Anyone here been to Japan or live there.

blissed · 08-08-09 16:11:56

In Shinto the religion of Japan, homosexuality has traditionally been accepted especially amongst warriors and I might be wrong but Shinto doesn't seem to have a prescriptive way for people to live sexually. Western values came in in the 19th century but they seem to have a short tenure and seem to be more superficially held than the Shinto and Buddhist traditions. Must be nice knowing that the anti-sex western hangup is impossible to present there as "how it's always been" and so I would think that makes the concept of enjoying sex more comfortable and accessible, with knock on effects for social attitudes to all things sexual including law making.

Yeah I'm into Japan, it's my big thing at the moment :)

Anyway, any thoughts?
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Vouageur · 09-08-09 08:24:51

I spent a year in southern Honshu (1964 Iwakuni). I was young and confused but I certainly didn't want to come home. It is agonizing that I cannnot express how it affected me. So many essences were so exquisit; bamboo forests, shrines, mountains that march into the sea, the lifestyle etc etc.. Does that world still exist? So here I am posing as a latent romantic, or maybe just old and confused.
Have you seen the Japanese ceremonial drummers? Zen archery!!

smokey1200 · 11-08-09 17:57:43

Well in times of economic crisis their Sex Hotels are doing very well. That industry is thriving! I was there in the 90s when I was about 9/10 years old and I remember all video shops having quite a thorough collection of porn, of course in the back.

On television they only seem to block images of bush and genitalia - I think this kind of censorship even extends to porn. Breasts are fine.

They have other ceremonies that celebrate the body like the Penis celebration, I think it is more about fertility than just the penis. So there's some symbolism there for you.

Why does this aspect of Japnese religion intrigue you?

I must say in comparison western hegemonies are far more narrow and limiting than others around the world.

blissed · 11-08-09 20:30:35

Excuse this post but I did say this my big fad at the moment

smokey1200 wrote:

Why does this aspect of Japnese religion intrigue you?
I must say in comparison western hegemonies are far more narrow and limiting than others around the world.

Japanese culture is superficially similar to ours but actually quite different. So is interesting and the main religion of a culture tends to hold many of the answers as to why.

So why else is it interesting?
Nowhere is perfect but in Japan homosexuality was only ever illegal for 7 years in the 19th century, it has the same gross national product as the USA per capita but they do that with each person having around 8% of the space and land resources and the 2 religious ideologies Shinto and Buddhism live in harmony.

Then there's crime, the differences here are almost comical. Well actually they are

Murders per 100,000.
1. Russia Federation 18.07
2. United States 6.32
3. Malaysia 2.73
Taiwan 1.17
Spain 1.08
Japan 0.58

Rape per 100,000.
1. United States 34.20
2. England and Wales 14.69
3. France 13.38
Taiwan 8.82
South Korea 4.38
Spain 3.23
Japan 1.48

Serious Assault per 100,000.
1. Australia 713.68
2. England & Wales 405.20
3. United States 357.94
Taiwan 37.30
Spain 23.94
Japan 15.40

Robbery/Violent Theft per 100,000.
1. Spain 169.85
2. United States 169.02
3. France 144.10
Taiwan 14.35
South Korea 11.74
Japan 2.71

People who have lost their jobs and homes in the recession pitch family sized tents on waste ground in the city. They go off and look for work leaving all there books TV's computers and god knows what else in a tent IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CITY!!!

Vouageur wrote:

Have you seen the Japanese ceremonial drummers? Zen archery!!

Thanks Vouageur I'll have to look into those.

Smokey I'll have to look into the Penis celebration too.

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aven frey · 11-08-09 21:34:45

Crime stats are usually collated according to convictions and would therefore also be indicative of the culture of the legal system, not just the amount of crime but I guess that should be reflective of the social standards of that country anyway. It just seems strange to me that Russia has so many murders but then features no where else in these stats. That's very interesting.
I've only been to Japan once and only Tokyo and only for a week but it was very beautiful and I felt very safe, although I like every other lady on the subway at peak will eventually, got felt up. Like everywhere though there are some not so wonderful things. In my times I've been friends with a couple of Japanese women and a few people who have lived in Japan for a time, from what I gathered from them Japanese society still adheres to very rigid gender rolls. It's also been suggested that the massive dominance of consumerism and capitalism there makes for a somewhat generally empty and disconnected culture. However these things may be more a very post second world war Japan, one I've exaggerated in my head from reading Haruki Murakami (which you should give a go Blissed, I know you're not into books but he's very accessible, although dark) There is definitely a bit a challenge to those things by Japanese kids today. So much cools stuff comes out of there.

smokey1200 · 12-08-09 00:56:42

bobby wrote:

Crime stats are usually collated according to convictions and would therefore also be indicative of the culture of the legal system, not just the amount of crime but I guess that should be reflective of the social standards of that country
Japanese society still adheres to very rigid gender rolls.
It's also been suggested that the massive dominance of consumerism and capitalism there makes for a somewhat generally empty and disconnected culture. However these things may be more a very post second world war Japan...

