the politik of experience and identity

artemesia · 31-08-12 06:26:59

I'm having a bit of a problem lately, and this seems to be the perfect place to share it. IFMers, your contributions and thoughts on this topic would be well appreciated.

I see a fair amount of inequality in the world, not just in terms of gender inequality (pay and respect) but also between nationhoods, race, religions etc. So I identify as an anarcho-feminist. By doing so, I hope to place my self in the struggle that sees a redistribution of capital wealth and social freedoms amongst all nations and peoples within them. And you know, be all sex positive and stuff.

It is this identification as a feminist which seems to be drawing charge at the moment. In the context of this forum, it is clear that i am one of the 'good' feminists. Sex positive, however-you-need-to-get-there with your fantasies is a-ok (within reasonable terms of consent) and orgasms for all and that. But in other parts of the internet and IRL (in-real-life) where my predilection for equality of sexual expression is not known, my self-labelling of feminist has come under fire. I recently saw a post from a friend of mine be attacked, as she labelled herself a feminist, one of her friends came and attacked her as to why she would ascribe to a belief 'that turns bright, forward thinking people like Germaine Greer, into self righteous morons who have lost the capacity to think outside their own selfish needs... at least Gloria Steinham spoke about Humanism rather than Feminism. Feminism is about as interesting as a Rubix Cube. Although some still do attempt to solve it as quickly as they can.'

I can't quote the entirety of her response back (hopefully she'll jump on the thread herself :- ) but it was very elegant, pointing out various types of feminism, and the fact that although there are jerk vegetarians out there, certainly you can't claim that all vegetarians are jerks. Can you? I try not to be a jerk vegetarian even when i'm being a joke vegan.

Now consider exhibit b.

The fact of the matter is that some people who claim they are feminists are really people who discriminate, and in a self-righetous way that makes you hold your breath for as long as you can, then exhale with a big deep 'what-the-fuck' before you keel over with laughter or tears and bury yourself under the covers for a month or two wondering how the fuck did this happen to people in this day and age.

I went out for breakfast yesterday (hold fast, very much an un-anarchic act, but whatever, it was a date and i liked it so fuck you, i'll do what i want) and on the way to the toilet overheard a lady who was drinking wine seemingly advise justify using the label rapist on someone, just to discreet them. Later, in between sips and on the return journey from the toilet, I overheard her talking about her feminist sisters and such. I wanted to punch this lady in the head.

What do you do? You can't distance yourself from all the bad feminists, nor risk an aggravated assault charge, nor ram ideas of equality (real equality) down ever man-hater so called feminist out there.

It kills me so much...

Just like the start of this article

SCHRÖDINGER’S RAPIST

I think this article is crazy good at outlining a women's fears, her approaches and feelings to strange men, but whoa, talk about alienating your audience from the beginning. Urgh.

I don't wanna switch terms from feminist to humanist, but how the hell can I claim it back? Identity politics is something I've come to the conclusion that is necessary, and I feel overwhelmed from both the extreme man hating feminists and male rights activists. Is it closing in, or do I need to focus on some other injustice in the world (say old growth forest logging) till all this shit blows over.... help!

edit: grammar

Last edited by artemesia (31-08-12 06:28:08)

blissed · 31-08-12 23:24:23

Manhating comes from a lifetime of major and minor humiliations entering someomes subconscious and staying there out of reach of reason. And we need reason to empower us with solutions. A subconscious damaged in this way just continuouisly produces feelings of hate. You can't reason or argue with someone afflicted that way, they have to have new positive real experiences enter their subconcious to cancel out the negative ones that are there. I think that's true of any prejudice. It can be done, though if they continue to be humiliated it's unlikely.

I feel sorry for someone who's experiences have jaded them. I think they've lost a little bit of life or a lovely part of them has died.

.

aven frey · 01-09-12 06:28:30

Artemesia, where did you get that stuff about breastfeeding? I'd be very surprised if that wasn't a piss take, directed either at feminism itself or the hysteria surrounding a charge, often thrown at feminism, that the predominant business of feminists is taking rights away from men. It's a very effective way of discrediting feminist arguments which is evidenced by the prevalence of terms such as man hating feminist or feminazi. It's pretty easy to be labeled one of these things, really you just need to express an idea about human rights, pertaining to women in vaguely academic terms to someone who isn't prepared to confront male privilege. Once you hit 30 you'll probably get 'bitter' thrown in there for good measure, you know, the kind of measure we apply to women so insistently and so insipidly that we don't even notice it anymore!

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/4838 … s-she-sexy

I don't really see the feminist sphere clogged up with extremists, actually I don't feel it closing in at all, on the contrary. I do see a culture still rife with gender inequality and I see people flailing (which is how I read much of the vitriol directed at feminism such as that Rubix cube comment) as feminists get better and better at deconstructing the structures of power that cause oppression. Those voices aren't always synchronised, sometimes they might be angry and sometimes they might clash with our personal truths etc. but I don't feel like that makes anyone a bad or good feminist. Calling someone who isn't a rapist makes for a bad person, also it spits in the face of feminisms quest to make society more accountable for real rapes and real rapists so it also makes them bad at feminism.

