#1 29-06-22 01:04:25

MS2020

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Registered: 06-11-20

Posts: 196

How did your first Hear Gay?

So for Pride month I wanted to raise the question of when you can remember first learning about gay life? Not how you currently identify or a coming out story. Rather how did you first learn that something other than boy meets girl-because men and women-get married narrative exists.

What got me thinking about this is the wave of legislation in various parts of the United States right now trying to keep information about gay life out of school. Pushed under the banner of parental rights and not forcing explicit sex on the very young, the fine print of the bills makes any talk or teaching of gay life to multiple grade level suspect. Called Don't Say Gay laws in by some opponents, has lead to the more insidious attempt to rebrand anyone one you defends gay life a "groomer." There's a lot of coverage of this going to find and I'd rather not go looking for even the most reliable sources right now. Because the ramifications are scary.

A major problems with these kind of ideology control in education in guise of "protection children" is that assumes that young people can understand what it means to be gay without going all manner of sex acts. I don't remember when I first learned that some men only love other men (and vis versa women) but I understood it perfectly well before the age of 12. All without out knowing anything about different ways of "doing it" then.

One of my favorite movies growing up was The Lion King. I listened to the whole soundtrack for many nights. I didn't know what a legend Elton John was at that point. It was my first awareness that joyful songs could come from a gay person. A few years later the coming out of Ellen Degeneres was a major talking point in my home and first year of high school. I could get into more details about the different attitudes around me and how they gradually shaped my own views. But first I want to hear your won stories. How did you first Hear Gay and were your a young person at the time.

maurice_B

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Registered: 02-01-17

Posts: 130

Re: How did your first Hear Gay?

I spent my first six school years abroad in a place where it was totally normal for male friends to hug and to stroll around the schoolyard arm in arm. I loved this as I’ve always been a very physical person and found myself attracted to boys (although to a lesser extent) as well as to girls at the time. There was no sex ed in our school, so I wasn’t really influenced in any way and just thought of all kinds of attraction as perfectly normal.

That changed completely when my family moved back to my home country. At age 12 and approaching puberty, derogative versions of ‘gay’ were suddenly the main swearwords in my new little world. I hadn’t even heard the word ‘gay’ before at that point and had to find out its meaning in a roundabout way (asking directly would obviously have meant making a complete fool of myself). Learning that any kind of physical relations between men were seen as despicable came as a major shock to me. Whatever happened on that front at our school (and a lot did happen, as I was to find out) had to be kept well behind closed doors.

Three years later my world opened up again when I joined a sports club with an openly gay coach. In this bubble any display of affection between no matter whom was welcome and obviously this resonated with me, so the club soon became my social comfort zone as a teenager. This was also where I found out about gay relationships, gay sex and what it means to live as an openly gay person in a hostile Catholic environment (not so hostile anymore these days, happily).

I no longer identify as bisexual today but again, this change wasn’t influenced by anybody. I’m absolutely positive there’s no way you can be ‘groomed’ to be anything, or protect your child against homosexuality (why you should even want to do that is beyond me really), and that denying people to freely live with the partner of their choice is cruel to the extreme.

Mikaela

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Registered: 11-10-19

Posts: 142

Re: How did your first Hear Gay?

I don't recall a specific time when I became aware of gay. When I started paying attention the sex and relationships, I knew it was a thing, but I didn't really stop to think about what it meant - it was just a different way of doing things in my mind.

I grew up in a pretty small town, and I do distinctly remember that there was a hairdresser that was referred to as the “gay hairdresser” by everyone. That’s probably my most concrete memory of the word being assigned to someone in my childhood. Again, I didn’t actually understand what it meant.

My brother came out to me and my family in my late teens, and that was when I really became aware of what it meant to be gay (in terms of the difficulty he faced and the shame he had been feeling for such a long time). It was heartbreaking hearing him preface his statement with "please don't hate me...". This was when same-sex marriage wasn't legal in Australia, and I remember thinking how cruel it was that someone could be denied that right when all they were doing, was loving someone of the same sex.

