The cynicism of dating....

Will · 12-08-06 19:02:26

Right, this is a bit of a strange one, and I'm not quite sure how to get started or to express exactly what I'm thinking about, so please bear with me and excuse any rambling on my part.

I'm not a big fan of the dating scene. I feel very uncomfortable being put into that situation. I know that in the US (or at least how it's reported) that the dating world is a very cynical place. It's almost as if a date has become more of an interview, and if you don't give that amazing first impression then you are pretty much out the door. However, it's not a fear of rejection that bothers me. Not from people I don't know anyway, and not from some random girl whom I hardly know and who doesn't know me. It's actually more a fear of having to reject other people.....

Make any sense?

Let me try and explain.

I was dating a girl earlier in the year, splitting up last March. I was quite relieved at the time as we were very different people and the whole relationship was causing more negative emotion than good. I haven't been involved with anyone since. Not a problem in itself. I'm confident in who I am and in what I have to offer. The situation is not a case of people (girls) not finding me attractive as (without wishing to sound bigheaded) they occasionally do. It's more a case that I don't often have that *thunderbolt* feeling. Without it I'd rather not get involved.

Now I did get that *thunderbolt* feeling a few weeks ago. When travelling Australia I met a girl who was in my tour group, and over a few days and through a few shared experiences I really did fall for her in a way. I told her I liked her one night and we did share a kiss, however I think it was more the moment that she was caught up in. She did like me, and thought I was "lovely", but she's young and lives too far away, and not looking to get involved in anything that would involve too much effort.

Now that's fine, I appreciate the honesty and I'm not going to be left with the whole "I wish I'd said something" situation, which quite frankly is pointless. I'm a big believer in trying to grasp the moment if you can. Nothing worse than kicking yourself for letting it go by. Not a problem.

Now I've gone and done something silly. I've been home for a while now, and prompted from a female friend of mine, signed up on an internet dating website. "It's harmless, you might meet some nice people", etc etc.... Without getting into too much detail, I did it, I've met a couple of girls, supposed to meeting another tomorrow evening, but now I just feel very very cynical.

Perhaps I'm thinking too much about this. It is harmless, and I'm under no real obligation to have to do anything in particular. The two girls I've met were both very nice girls, it's just not for me. Now I find myself in the position which I hate. It seems so forced and unnatural to me.

I like the chase, I admit that. I like to fall for someone (when it happens) and then have the worry and the small victories (or big defeats) that comes with it. Dating someone to get to know someone, and then to try and find out if there is anything there worth persuing... Seems all very forced to me.

Like I said, this is a complete ramble. I'm not even trying to make some sort of coherent argument (just as well) or any specific point. I'm really just writing things down in my head. More as a case of reading them back over myself, and to see if anyone has an opinion. I do feel at times that I would like to *be in love* or whatever the hell. Hey, it's a nice feeling when it happens, and it's a rare thing. However, I simply don't have the motivation or the inclination to get involved in a dating scene which feels so alien and cynical to me. Am I right, am I wrong? Am I taking all of this far too much to heart and it shouldn't even cross my mind as an issue? I've no idea. I appreciate that I'm quite old fashioned in a lot of ways. Perhaps this old fashioned and "romantic" ideal of mine is out of date. Thing is, I don't feel that I would really want to get with the times if I am right in how I view things.....

?

Last edited by Will (12-08-06 19:05:18)

Siobhan · 12-08-06 19:18:39

I could not agree with you more, Will. I use the word "date" to mean simply that I have something scheduled on my calendar that is not completely work-related; for social interactions that may lead to romantic feelings, I never use the word. I have NO EARTHLY IDEA how people do that. I simply spend time with the people I find interesting/appealing, and after time, sometimes we fall in love. Or fall in infatuation. Or into some kind of mutual and sometimes frenzied enthusiasm which results in flowers, declarations of ardor, one-too-many-glasses of wine, someone running her/his finger around the rim of the glass one too many times, lingering looks, rapid breathing, soft tongues in one another's mouths, and the next thing you know, the room is hot and spinning and we're moaning mots malo in each other's ears.

Who needs dating?