Bobby I think you're right, post war japan attempted to mimic American culture after their display of force. Simple things like electricity, they both share 110 volts and the same | | plugs. I'm sure there are more, but i haven't slept yet and my knowledge about this is quite limited.

Blissed if you're really keen then look back into the past, study japan from at least 500 years ago. I'm not sure how long and when japan was a feudal nation. I have grown up around japan (mother being an expert, sadly that doesn't transfer by blood) from about age 2-3 and went back when i was 9-10. Martial arts is a key part of japanese history. Look into concepts of Ki and Budo. Ki being the energy force of the universe (i think) and budo regards to the practice of martial arts and in some way ki. This i guess is one aspect of the mind set of japanese people and how they interact and combat with each other.

There are also things like honor codes and face. For example, in japan if you happen to help someone they can feel indebted to you for the rest of their lives which might explain why sometimes when someone falls passerbys do not engage with the fallen. this can introduce a level of embarrassment and subsequently guilt. I'm not sure if this guilt thing has anything to do with people not reporting rapes etc. I'm sure there are some deeper seeded fucked up things going on in the mind of the average japanese, just look at some of their hentai (some of the most risky stuff, exploring ideas and concepts sexually that most in the west wouldn't even want to consider). But this is my assumption.

one more example, in most cases if you are to leave your bag on a table in somewhere like a food court, there is a good chance that you can leave and come back in a few hours and it will not have moved.

sorry this post has no real structure, just random thoughts loosely tied together.

there are heaps and heaps of little customs and etiquettes that you have to be very aware of when at different settings, dinners, meetings, arriving etc.

see if they have any culture shock videos about japan on youtube.

blissed · 12-08-09 01:13:17

smokey1200 wrote:

I'm sure there are some deeper seeded fucked up things going on in the mind of the average japanese, just look at some of their hentai (some of the most risky stuff, exploring ideas and concepts sexually that most in the west wouldn't even want to consider). But this is my assumption.

mmmmmmmmmmmm tentacles....

Thanks for all that smokey I have some googling to do now.

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smokey1200 · 12-08-09 01:19:23

blissed wrote:

mmmmmmmmmmmm tentacles....

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yeah i've seen that one... but it wasn't hentai. *shudder*

and welcome

remember you can look up books with http://books.google.com/

blissed · 12-08-09 01:58:27

Bobby Thanks for telling me about Haruki Murakami but what happens if my Japanese fad runs out before I've finished the book, what will I do :) I think the Russian stat is there just because it's so high (the UK only has one there too for serious assault) and I might be wrong but I wouldn't be surprised if all the other crime figures from Russia are dodgy, but deaths and the cause of death have to be publicly recorded by other agencies.

bobby wrote:

There is definitely a bit a challenge to those things by Japanese kids today. So much cools stuff comes out of there.

Yeah it does! what's interesting too is the interaction between conservative and radical and areas of friction and conflict there generally seem to be less aggressive, probably not surprising considering Smokeys comment about marshall arts being a cultural backbone.

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blissed · 12-08-09 01:59:53

smokey1200 wrote:

remember you can look up books with http://books.google.com/

Thanks for that link too.

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Vouageur · 12-08-09 17:55:41

SAMURAI ARCHERS keywod is YABUSAME exhilarating
Cermonial Drummers KODO of SADO island

blissed · 12-08-09 19:14:48

Thanks, I had a search around youtube. I think it's clever how Samurai archers fire arrows from horseback, it's the best I can do to cling on and thats failed a couple of times.