_redbird_

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Registered: 22-04-16

Posts: 387

Re: How did your first Hear Gay?

Ooh great post MS2020! I also can't remember when I first learned about gay people. As I grew up with a hippie Mum who was very open about sex and sexuality, I feel like maybe I must have asked her about it at some stage when I was little and she would have told me in a frank but informative way? For as long as I can remember I was always attracted to men and women, so it didn't even properly occur to me that people had strong preferences one way or another. I also used to get super confused by anyone with androgynous looks and would assume they were the gender I thought they most looked like (for example, I was convinced that David Bowie was a woman in Labyrinth so thought that the dance with Jareth and Sarah was a cute lesbian dance).

The first time I can properly remember witnessing a gay couple though was at the wake for my great Aunt when I was 7 and we were at a pub near Melbourne and a middle aged couple left together in their convertible (one of those old vintage kinds like "Bessie", the car Jon Pertwee had in Doctor Who) but because it was winter, they were both wearing furry hats and big coats. I remember one of my more conservative relatives tittering about them, and I asked Mum what she was saying and Mum told me "She was just commenting about how those men are gay" and I can remember being vaguely underwhelmed by this revelation, because growing up in a tiny and rough town meant that gay people held this almost mythical quality to me, because (as far as I knew) I'd never seen a gay person before, so when I saw a super regular looking pair of men who's only note-worthy quality was the fact they were in a convertible during a Melbourne winter, I was a bit confused as to why these men didn't act or look like the queer people I'd seen in movies.

Last edited by _redbird_ (12-07-22 08:59:44)

MS2020

Member

Registered: 06-11-20

Posts: 196

Re: How did your first Hear Gay?

The first time I can properly remember witnessing a gay couple though was at the wake for my great Aunt when I was 7 and we were at a pub near Melbourne and a middle aged couple left together in their convertible (one of those old vintage kinds like "Bessie", the car Jon Pertwee had in Doctor Who) but because it was winter, they were both wearing furry hats and big coats. I remember one of my more conservative relatives tittering about them, and I asked Mum what she was saying and Mum told me "She was just commenting about how those men are gay" and I can remember being vaguely underwhelmed by this revelation, because growing up in a tiny and rough town meant that gay people held this almost mythical quality to me, because (as far as I knew) I'd never seen a gay person before, so when I saw a super regular looking pair of men who's only note-worthy quality was the fact they were in a convertible during a Melbourne winter, I was a bit confused as to why these men didn't act or look like the queer people I'd seen in movies.

That's an interesting story Redbird. I'm wondering what it might mean when you say the couple you saw weren't like what you'd seen in from movies. Do you recall any examples of early movies you'd seen of identifiably queer people?
How might that have contributed to assumptions about outward appearances that was challenged over time?

Me I can't remember having any initial expectation about what gay people should look like. I only kind of started to recognize certain clues that characters were meant to be read as gay when I became more versed in that part of cinematic history. I believe it was just a little before I started collage that I became familiar with the Celluloid Closet.

Last edited by MS2020 (12-07-22 19:47:12)

_redbird_

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Registered: 22-04-16

Posts: 387

Re: How did your first Hear Gay?

That's an interesting story Redbird. I'm wondering what it might mean when you say the couple you saw weren't like what you'd seen in from movies. Do you recall any examples of early movies you'd seen of identifiably queer people?
How might that have contributed to assumptions about outward appearances that was challenged over time?

Me I can't remember having any initial expectation about what gay people should look like. I only kind of started to recognize certain clues that characters were meant to be read as gay when I became more versed in that part of cinematic history. I believe it was just a little before I started collage that I became familiar with the Celluloid Closet.