The_Elfman · 12-08-06 20:08:57

OK so it's time for me come out of the closest on this as well Will. I've also just joined a dating site. After 12 years of flying solo I've got around to thinking that it might be nice to have someone in my life again and since all the women I meet are either much younger than me or married I thought that this would be the best way of getting a toe back in the water. I won't pretend that the whole prospect of going out and meeting someone in a romantic situation doesn't terrify me after all these years. It does. I'm sorry to hear that you feel so cynical about it Will. Perhaps your recent experiences have effected your current attitude. For my part I have no expectations. If i do meet someone special great, but if I don't I am no worse off than I am now. Let's just see what happens (for both of us).

Incidently I don't think I would have had the self confidence to do this pre-IFM so I would like to thank all of you nice people here who have made this possible for me.

Elfman.

Last edited by The_Elfman (12-08-06 20:11:11)

Siobhan · 12-08-06 20:50:59

Why thank you, joli

I came back here because I realized I'd neglected to add a hearty CONGRATS, BOY!! to Will for putting himself out there, and there are TWO people to congratulate! Way to go, Elfman!! I'm sending you both good wishes for meeting great people who get how awesome YOU are.

When Liandra and I talked for our interview, one of my favorite parts was when she spoke very sweetly and eloquently about her hope (and her knowlede of at least one person on another site) that this site could offer a sort of jumping-off point for people who were getting up the courage to put themselves out there again. kudos to you, Elfman.

Warmtouch · 13-08-06 01:56:25

Back when I was of an age and inclination to "date," I didn't. I couldn't be bothered with actually trolling for a partner. (For non-native English speakers, trolling means fishing from a slowly moving boat, hoping you will pass through some fish.) Too much trouble, too much effort. When I met somebody I liked, I asked her for lunch. No big deal. If we had fun and a lot to talk about, I asked her for dinner. No big deal. If we had fun and a lot to talk about, I asked her for another dinner. And so on. Pretty straightforward. I didn't agonize about it. The surest sign that it wasn't going to work was if conversation became awkward.

I once sort of accidentally fell in love with a MAN -- and I'm pretty darn straight -- simply because we could talk for hours and hours. It was amazing. We just clicked. But when I tried, intentionally, to think about him sexually, it didn't happen, like a dead battery. Interesting: nothing. But I guess I sort of loved him, in a way. A male-friend way. I don't have a lot of them.

Anyway, the lunches and dinners were close on thirty years ago now, and I'm sure if I had to try to find a partner now it would be much harder because so many of them are taken. Not that I was Casanova back then, by any means -- until a few years ago I'd only had sex with about 5 people in my whole life.

The only advice I can think of is, if it happens, you'll know. Don't sweat it. If you find you really like the other's company and want to spend more time with them and don't find yourself having second thoughts, that's it. If you're getting dead batteries, move on. Don't worry about asking "is this the one?" You WILL know.

distantadmirer · 13-08-06 03:20:14

Hey Will,

Over here we call it the over coffee in Barnes&Nobel hope for the best dating date.
Barnes&Nobel in the USA is a big chain bookstore.

The_West_Wind · 14-08-06 03:00:28

You have to ask yourself what is wrong with the world when something as human as dating has to be treated like a job interview and love is equated to how much money you make.

Will · 14-08-06 11:19:19

I think I've given the wrong impression. I'm not being cynical about any particular form of dating, be it internet dating, speed dating, asking out a girl you meet in the supermarket..... Nor am I suggesting that there is anything wrong with any of it. As with anything and everything it is purely a personal choice, and what works for one person might/does not work for another. All I am suggesting (in my poorly structured rant) was that I am growing very cyncial over the whole thing. It's something I have never found natural or comfortable. It's completely personal.

Last edited by Will (14-08-06 11:19:43)

The_Elfman · 14-08-06 12:37:05

Liandra wrote:

Oh no, I wasn't thinking you were bagging the whole idea, I just thought you might want to hear that for some people it works, but takes a little tenacity and patience.
I also have a mate who goes to a dinner conversation class! I thought it was hilarious, but then he reminded me that I frequently put my foot in my mouth when I'm nervous and that is not the hill he wants to die on. He does appear to be getting more confident...