Then there's the KODO drumming of SADO island. Not really a groove but using rythm to release energy similar to rock music/ rock n roll and same tempos and same energy in the singing with the voice pushed into raspishness, nice shots of Japan too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5icrBJkz44

Then there's Kodo as androsexual spectacle with rows of fit naked men banging big drums :)

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Folly · 13-08-09 08:04:53

We had a Japanese drumming group in my high school, even though just the geeks were in that group I couldn't help being affected by the sound and the ceremony of it.

smokey1200, I wouldn't say that the fantasies represented in hentai shows fucked up things going on in the minds of the Japanese. In fact I am really getting into hentai at the moment and am totally intrigued by the extent of it.
I think that being animated, hentai is a safe, unexploitative way to explore the realms of human sexual fantasy. The characters can do anything, fuck anything, become anything. It pushes the boundaries of our imagination which can be a huge turn on. Like what if a tentacles creature with multiple phallic appendages could fuck someone, what if a girl was made entirely of goo, what would a giantess do with you and your tiny body?
One thing that gets me though is that there always seems to be at least one female that is protesting the sexual acts that are being done to her until she likes it. But again, it's a cartoon, and a relatively safe depiction of rape as a fantasy (this has been discussed before on here I'm sure).
However another type of hentai I've seen a lot of lately is futanari or dick girls. These apparently aren't transexuals or hemaphrodites, they have tits and pussies and dicks too. As much as I'm not hugely into dick, I am finding these pretty hot because of the way it changes the power role of the female, just by putting a cock on her.
On the English message boards I've seen discuss futanari, there is some criticism that a male who likes those pictures must be gay. But I think that it's typical of Westerners to have to put these categories on everything, and perhaps like you were saying Blissed, that these pictures are evident in Japanese Hentai, shows a more open-minded attitude.
And I'll just mention one more while I'm on the hentai tangent. I saw a manga where a girl with a dick had this magical orb that could take her cock off her body and insert it in her own vagina, hence she had the sensation of both fucking and being fucked by herself. Perhaps that's fucked up, but to me it's pure genius!

Also re: Bobby being felt up in the subway: Some Japanese women, the girls that you may have seen pictures of with bright orange tans and white lipstick and eye make up, actually make themselves up like that so that Japanese men will find them repulsive and not make advances towards them. It's like an armour.
I read a great book called Kickboxing Geishas about gender roles in Japanese society. Highly recommended.
I'm interested by the salary-man culture in Japan. Incredibly difficult for women to break into, but at the same time an incredibly difficult life for anyone to lead. Working long hours and commuting great distances, barely seeing their wives and families. Nope that doesn't appeal to me and my gen y lifestyle.

shasei42 · 23-08-09 08:50:34

Blissed,

I am from Japan (now I live in the U.S., but I was born and lived there for 20 some years).

1) Shinto/Buddhism and sexuality: Compared to some Western countries, Japan is pretty relaxed, when comes to sexuality. Having said that, "officially" there is a censorship. You can't show genitals in movies/videos/publications. An interesting point. "unofficially" you can get uncensored materials. They are called "ura" (backside) materials. Illegal, but easily obtainable.

One good thing about having the censorship is that you can't focus on genitals because then all scene would be blurred. On camera angles etc., you have to use lots of imagination. If you have not seen Japanese AVs, I highly recommend them. Because they can't show "the most important part," they must be quite creative. And actually it could enhance eroticism/sensuality.
(the complete opposite is some adult videos here that only shows genitals. Very boring to me)

I think this forced creativity has something to do with "hentai" culture (other factors are stress and the sense of "I have seen everything else. I need more extreme stuff.")

As for homosexuality, there is social stigma, to be sure. But they don't consider it a sin. Heck, they don't have the concept of the sin. I would imagine Thailand is the same way.

When I grew up, in a normal bookstore, we could see homosexual magazines right next to Playboy or other "normal" erotic magazines. We knew that some people preferred the same sex even when we were kids. It was just a fact of life.

Some other points about homosexuality in Japan.
- Lesbians are more accepted than gays (males), generally speaking.
- transvestites are also OK.
- it was fashionable to go to gay bar. (been there once for my friend's bachelor party myself. That was, let's say, an interesting experience)

One important thing about homosexuality in Japan is the lack of violence against them. No gay bashing. "Normal" people's reaction could be, "ugh, gross!" But never, "That's wrong! I will beat you up!!" It's just not in their thinking.

In my high school, all of us knew who was a gay. (he was famous for that) But we never touched him. We just left him alone.
Also, I asked one Japanese seaman (I worked for a shipping company) if he saw any gays on the ship. His answer was that if you have 20-30 people, one could be a gay. I asked him what he did about gays. He simply shrugged his shoulder and said, "That's that, just the way it is."