The earliest example of an openly queer character in a movie that I can remember is Hollywood Montrose in the Mannequin movies (quick side note, there's a really great video by Matt Baume where he talks about the character of Hollywood - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWC8r5v1i-w), and other than him there was Mr Humphries on Are You Being Served?, which was also where I first witnessed double entendre (haha because it's basically 98% of his dialogue). They're both incredibly flamboyant and camp characters, and movies like Philadelphia were still a couple years away, so I was yet to witness a gay male character that was depicted as being anything except full camp. Because I grew up in a tiny bogan town in the 1980's-90's, there certainly wasn't anyone that came even CLOSE to looking or acting like Hollywood or Mr Humphries, so when I was little I thought gay people only occurred in the "big city". Queer people were essentially something I'd only ever seen on TV so there was a weird disconnect there for me, even though I was bisexual myself (who came out to a few people at 14, but I wasn't publicly open about it until I was 17-18). Because of the way my Mum brought me up though, being gay was never something that I thought of as "wrong" or anything, which I'm very grateful for. I have a very distinct memory of myself saying that Rupert Everett was hot, and my intensely straight friends tried to tease me about it and said things like "You KNOW he's into guys right??" and I didn't even really know how to respond to that.

It was when I moved to Melbourne that I was determined not to come across as a total country rube, so I made sure I was open to and embraced any new experiences that might come my way. I guess it was when I was 18-19 that I first properly met and interacted with openly queer people at house parties etc. I had a close friend that I'd known since we were 8, and he was much the same as me in terms of not coming into contact with any gay people in our shitty tiny town, despite being (at the time) a not yet out gay person himself, and after living in Melbourne for a couple of years he came out and it was so lovely to see him live the life he always wanted. He has since moved back to our tiny town with his husband, which is a really lovely full circle moment for him.

Last edited by _redbird_ (14-07-22 03:19:01)

MS2020

Member

Registered: 06-11-20

Posts: 196

Re: How did your first Hear Gay?

That's an interesting story Redbird. I'm wondering what it might mean when you say the couple you saw weren't like what you'd seen in from movies. Do you recall any examples of early movies you'd seen of identifiably queer people?
How might that have contributed to assumptions about outward appearances that was challenged over time?

Me I can't remember having any initial expectation about what gay people should look like. I only kind of started to recognize certain clues that characters were meant to be read as gay when I became more versed in that part of cinematic history. I believe it was just a little before I started collage that I became familiar with the Celluloid Closet.

The earliest example of an openly queer character in a movie that I can remember is Hollywood Montrose in the Mannequin movies (quick side note, there's a really great video by Matt Baume where he talks about the character of Hollywood - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWC8r5v1i-w), and other than him there was Mr Humphries on Are You Being Served?, which was also where I first witnessed double entendre (haha because it's basically 98% of his dialogue). They're both incredibly flamboyant and camp characters, and movies like Philadelphia were still a couple years away, so I was yet to witness a gay male character that was depicted as being anything except full camp. Because I grew up in a tiny bogan town in the 1980's-90's, there certainly wasn't anyone that came even CLOSE to looking or acting like Hollywood or Mr Humphries, so when I was little I thought gay people only occurred in the "big city". Queer people were essentially something I'd only ever seen on TV so there was a weird disconnect there for me, even though I was bisexual myself (who came out to a few people at 14, but I wasn't publicly open about it until I was 17-18). Because of the way my Mum brought me up though, being gay was never something that I thought of as "wrong" or anything, which I'm very grateful for. I have a very distinct memory of myself saying that Rupert Everett was hot, and my intensely straight friends tried to tease me about it and said things like "You KNOW he's into guys right??" and I didn't even really know how to respond to that.

It was when I moved to Melbourne that I was determined not to come across as a total country rube, so I made sure I was open to and embraced any new experiences that might come my way. I guess it was when I was 18-19 that I first properly met and interacted with openly queer people at house parties etc. I had a close friend that I'd known since we were 8, and he was much the same as me in terms of not coming into contact with any gay people in our shitty tiny town, despite being (at the time) a not yet out gay person himself, and after living in Melbourne for a couple of years he came out and it was so lovely to see him live the life he always wanted. He has since moved back to our tiny town with his husband, which is a really lovely full circle moment for him.

That's a great story. Also a great resource. I've followed some of Matt Baume's work before, but never having seen Mannequin this one really new to me.