Yes I think it is whatever you feel the most comfortable with and clubs, classes etc are a great way to meet people and get to know them. (Many of the Am-Dram societies I am involved with have lots of couples who first met with the society).
I think the best relationships are often the ones which grow out of friendships. Most of mine have been like that. You have the time to really get to know someone without any pressure before any of the romantic/sexual complications gets started.

Will I realised that your comments were purely personal. Don't worry I wont be letting them effect my views on dating sites mate.

(By the way I've had three emails so far from women on my dating site if anyone is interested. Two in the USA and one in Nairobi!!! Who stole all of the Yorkshire women? ).

Elfman

Last edited by The_Elfman (14-08-06 12:38:57)

Siobhan · 14-08-06 12:39:02

Well done, Elfman! Please let us know if you'd like us to vet them for you

The_Elfman · 14-08-06 12:47:10

Siobhan wrote:

Well done, Elfman! Please let us know if you'd like us to vet them for you

Siobhan if I let you vet them you'd probably want to keep the best ones for yourself .

Elfman.

Siobhan · 14-08-06 13:08:13

Ah, dear Elfman, not atall. I've got my own personals responses to plow through, you know.
It's just that
we all know you're a very special and highly deserving candidate for love and affection -- I want to ensure that these women all get that, and all pass muster! But I'm sure you're highly qualified in the arts of discernment. As for keeping
the best ones" to myself, I seem to recall that you've said you are drawn to small, waify blondes, whereas I am drawn to lots of people but typically find myself with strong lithe brunettes.

Burlesque · 14-08-06 13:20:15

I myself am terribly easy. I generally go for "Woooo-maaaan!" to quote that luminary Animal from the Muppets.

Burlesque.

Siobhan · 14-08-06 13:40:57

Yes to that. That's been the way it's always happened for me (except for travel romances, of course, where there's not the time for the long, slow unfolding of friendly intimacies that undergird romantic and erotic desire). That leads us to Siobhan's famous (around these parts) "Six month rule," which I've been wanting to -- not dismiss, exactly, but -- revisit in light of what I've learned from this site. One of the questions I asked Liandra in our phone conversation -- ah! there you are, Li! -- was about the (new to me) concept of sex as recreation. I suppose I've done that quite a bit with men, but never with women, with whom there have always been these many layers of emotional history and meaning and anticipation and longing attached to our ultimate coupling. What I've been doing in holding off, I see now, in an effort to make everything so filled with meaning and strong emotion, is making it impossible to part ways without ripping myself open every time. and the other person as well.

God, i do go on. ::yawn::

Siobhan · 14-08-06 13:42:21

whoops. I was responding to a quote from Elfman which appears to have disappeared. . . sorry, folks.

The_Elfman · 14-08-06 14:11:16

Sorry Siobhan I deleted my post because I wanted to expand on it. Didn’t realise it would take me so long. Sorry for the confusion. Here it is:

Siobhan wrote:

As for keeping the best ones" to myself, I seem to recall that you've said you are drawn to small, waify blondes, whereas I am drawn to lots of people but typically find myself with strong lithe brunettes.

Ok I'll pass you all my athletic brunettes if you'll let me have your petite blondes

One of the oddest things about this dating game for me is that I am now looking to meet single women of about my own age (mid fifthties). My last relationship was one of those that grew out of a friendship with a woman I worked with. We were friends for nearly two years before we became a couple (she was 36 then).

I'm going to lay myself open to attack for all sort of reasons here but I think that it would serve no purpose for me to be less than honest on how I feel about this. Firstly I have never been involved with anyone over fifty before. On the face of it this sounds like a stupid thing to say considering that I am 54 but think about it for a minute. I am actively seeking a relationship with someone twenty years older than any woman I have previously had a relationship with. Can you see why I find this slightly disconcerting?

Secondly (and this is the contentious bit) I don't really find myself attracted to middle aged women. Now I am no oil painting. There isn't a long line of beautiful twenty somethings outside my door fighting for my attentions (I've checked). I have to be realistic about my expectations I know. But physical attraction is important (at least in the early stages until you get to know someone). I don't want to give the impression that I am shallow and superficial. I don’t think that I am. I’m just trying to highlight some of the problems and worries for middle aged people who are looking to start dating again after being “off the market” for a number of years. (And there are more of us around than you might think).

Elfman.

