. Those of us who have never been raped can only guess. Sexual experience is a matter of touch and sexual intercourse is the closest touch of all.

This may just be my american ignorance of british slang but it is extremely incongruent to me to use the term "shag" with the act of rape. What are the conotations and nuances to this term? I've had the impression, again this may be my ignorance, that it had a more lighthearted connotation for lack of a better word.

Stammering, would you be willing to expound on your statement of sexual experience being a matter of touch? Are you saying it's ONLY a matter of touch, or primarily or ........?

I really do not desire to get into a discourse on rape but I can't not address the notion that rape has "meaning". Rape does not make sense. It is senseless. Perhaps, stammering, you meant something more like "impact" rather than meaning?

Last edited by Adagio (29-08-06 13:52:59)

The_Elfman · 29-08-06 18:00:59

Adagio wrote:

I've had the impression, again this may be my ignorance, that it had a more lighthearted connotation for lack of a better word.

My meaning exactly Adagio. To me it has a warm but casual connotation and somewhat "softer" than fuck. That was the spirit in which I used it.

Adagio wrote:

I really do not desire to get into a discourse on rape but I can't not address the notion that rape has "meaning". Rape does not make sense. It is senseless. Perhaps, stammering, you meant something more like "impact" rather than meaning?

And I don't want discuss it at all. For those of us who have been raped and still carry the scars discussion on this topic is uncomfortable to say the least. We have been here before and it caused nothing but pain. Please guys If for no other reason than as a personal favour to me may I ask that we drop it.

Thanks.

Elfman.

stammering · 29-08-06 18:05:18

Very fair comment. By the way Adagio I'm not British, but being sensitive to what Elfman has said - enough said.

Last edited by stammering (29-08-06 18:07:56)

Adagio · 29-08-06 18:05:51

I wholeheartedly agree, Elfman. Let's not go there.

Last edited by Adagio (29-08-06 18:10:17)

The_Elfman · 29-08-06 18:19:26

Thank you guys. I appreciate your sensitivity here.

Elfman.

corey2 · 30-08-06 05:12:48

Yes... I'm with Lia on this one. Burlesque is the heart and soul of this forum... it would be a crying shame to see you leave us Burley. I am sure you could be involved here and also get out and about in the "real" world.

stammering · 30-08-06 08:33:58

Burlesque when you say that you feel welcome and relevant here and then go on to say "something must be wrong" I am gobsmacked. I like to read what people say (especially you - because, among many, many other things, you are so damn funny) and I like to say some things myself, but I don't feel welcome and relevant here - so it's me that's wrong not you man - not you.

msnevil · 31-08-06 04:32:30

Burlesque, There seems to me. To be more then just a "sexual acknowledgment" issue.

For exp.,
Perhaps a need to feel loved or at least acknowledgment as a human being. With needs and feelings.

Either way, “talking via written message is therapeutic”.

A Baby will die from lack of love. So will adults. Most suicide's is not because of lack of "physical needs met". But lack of "emotional needs met".

Any type of depression. (Rather it be only sexual dependent or worse.) Needs proper therapeutic "positive" stimuli. And while, This forum might meet some of those goals. A sexual Counselor, or psychologist would be a better candidate to achieving your peak experience.

Take it from a person who has suffered depression all his life. Without the proper support of my loved one’s., family and spiritual beliefs. I would not be here this day.

Will · 31-08-06 11:16:11

msnevil, you are of course completely correct. Sex, as a human need is secondary to the need to be accepted and to be loved. That one word covers a lot of ground. Love of your family, having the love of good friends, and of course being in love. In an ideal world there would be all three. Ideally (again) the love of your family would be without question. Without good friends though I know it can be exceptionally hard.

Sex as a need differs from person to person. Personally I would class it as rather low on my list of priorities at the moment. It would have to be anyway seeing as it's been 6 months!

stammering · 31-08-06 19:46:55

I agree with everything you are saying Will, especially your comment on friends, but of course family is a given. We all have families (well most of us who are fortunate enough to know that we have got families) and yes we take them for granted sometimes. But being without friends must be terribly lonely. As for sex. Well you don't have to go any further than the mirror to meet your next sexual partner.

greycat · 01-09-06 01:50:10

Liandra wrote:

Do you never feel acknowledged here at IFM?

hi, li; acknowledged as a sexual being? no, not really, but I didn't expect that, either. it is liberating in getting to discuss things sexual. but this medium is almost impossible for giving sexual acknowledgement, at least in this direction - no one on the forum can see me, knows what I look like, can hear me, can get all the non-verbal aspects of a person, knows my name, what my life is like. I think there is no way at all that I can be reacted to sexually and therefore acknowledged sexually. we can exchange thinking by this medium, but that's about all you can know about me. in that direction, I at least know what a woman who models here looks like. with the exception of your intro video and to some degree the lucubrations, visual appearance and usually non-verbal sexual reactions are what is available on IFM unless someone posts, and then you can only type so much. on other sites like AW where there are videos that include talking with other people, discussing likes, dislikes, etc., at least some of the woman's personality has a chance to be expressed - I dont know if what I then say in a post gives the model any acknowledgment, but at least they know I have these added data beyond just what they type in a forum.

Will · 01-09-06 13:36:59

stammering wrote:

As for sex. Well you don't have to go any further than the mirror to meet your next sexual partner.

Whilst I appreciate the sentiment, I always imagined the word "partner" to mean more than one person!

And as for the whole "self" thing, to be honest that's not even an interest of mine at the moment. I've been in a bit of a down period for a while now, and whilst I'm not going to talk about it here as it's hardly the place, it has effects in numerous ways. One of which being that I have no real desire at all at the moment. Kindof defeats the purpose really of being part of a community called I feel myself....

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Sexual Needs

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