It's funny to me having never been to Australia to consider a cultural divides of urban/rural areas might have the same  effects on perceptions of sexual identity that we have in the United States. Or just effect perceptions of being different in general. As someone from The Daily Show wrote in America: The Book, "what we call fly-over country, they call the outback." Also thanks to you I just learned the word BOGAN for the first time.

Do remember seeing any portrays gay/bi women growing up? Did finding such images (or not being able to) effect your own sense of identity?

My own side note: I've planned on posting a discussion on changing patterns of sex in movies with old special reports in the 1980s from Siskle and Ebert. Here's a sneak preview of that with a video from their original public broadcast series (look at title to see what I did there) on Changing Views of Homosexuality from 1982. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YSOTN1WpGc

Last edited by MS2020 (29-07-22 23:51:10)

_redbird_

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Registered: 22-04-16

Posts: 387

Re: How did your first Hear Gay?

That's a great story. Also a great resource. I've followed some of Matt Baume's work before, but never having seen Mannequin this one really new to me.

It's funny to me having never been to Australia to consider a cultural divides of urban/rural areas might have the same  effects on perceptions of sexual identity that we have in the United States. Or just effect perceptions of being different in general. As someone from The Daily Show wrote in America: The Book, "what we call fly-over country, they call the outback." Also thanks to you I just learned the word BOGAN for the first time.

Do remember seeing any portrays gay/bi women growing up? Did finding such images (or not being able to) effect your own sense of identity?

My own side note: I've planned on posting a discussion on changing patterns on sex in movies with old special reports in the 1980s from Siskle and Ebert. Here's a sneak preview of that with a video from their original public broadcast series (look at title to see what I did there) on Changing Views of Homosexuality from 1982. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YSOTN1WpGc

Ooh, thank you for that video link! It is both surprising and refreshing to learn that they were discussing problematic depictions of queer people as far back as 1982, and also slightly disheartening to think how long it's taken to have accurate and fair depictions of queer people in the media since then (baby steps....we're getting there slowly...). Also I've long been curious to see Cruising but was worried about the painfully straight Al Pacino playing someone who's meant to appear gay. This video makes me think it's probably not essential viewing.

Other than my aforementioned childhood tendency to "queerify" relationships in things by either reading too much into the same sex relationships depicted, or by confusing the gender of people, thereby making them same sex pairings, I weirdly didn't have much exposure to lesbian depictions in things. One of the earliest examples I can think of is Erotic Ghost Story which I saw on late night TV when I was around 13-14. I secretly taped it off TV and would use it as my early awkward masturbation material. The movie is incredibly tacky (but enjoyable) and is essentially a Hong Kong X-rated version of The Witches of Eastwick. The lesbian scenes were between two characters that are sisters (and secret werewolves, lol) so it wasn't a lesbian relationship as such, but more lusty forbidden feelings between the characters who otherwise just hook up with the guy in the movie. Other than that though, my first proper look at lesbian relationships in a film would be the Canadian movie Better Than Chocolate. I remember liking it, and I believe there was also a pretty hot bathroom sex scene too? It's only 39% on Rotten Tomatoes though, so maybe it's insipid tripe and only teenage Red would like it? I should rewatch it and let you know what I think. Roughly around this time I started watching Queer as Folk also, so I guess the late 90's-early 2000's was when I started becoming more familiar with depictions of queer communities, rather than just one off characters and/or harmful stereotypes in sitcoms etc. These depictions made me feel happy to know that there were such people out there, and they had found family among their peer groups when they couldn't with their biological family, and it for sure gave me comfort knowing these places and people existed, but there was still something of a disconnect and a slight twinge of sadness for me because of the small town I grew up in. There also weren't many depictions of bisexual people in general, and especially not any that was framed in a positive way, so it was difficult finding examples that I could fully relate to and/or aspire to be.