I mentioned those episodes because even high school kids or seamen (very macho people) don't touch them. We leave them alone.

Finally, you are correct that some samurai practiced homosexuality. And Yukio Mishima, a famous Japanese writer embraced samurai way of life including homosexuality. (he went too far and committed samurai style suicide)

2) if you are curious about other aspects of Japanese culture, let me know.
As somebody mentioned, "Kafka on the Shore" by Haruki Murakami is a good book to have a glimpse of Shinto's effects on Japanese culture. John Updike wrote a good review on it.

Last edited by shasei42 (23-08-09 11:35:29)

blissed · 23-08-09 23:42:10

Thanks very much for all that shasei42 it's really interesting, I'm doing some googling now.

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blissed · 24-08-09 02:00:53

shasei42 wrote:

Heck, they don't have the concept of the sin.

Thats really interesting

article on shinto wrote:

Shinto has no concept of sin; rather, it teaches that evil actions can contaminate individuals by causing them to accrue impurities that poison innocence and offend the kami.(everything thats wonderful and good) This is called tsumi: the quality of impurity.

http://shawcss.tripod.com/shinto.htm

Purifying ceremonies restore innocence and therefore trust and Japanese society does seem innocent and there seems to be very little cynicism and therefore a more conservative society that at the same time seems less judgmental.

So you have things happening that are unacceptable here like the junior idol thing or the guy who has 28 love dolls in his apartment who isn't bullied.
I think this thing of everyone leaving people alone and not bullying is marvelous.

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shasei42 · 24-08-09 10:24:13

1) Lack of sin: probably the concept of accumulating impurities came from Buddhism, just like karma. If I remember correctly, it is called "gou."

I am not sure Japanese society is innocent. But it has this thing called "misogi." That's a purification. Say, a politician gets busted for corruptions. He/she apologizes and begs for forgiveness in next election. It is called "misogi" election. I am not a Christian. But it might be somewhat similar to the practice of confession.

2) cynicism : I think that society is cynical. But probably they deal with it in different ways. Or you can say cynicism manifests in different ways. For example, the suicide rate for the young is very high. Also you see many Japanese cartoons with young women (often times) slaying bizarre monsters. That's their way of escaping the reality and "move into" fantasy. In a sense, Japan is a high-stress society.

3) Conservative? It is fairly conservative. But when comes to sexuality, they are quite tolerant. Have you ever heard of maid cafe? Google that.
(No, not sushi on a naked woman. That hardly happens. Very much exaggerated) It does not mean that they are NOT judgmental. Often times they are. Just not in this area.

4) 28 love dolls and other hobbies: These guys could be judged if they are, overall, losers. If you can a keep a job and can date with women, you would be OK even with those hobbies. But if you are a stalker type who can't even talk to women, they WILL judge you. People won't judge you just based on that. It is just one factor.

Another thing to remember is, homosexuality has been accepted for ages (sort of). Collecting love dolls and costume plays are fairly recent. I tell you, you would be better of being a gay than collecting 28 love dolls.

5) Kami : it literally means a god. It is said that 8 million gods reside in Japan! (I kid you not). Their belief is based on animism. Ocean, old trees, lakes, ponds, fish, huge animals, mountains..., all those are gods. If you are interested in how it works, watch Hayao Miyazaki's "Spirited Away" or "Mononoke Princess."

This "gods are everywhere" idea extends to even human-made things. You can "infuse a soul" into your creation (especially statutes), and make it alive/divine. The major reason why the Japanese have no reservation whatsoever about robots. (making the inanimate animate)

Another interesting concept is "Tatari." Google it. I think you would find the concept fascinating.

BTW, have you ever wondered why those monster slayers in Japanese cartoons are women, not men?

Last edited by shasei42 (24-08-09 10:27:44)

blissed · 25-08-09 19:37:05

Nope but you've gotta tell me now though :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phfKFULZ … 8C&index=4
Look's interesting, though I'd try and see it subtitled in English rather than overdubbed, then you get the original vocal emotions which are quite important. Imagine Harry Potter overdubbed with American voices, nothing wrong with American voices but Harry's British so it would take something away from the original.

I googled "Tatari Japan" and it means Great curse by gods, ghosts or dead people, like disasters and plague.