Last edited by The_Elfman (14-08-06 14:14:08)

Siobhan · 14-08-06 14:20:06

I could not agree more. I think about that a LOT since having discovered IFM.
Actually the post that was deleted that I was responding to was onewhere someone excerpted your good thoughts about how you felt the best romantic relationships often grew out of friendship. I'll go back later and edit mine to make sense, meanwhile, I'm glad you have brought the age-ism boogeyman up -- it's high time we all look at it. Even those who are NOT yet dealing with that issue will do so one day (if they live past their youth; we're all missing someone who died too early for our liking), so i think it's worth addressing. i'm off to work. more later.

Warmtouch · 14-08-06 19:10:09

Not that it's the same thing at ALL, but for the most part I'm not interested in filles de joie who are under about 30, although I'll make an exception for especially articulate ones. There has to be *some* common ground.

Or perhaps older ones support the delusion that they are enjoying themselves in my company, while with a 22-year-old I couldn't possibly trick myself into believing it.

I suspect, Elfman, that you're just not in the habit of looking at more mature women, or looking at them in the right way. As I've said, I would really like a tumble with Susan Sarandon. She's just got it.

As for Yorkshire lasses -- ee doon't have a chance, man. Since pit closed, none of the lads have jobs, have tha? So the lasses are all off to London to be hairdressers and such.

The_Elfman · 15-08-06 09:04:33

Warmtouch wrote:

I suspect, Elfman, that you're just not in the habit of looking at more mature women, or looking at them in the right way. As I've said, I would really like a tumble with Susan Sarandon. She's just got it.

This is undoubtedly correct. I have to "re-train" my perceptions. Of course I would hate anyone to think that what I said in my post above is going to deter me in my quest for a partner. Trust me I am not really that shallow.

Warmtouch wrote:

As for Yorkshire lasses -- ee doon't have a chance, man. Since pit closed, none of the lads have jobs, have tha? So the lasses are all off to London to be hairdressers and such.

And I thought that they were too intimidated by the power of my personality to reply. Yeah, lets go with that one. (Actually Max thought my profile was "interesting". That's the kiss of death when a woman says that about you ).

Elfman

Last edited by The_Elfman (15-08-06 09:21:03)

Burlesque · 15-08-06 11:07:26

I've heard the following nails-in-the-coffin from women: "There's nothing wrong with the way you look" (this may be true), "You are a really nice guy" (which I'm not), "You're so cozy" (very bad translation into English, but what the lady in question really meant was "You're a wimp", which is absolutely correct), "We should have sex in the bushes right now" (Yes, she actually said that, but it was intended as sarcasm), and - my personal favourite - "You're a typical male friend" (I've actually had several versions of that comment).

It would almost be worth it getting back out there, just to collect a few more delicate euphemisms and the occasional brutal putdown for my memoirs .

Burlesque.

Warmtouch · 15-08-06 11:19:51

Burlesque wrote:

..."We should have sex in the bushes right now" (Yes, she actually said that, but it was intended as sarcasm)...
Burlesque.

How do you say "We should have sex in the bushes right now?" in Swedish? I visit Sweden occasionally, I might want to use that line.

On second thought, maybe not. Most Swedish girls look pretty sturdy, I bet they can throw a mean punch...

Burlesque · 15-08-06 11:31:40

This one had a sturdy mind (we were actually friends for years after this not so delicate putdown ), but physically, you're thinking about vikings now, not the lovely Swedish ladies of today. Besides, I think that under the right circumstances a such a comment would be just right. If the lady gets nasty about it, you can pretend that you've just heard it somewhere and don't really know what it means .

"Vi borde ha sex i buskarna omedelbart," was what she actually said, which more closely translated means "We should have sex in the bushes immediately."

Burlesque.

Last edited by Burlesque (15-08-06 11:32:01)

Burlesque · 15-08-06 12:06:17

Obviously, he deserved that and more where that came from. Even I, who tend to run for cover whenever a woman is about to utter her opinion of me, think that you couldn't have abused that slimeball enough. "Then I'd have to kill you before you told anyone." Beautiful!

Burlesque.

Will · 15-08-06 13:05:44

Personally I think he should have lost some teeth as a result.

Burlesque · 15-08-06 13:12:27

That would indeed have been a valid, alternate treatment of his condition.

Burlesque.

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