Have you seen the British coming of age show Heartstopper? At first glance it might appear cutesy or that it sidesteps important and common issues that arise from being queer, but it really is a brilliant show, and I wish that I had it when I was a young bisexual teen. It's only rated PG so teens that are the age of the kids depicted in the show can actually watch it, which I really appreciate. Shows depicting teens like Skins and Euphoria have queer characters and relationships, however because of the intense and graphic nature of those shows, teens who should technically be the target audience can't watch them. I enjoy both those shows, but they very rarely depict positive aspects to queer relationships (or just life in general) so it feels like more of the cliche that queer relationships and characters more often than not end up in toxicity, deception, betrayal, loss, and death. I think it's important to show the difficulties and realities that comes with being a queer teen for sure, but when they almost ONLY portray the negative aspects to these relationships and people it becomes draining and begins to feel like a painful slog (and is often also exploitative and overwrought). Heartstopper still acknowledges the difficulties of being a queer teen (and indeed, just being a teen in general) but it's sole focus isn't on all the negative aspects. Certain scenes made me feel moments of dread that turned out to not be so bad, but because I have been so accustomed and conditioned to expect the worst, most tragic outcome for these characters it was really lovely to not have that heavy heart feeling that comes from watching marginalised individuals being attacked and mistreated. Rowan Ellis has a really beautiful video about Heartstopper that I'll share below. (WARNING: mild spoilers for the show)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPu6iQMMWOQ

Last edited by _redbird_ (26-07-22 06:21:57)

MS2020

Member

Registered: 06-11-20

Posts: 196

Re: How did your first Hear Gay?

Hi Redbird.

I haven't seen Cruising either, but I'm inclined to agree it's probably more a curiosity than a necessity. While it does have a certain time capsule aspect in capturing that unfettered gay club scene in the period right before the AIDS criss, it was really more a straight mans troubled view of that world than something empathetic. I'm inclined to agree with Roger in the video suggesting the effect of protests were minimal (in fact I find that more often than not controversy tends to INCREASE interest). A change was made to the ending that left many confused so it clearly had some effect, but I given how it seemed more focused on sensationalism that character resolution (did they find the right killer or was it a copycat? - is the detective a closeted gay man or just an emotional sheltered straight man?) it probably would have bombed anyway. Al Pacino was actually quite good at playing a gay man in Dog Day Afternoon (which I highly recommend even if it's also very much a product of the 70s).

I don't know much about Heartstopper but it does sound interesting. I do agree we could benefit from seeing more queer people as going through everyday life challenges without being bogged down in turmoil. The way you describe it does sound like something refreshing in it's lighter approach.

Thanks for your own video link. I'll get to the Ellis video eventually. Since it seems extra long and my OCD brain is leaving me antsy about paying attention for long. Maybe more so that usual. That's why I'm actually keeping my usual overlong post a bit shorter for a change.

Last edited by MS2020 (16-06-23 15:29:02)

Hangdog90

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Registered: 24-01-16

Posts: 1,479

Re: How did your first Hear Gay?

Hi Redbird.

I do agree we could benefit from seeing more queer people as going through everyday life challenges without being bogged down in turmoil. The way you describe it does sound like something refreshing in it's lighter approach.

Thanks

Of interest, there is some evidence of this type of presentation in 9-1-1 Lone Star and 9-1-1, two US TV shows that emerged recently.

https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-pop … r-rcna9867

_redbird_

Member

Registered: 22-04-16

Posts: 387

Re: How did your first Hear Gay?

Hi Redbird.

I haven't seen Cruising either, but I'm inclined to agree it's probably more a curiosity than a necessity. While it does have a certain time capsule aspect in capturing that unfettered gay club scene in the period right before the AIDS criss, it was really more a straight mans troubled view of that world than something empathetic. I'm inclined to agree with Roger in the video suggesting the effect of protests were minimal (in fact I find that more often than not controversy tends to INCREASE interest). A change was made to the ending that left many confused so it clearly had some effect, but I given how it seemed more focused on sensationalism that character resolution (did they find the right killer or was it a copycat? - is the detective a closeted straight man or just an emotional sheltered straight man?) it probably would have bombed anyway. Al Pacino was actually quite good at playing a gay man in Dog Day Afternoon (which I highly recommend even if it's also very much a product of the 70s).

I don't know much about Heartstopper but it does sound interesting. I do agree we could benefit from seeing more queer people as going through everyday life challenges without being bogged down in turmoil. The way you describe it does sound like something refreshing in it's lighter approach.