Though when I first googled Tatari on it's own I got this :)

http://www.tatariconstruction.com/

I think it's kind of the reverse of where English words are used in Japan sometimes when it's obvious they don't know what they mean. So yeah, Cursed Disaster Plague kitchens are nice but a bit too expensive :)

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artist_charlotte_v · 26-08-09 02:05:36

I loved Tokyo and plan on going back there as soon as possible. While Japan is rich with history and culture it was the seedy/weird stuff like the love hotels, 9 level sex stores and Maid Cafes that really interested me.

This probably sounds terrible but I had kinda hoped to be felt up on the train as some sort of cultural rite of passage/fantasy fulfilment.

ngaio · 26-08-09 06:08:11

To be honest, I kind of understand that. I have some Japan related plans in the future and though I think if I was actually felt up, I would actually just get incredibly upset, angry and possibly violent... it's a fantasy I've worked with in my head before.

smokey1200 · 26-08-09 09:26:42

shasei42 wrote:

1)
5) Kami : it literally means a god. It is said that 8 million gods reside in Japan! (I kid you not). Their belief is based on animism. Ocean, old trees, lakes, ponds, fish, huge animals, mountains..., all those are gods. If you are interested in how it works, watch Hayao Miyazaki's "Spirited Away" or "Mononoke Princess."

I am to understand that one of my mothers very dear friends in japan has supposedly been possessed by a Fox Spirit. She is terminally ill with cancer but for some reason whenever she has people around this Spirit Feeds off their energy and in turns makes them ill while she looks incredibly bright and active.

Supposedly she went through some amount of great grief in her early 30s and that is when the spirit entered her.

blissed · 27-08-09 00:32:25

Smokey, as our minds are home to our creative thoughts and imagination, it sounds like this lady has lifelong ongoing clinical depression and the spirit is an imaginative expression of that. I wonder if there is a Shinto ceremony that can "purify" her and "exorcise" the spirit. Ceremonies like this are a form of hypnotism and can be very effective at getting to our subconscious and altering it. If your someone like me who puts skeptical question marks around these concepts they don't work so well, but as this lady believes them to be real, a ceremonial treatment could be effective, is there a ceremonial exorcism in Shinto.

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blissed · 29-08-09 22:42:24

As long as the bunnies enjoy it this seems like a pretty good idea.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-p … 228439.stm

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blissed · 29-08-09 23:14:09

Heres a video looking at Japanese culture in relation to the elections, it also features one of the small camps in the city I mentioned earlier in the thread, where people live in tents with all their possessions.

http://player.sbs.com.au/naca/#/naca/wn … the-polls/

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shasei42 · 10-09-09 01:42:21

- why monster slayers are often times women/girls (instead of men) in Japanese anime.

My theory is, it's all about goddess. We are yearning for the goddess's return to our lives. Why was the Da Vinci Code so wildy popular? Remember who kicked the Alien Queen's ass? We have been missing Goddess for about 2,000 years. I think unconsciously we are looking for the sacred feminine. it 's about time. We, men, screwed up a bit.

Dubbing v. Subtitling. Disney have done a decent job of dubbing. It is not that bad.

- Wanna be felt up?

Used to be very common. Not anymore. If you get caught, you would make a national news! Your family will know. And you WILL lose your job! Not worth it. You have missed your chance, my friend. If you insist, I would volunteer to feel you up. (yes, yes, I am willing to sacrifice myself for the team....) :-)

- Fox

Fox is famous for possessing people. Don't you guys have an old story about summoning spirit if you see yourself in the mirror at night? Or something like that? Fox is a Japanese version of it. Not the worst type, though. I might have mentioned, but the spirit of a well is considered very scary. (perhaps because of it's importance) For both, there is purification process. (something like exorcism)

- Bunny.

Japan is experimenting with therapy animals. Funky ones are robot animals b/c they don't pose sanitation issues at hospital. Or you don't need to feed/let them exercise (easier for old people)

-Tatari Kitchen

Now, that's wild. Ignorance is a bliss. No way I would buy the kitchen. BTW, a living person's tatari considered pretty scary and powerful.

- Tent City

Used to be in Shinjuku area. I think they cleaned it up because it was becoming massive. I was a bit amused by the ingenuity of people living there. You know, cardboard box houses with small TVs etc. That's quite innovative.

Other Japanese sex stuff.

You should check out rope bondage and sex toys (start with Hitachi Magic Wand: women's best friend), if you have not. Or very kinky one = Bukkake (cum shower)

Last edited by shasei42 (10-09-09 03:18:45)

#1 08-08-09 16:11:56

Anyone here been to Japan or live there.

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