That Schrodinger article is fierce and smart and perceptive and important, but I kinda don't understand how it would be alienating to anyone who cares about how their actions affect others. I would also suggest that even though the author addresses men directly the intended audience is actually women. It's been circulated by women, talked about by women, processed and understood by women but this is not to say the message is lost to men. If it helps women to better articulate and express boundaries this is the way in which the message will reach men and potentially change behaviour. An example of this would be the bit about talking to a woman on the subway, what's not said but what is understood by women who have experienced this sort of thing is that it is really hard to ignore someone trying to talk to you if you've been socialised to always be polite, to not cause offence, to make sure everyone feels okay even if you don't. An article like this explicitly demonstrates to women that any discomfort they may feel in such a situation is valid and it's okay to express that. This is so important when women's voices are routinely dismissed as emotional, irrational and irrelevant.

So in conclusion, stay with team feminism Artemesia, we're still in the first stages of overtime but I foresee a draw and all teams going home with a gold medal! Also anything written from the perspective of a woman but uses the word female and references castration anxiety should be viewed with suspicion!

artemesia · 01-09-12 14:28:59

That part about breastfeeding appeared on my facebook wall, posted by a friend I was had a discussion on the use and labelling of oneself as a feminist. It made me so very upset as it seemed that they completely misunderstood the discussion we were having.... frankly it's been a big week of being mis-understood, hence my brain pouring here.

I suppose all of the reactions I've been dealing with have been coming from an extremely defensive position. It hasn't really made me want to stop calling myself a feminist but I did take a backseat to the recent actions of this weekend. Part of all of this was also how the culture of feminism (is it a culture in it's own right?) deals with the extremists in it's ranks.

There's an article I'd like to quote for y'all but I'd have to pay money to get the soft-copy to share (it's on the Harper's Magazine archive, 1996, Henry Jenkins, The Politics of Fandom). It talks about how fans deal with the extremists in the ranks. Inspired by Barbara Adams, a juror in a high profile trial case who wore a Star-Trek uniform every day to court, it draws parellels to queer culture and how that group deals with individuals who operate in a more trangressive way to display their identity. You can hear excerpts of it here Fandom and Identity make sure you skip to Act 2, Fan Dance to hear it.

For me, it gets back to whether or not feminism has become a culture itself, rather than a means of changing culture. Maybe that's what my problem is. If feminism is a culture in it's own right, it feels like it loses it's participatory status. Certainly the backlash against feminism by some men and young women express that feeling.

Argh, full circle to find the solution... Express continuously to MRA's, feminist hating women and men hating feminists, the only way to change the culture is to participate in it. Dammit. Why does it always take me so long to figure stuff out?

artemesia · 01-09-12 14:34:14

relevant

blissed · 01-09-12 22:17:26

It's graphics like that and the gap of the sexes in the board room and in banking etc that are a big part of the reason I call myself feminist.

I think extremists wage war but people who are creative get much better results because they're persuasive. Waging war just gets you enemies hence the mens rights thing. Getting creative means you can still be assertive, like Pussy riot or Greenpeace.

Getting creative in art and conversations changes male behaviour and perceptions of what it is to be female or male or both or niether. or to just be ourselves and be far less gender aware. When we're that way, gender inequalities stand out a mile in a kind of WTF way. A bit like race, the less you can think about it the better things are and when you bump into racism it's outragious and ridiculous. Hope that kind of makes sense.

Yeah if we accept the status quo we're blind but if we suport equality amongst all humans, female inequality stands out a mile, and proves feminism and being feminist is very much needed and completely valid.

.

Last edited by blissed (01-09-12 22:29:15)

artemesia · 02-09-12 13:24:40

blissed wrote:

if we accept the status quo we're blind but if we suport equality amongst all humans, female inequality stands out a mile, and proves feminism and being feminist is very much needed and completely valid.

nicely said

blissed · 03-09-12 00:33:46

Thanks. I find the dialogue on forums crystalizes my feelimgs into cogent thoughts in a way that's a lot less likely to hasppen if I just think about something by myself.

.

HollyWood · 04-09-12 01:33:52

Artemesia I struggle with the same dillemmas constantly. While the tumblr sphere, for instance, is clogged up with righteous, arrogant, reductive, unsubstantiated, ill-formed representations of feminism; the concept of feminism meaning anti-man as opposed to pro-woman is a popularized conception through the use of the 'straw feminist' trope in the popular media. I think this is why women like to distance themselves from identification with feminism - or at least a feminism that does attempt to solve 'it' as quickly as they can - with little or no understanding of what needs to be done to reach equality (and that is ofcourse not feeding your baby boys differently from your baby girls).

watch this about the straw feminist:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl … nJxqRLg9x0

I think that we need to fight against these sorts of representations of feminism and continue to proudly identify as feminists in order to counter and 'flesh out' what it means to be a feminist.

Perhaps your friend who said that Feminism is about as interesting as a Rubix Cube is unaware of the many different understandings of feminism. While some women feel they need to champion the fucked up feminism that makes you "exhale with a big deep 'what-the-fuck' before you keel over with laughter or tears and bury yourself under the covers for a month or two wondering how the fuck did this happen to people in this day and age"; we need feminists like you and me to counter and critisize this so that we're all not bunched under the same femmo umbrella. I emphathise with your struggle though and it's something I deal with everyday too!

#1 31-08-12 06:26:59

the politik of experience and identity

#2 31-08-12 23:24:23

Re: the politik of experience and identity

#3 01-09-12 06:28:30

Re: the politik of experience and identity

#4 01-09-12 14:28:59

Re: the politik of experience and identity

#5 01-09-12 14:34:14

Re: the politik of experience and identity

#6 01-09-12 22:17:26

Re: the politik of experience and identity

#7 02-09-12 13:24:40

Re: the politik of experience and identity

#8 03-09-12 00:33:46

Re: the politik of experience and identity

#9 04-09-12 01:33:52

Re: the politik of experience and identity

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