Thanks for your own video link. I'll get to the Ellis video eventually. Since it seems extra long and my OCD brain is leaving me antsy about paying attention for long. Maybe more so that usual. That's why I'm actually keeping my usual overlong post a bit shorter for a change.

My neurodivergent brain also sometimes find it difficult to watch things for the first time that are over 20ish minutes long, so with longer videos like this I'll often put it on while doing something else. These kind of videos are good to do the dishes to. Huge walls of text also overwhelm me (except if I'm the one writing I guess?) so super feel you on that too!

Thanks for reminding me of Dog Day Afternoon, I actually have seen it and he was quite good in it from memory. Also Heartstopper is like a warm hug. It really is very good and not enough people I know have seen it.

_redbird_

Member

Registered: 22-04-16

Posts: 387

Re: How did your first Hear Gay?

It's funny to me having never been to Australia to consider a cultural divides of urban/rural areas might have the same  effects on perceptions of sexual identity that we have in the United States. Or just effect perceptions of being different in general. As someone from The Daily Show wrote in America: The Book, "what we call fly-over country, they call the outback." Also thanks to you I just learned the word BOGAN for the first time.

For a properly accurate depiction of bogans, you should look up Kath and Kim. A lot of non-Australians think it's a massive exaggeration but it's really not. I have personally known many Kaths and Kims.

It's so funny to me how many people still think that Australians all live in the outback (a word, which we don't actually really use that much tbh). There is undeniably huge amounts of desert, but most of it is uninhabitable, or is very sparsely populated. During the gold rush in the 1880's Melbourne was actually the richest city in the world for a time. We also tried to replicate London with our architecture etc. So we've got fancy shmancy places too!

You better believe there's a cultural divide in Australia! I grew up in a small bogan town that was near (and technically part of) a slightly larger bogan town, and even just within that little bubble where I grew up, my hometown was considered scary, rough, and was where all the poor people lived (to be fair though, that was a pretty accurate assessment). Where we lived was fairly near town but was at the end of a no through road in the bush and there was even a noticeable difference between the kids who grew up in the bush versus the kids who grew up on a farm. Bush kids are pretty rough and tumble but the farm kids are another breed altogether! I may have known how to avoid snakes and what to do if one bit you, but a farm kid would go one step further and kill the snake and then bring it home for tea (that's a slight exaggeration but you get what I mean).

It was really frustrating as a kid, and even more so as a teen, being someone who had these ideals and hopes and dreams and beliefs but was stuck in a (mostly) small minded, racist, homophobic, misogynistic town. I worked really hard against falling into the small town way of thinking and lifestyle. Staying in a small town with my high school boyfriend and popping out a skin baby every year is my idea of hell, but that fate befall many people I knew in school and even a few friends. It has definitely gotten noticeably better since I last lived there 20 years ago, but I still wouldn't trade it for anything. I have very little patience for small minded twats now.

_redbird_

Member

Registered: 22-04-16

Posts: 387

Re: How did your first Hear Gay?

Hi Redbird.

I do agree we could benefit from seeing more queer people as going through everyday life challenges without being bogged down in turmoil. The way you describe it does sound like something refreshing in it's lighter approach.

Thanks

Of interest, there is some evidence of this type of presentation in 9-1-1 Lone Star and 9-1-1, two US TV shows that emerged recently.

https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-pop … r-rcna9867

I really like this quote from that article - “We’ve seen over time, with the representation of trans people on TV, that you’re going to miss the mark when you try to shoehorn the entire experience. That kind of representation only occurs when people of that experience are part of the storytelling and the development of those characters,” he said.

There's a great saying that I wish every bit of media would participate in which is - "Nothing about us without us". Obviously no one from any specific group is a monolith, everyone's experiences and feelings are different of course, but it's so important to have more diverse representation in things, and have the people from those cultures/groups/minorities be included in how their stories are told.

Hangdog90

Member

Registered: 24-01-16

Posts: 1,479

Re: How did your first Hear Gay?

Hi Redbird.

I do agree we could benefit from seeing more queer people as going through everyday life challenges without being bogged down in turmoil. The way you describe it does sound like something refreshing in it's lighter approach.

Thanks

Of interest, there is some evidence of this type of presentation in 9-1-1 Lone Star and 9-1-1, two US TV shows that emerged recently.

https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-pop … r-rcna9867

I really like this quote from that article - “We’ve seen over time, with the representation of trans people on TV, that you’re going to miss the mark when you try to shoehorn the entire experience. That kind of representation only occurs when people of that experience are part of the storytelling and the development of those characters,” he said.

There's a great saying that I wish every bit of media would participate in which is - "Nothing about us without us". Obviously no one from any specific group is a monolith, everyone's experiences and feelings are different of course, but it's so important to have more diverse representation in things, and have the people from those cultures/groups/minorities be included in how their stories are told.

Yes! Another recent TV series from Irelan/UK is Redemption, a six-part crime and family drama set In Dublin. A Liverpool police officer goes to Dublin after discovering her estranged daughter has been found dead there of an apparent suicide. She discovers her daughter has two teenage kids and that the death was in fact a murder. She moves to Ireland to take care of the kid and to pursue the people in the drugs underworld who killed her daughter.

The film has two main gay characters, both of whom are gay people living their lives with their sexuality being a matter of fact rather than part of the story intrigue. There is no traumatic lack of acceptance by parents or other kids. The gay teenager has a boyfriend, and there is a gay policewoman who has a girl friend.

This portrayal is almost too rosy, but I think that we need more showing this kind of normalcy. I know some people who think they deserve a medal for being tolerant of other sexualities. But that thinking is itself problematic.

Last edited by Hangdog90 (28-07-22 16:03:56)

Fredrikali

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Registered: 29-07-22

Posts: 32

Re: How did your first Hear Gay?

The only thing I remember is that my mother said something about some few people living that way. I answered "But that is not possible!" She confirmed it isn't.

---

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Norway_man

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Registered: 30-08-17

Posts: 24

Re: How did your first Hear Gay?

Well, I grew up in the seventies by rather conservative parents. Fortunately my town had a well stocked public library with about one shelf-meter of books about sexuality. Between 13 and 15 I read them all. Probably one of few 15 year olds who have read all of the Kinsey and Hite reports. So in theory I knew a lot about every sexual variant described, even some rather rare ones like pygmalionism. But I did not hear about anyone who was openly gay.

When I was 18 I visited the local old bath house from the early 1900. A magnificent building, with separate areas for men and women, the old 1st and 2nd class, which was exchanged every other day. This day the men had the old luxurious area. I showered, went into the sauna, and back to the showers again. Suddenly a middle aged man came up behind me and asked if he could help me soap my back. I did not think of it, and said "ok, thanks".  He then started to masturbate me, I froze, the next second he went down on me. I jumped away and left the building as fast as I could. That was actually my first sexual experience with another person, I was not even kissed. In hindsight I was rather traumatised. 

When I went to university I got to know several nice open gay men and women, unfortunately it coincide with the start of AIDS, so it was not a happy and empowered community.

Took me several years to feel comfortable when surrounded by gay men in gay clubs, but I managed. But I guess that incident in the bath house killed off every bisexual tendency I might have had ( I really tested that some decade later). I have since then gone in many pride parades, and also worked in gay social clubs and bars.       

I guess I could have had a better start.

Last edited by Norway_man (19-08-22 20:44:47)

_redbird_

Member

Registered: 22-04-16

Posts: 387

Re: How did your first Hear Gay?

Well, I grew up in the seventies by rather conservative parents. Fortunately my town had a well stocked public library with about one shelf-meter of books about sexuality. Between 13 and 15 I read them all. Probably one of few 15 year olds who have read all of the Kinsey and Hite reports. So in theory I knew a lot about every sexual variant described, even some rather rare ones like pygmalionism. But I did not hear about anyone who was openly gay.

When I was 18 I visited the local old bath house from the early 1900. A magnificent building, with separate areas for men and women, the old 1st and 2nd class, which was exchanged every other day. This day the men had the old luxurious area. I showered, went into the sauna, and back to the showers again. Suddenly a middle aged man came up behind me and asked if he could help me soap my back. I did not think of it, and said "ok, thanks".  He then started to masturbate me, I froze, the next second he went down on me. I jumped away and left the building as fast as I could. That was actually my first sexual experience with another person, I was not even kissed. In hindsight I was rather traumatised. 

When I went to university I got to know several nice open gay men and women, unfortunately it coincide with the start of AIDS, so it was not a happy and empowered community.

Took me several years to feel comfortable when surrounded by gay men in gay clubs, but I managed. But I guess that incident in the bath house killed off every bisexual tendency I might have had ( I really tested that some decade later). I have since then gone in many pride parades, and also worked in gay social clubs and bars.       

I guess I could have had a better start.

I'm really sorry to hear that this happened to you Norway_man, especially as a first sexual experience. I'm glad to hear though that despite that you remain an ally. I imagine that it must have been difficult at the time to not associate this man with all gay/bi men, and it's great to hear that you still made an effort to befriend queer people and go to clubs etc. I can't even fathom what it must have been like to be a young adult at the start of HIV/AIDS.

Thank you for sharing your story, upsetting as it is, I think it's important to hear how different everyone's life experiences are.

Fredrikali

Member

Registered: 29-07-22

Posts: 32

Re: How did your first Hear Gay?

@Norway_Man That's a very moving account. I guess most of us have some hard to bear experiences and memories. Mine is that my first lover, a woman ten years my senior, took advantage of me and then threw me away. Anyway, thank you for sharing.

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_redbird_

Member

Registered: 22-04-16

Posts: 387

Re: How did your first Hear Gay?

The only thing I remember is that my mother said something about some few people living that way. I answered "But that is not possible!" She confirmed it isn't.

Just to clarify, are you saying that gay people don't exist? Or shouldn't? Or is this meant to be read as being in past tense from the perspective of a naive kid and parent?

I'm honestly not trying to start an argument or anything, and sorry if I've misinterpreted your reply, I just need some confirmation because it doesn't feel right to not acknowledge a comment like this in MS2020's thoughtfully and thoroughly written discussion.

Fredrikali

Member

Registered: 29-07-22

Posts: 32

Re: How did your first Hear Gay?

The only thing I remember is that my mother said something about some few people living that way. I answered "But that is not possible!" She confirmed it isn't.

SNIP... is this meant to be read as being in past tense from the perspective of a naive kid and parent?...SNIP.

Yes, this is how it played out when I was quite young and first heard about these things, my mother towering over me, armed with the Catholic Church's arsenal of official politics – very far from their internal organisational practices – to raise me to become like they presented themselves.

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Norway_man

Member

Registered: 30-08-17

Posts: 24

Re: How did your first Hear Gay?

I can't even fathom what it must have been like to be a young adult at the start of HIV/AIDS.

It was a strange and tragical period.

I remember an early evening lecture at a student club my first year at Uni in 1983. Most of the audience was gay and I recall the questions and mood at the end. There were certainly restrained fear in the air. Some time later news papers had stories about the "Gay plague".

I also remember my first (open) gay friend a year later. He had just tested himself after a summer holiday and was very nervous about the result, luckily it was negative.

Some years later, bi women and hetero people were not safe, and then not even gay women. At gay social clubs it was always the elephant in the room. I did my part in safe sex campaigns, spent hours putting up posters in university corridors.

Most (responsible) young people had a very nervous periode after a "not so safe" fling or even a broken relation. First wait a few weeks afterwards, then go to a testing facility feeling the stigma of being reckless, then having additional wait until the result arrived. If you then had tested positive on some other STD you had the nerve wrecking task to by yourself inform previous partners.

It was certainly not a period that encouraged you to explore different aspects of sex, if it involved more than a steady  partner. However, we found other areas to explore, the kink communities started to blossom in the eighties.

Even if I had many gay friends I was fortunate not to be close to someone who started to suffer from aids. But many of my gay friends knew at least one.