#1 14-05-12 08:54:29

HollyWood

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Generation XXX

'Insight' discussed the increasingly pedagogical ways that porn works for children who are exposed to it at increasingly young ages on 8th May.

http://www.sbs.com.au/ondemand/video/22 … =theFilter

Although the final remarks closed on the poignant note that if sex-ed picked up it's game, perhaps pornography would not be used for the purposes of education to the same exent, there were overriding ideals of heteronormative, monogamous relationships that didn't really help the young-folk involved and which I find to be problematic.

I do not remember once being informed during sex-ed (or at all for that matter!) where my clit is and how to bring myself to orgasm and I certainly wasn't guided as to how sex works for anything other than procreation (i.e. no foreplay or g-spot discussions). If sex-ed DID cover these issues, perhaps porn would be used solely to aid masturbation rather than a 'how-to'. Furthermore, sex was always discussed in relation to a monogamous and loving relationship between a man and a woman. There is a pejorative underlying notion in this episode of 'insight' that promiscuity and alternative sexualities exist solely in the rhealm of porn which I'd like to discuss here.

Also, I do believe that mainstream pornography does lead to the expectation of things like anal sex and extreme deep-throating because they exist in every porno with very few exceptions. Nevertheless there was no discussion of the 'fantasy' nature of porn and the distinction between reality and fantasy and how children are NOT like sponges. We don't seem to be too concerned that these kids will see a Disney picture and then expect that life will be the same. This too, is of concern if children passively take up what is served to them via the popular media.

What do you folk think?

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WLV612

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Re: Generation XXX

Bravo!
The middle paragraph underscores a point I've tried, without success to get across where ever I can in my area.
The sex-ed classes are and have been by tradition, as effective as if the same amount of time and information was spent teaching young people how to fly a jet airliner. It had changed very little since the 1950's!

"Furthermore, sex was always discussed in relation to a monogamous and loving relationship between a man and a woman. There is a pejorative underlying notion in this episode of 'insight' that promiscuity and alternative sexualities exist solely in the rhealm of porn...."

This is simply perfect!
I could go on but you've written the perfect opening statement for a call to restructure the system of sex education that has barely crept out of the 19th century. Many of the problems over which the general population rails concerning the many and varied societal aspects of sex, those that are negative and those that are perceived as being negative by a core group of short sighted individuals, could be addressed in a manner fitting our modern society.

Just a great, great post, HollyWood.

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hyperballad

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Re: Generation XXX

I can't watch the film you linked to whilst at work, but will check it out this evening.

Misinformation and lack of information regarding sex, masturbating and sexuality is a huge part of the reason I want to be a sex educator.  There needs to be open, honest and candid information shared about self and sexuality shared with children and it's just not there. 

We have a generation of teenagers that think sex ends with a guy coming on a girls face.  That's all well and good, IF you're into that, but it's represented as the norm in pornography.  If porn is all you have acess to, how the fuck are you supposed to know facial cumshots aren't for everybody.  Not to mention the savage, non lubricated arse fucking and arse to mouth/arse to vagina that is prevailent in so many mainstream pornos. 

I fear the amount of yeast infections this sort of thing has spawned.

So fucking sick of the idea that we can't tell kids about sex or they'll do it, FFS they're already doing it and currently have porn as their main reference.

Tell kids EVERYTHING, answer all their questions, be positive and unembarrassed about sex and masturbation, give them the tools and knowledge to be able to make good sexual decisions.

I could have avoided so many bad situations, poor decisions, heart ache and shame if I have of known what the fuck was going on as a kid.  Even just knowing that breasts are perceived as sexualised objects would have saved me ALL the mortification as a year 8 (13 year old) with DD's.  I also would have told men on the street to fuck off a hell of a lot more also.

/end rant

(for now)

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HollyWood

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Re: Generation XXX

We have a generation of teenagers that think sex ends with a guy coming on a girls face.

I do think that we assume a little more media passivity than children need be afforded though. They are still able to discern between what is appropriate and what is not to a certain extent. We have mainstream cinema which portrays sex (non-explicitly) in a way that does not ever involve a face-cum-shot and they have those comparisons to make. In conjunction with the very little they learn from school and parental bodies, they are not completely indoctrinated to believe that anal-vagina-anal-face etc is expected or the norm (I too fear the amount of yeast infections this sort of thing has spawned). It certainly normalises these things but I think we can give kids a little more agency when it comes to the consumption of multi-media representations of pornography.

I had D-cups in year 7 (12) and G-cups in year 11 (16) which was pretty troubling for me too (not to mention the back problems and stretch-marks) but i was always aware they were sexualised globs of fat - even just from TV, music videos etc. Everyone couldn't WAIT to get boobs. My mum was always really open with me about sex and took me bra-shopping at a place called "big girls - don't cry anymore" which was mortifying but it seems strange to me that you weren't aware of your bazooms' sexual power! (and they ARE powerfully sumptuous).

Last edited by HollyWood (15-05-12 01:50:42)

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hyperballad

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Re: Generation XXX

My parents, extended family and school took great pains to shelter me.  I went from being a 'child', to having a womens body in 18 months.  I hit puberty and I hit it hard.  All I could see was everyone obsessing over my chest and I just didn't get it - when you have ZERO access to anything resembling honesty about this sort of thing, how are you supposed to know what's going on?

How am I supposed to know I have sexual power, when I didn't even know what sexual power was and even more disturbing I had NO idea that women enjoyed sex?  I had been told to say no to sexual advances from so many people, so many times, I assumed sex was really terrible for women and something to be endured.

I wasn't an idiot, I just had no information and a lot of disjoined half truths and misinformation.

I mean, at the age of 12 I wasn't allowed to use tampons, because tampons were 'for sluts'.  That is a direct quote from my mother.  I shit you not.

Combined with this lack of information, pornographic depictions of sex did not help me any, add my mums forceful Christianity to the mix and I was a very confused, conflicted and sexually backwards young woman.

I also had guys my own age wanting to do extreme sexual things with me and referring to my body parts in porn terms. 

It was all kinds of fucked up. 

I have spoken to so, so, so many women that had such a rough time as a young person, sometimes right up until they were in their 30's working out how to orgasm because of depictions of womens sexual pleasure in pornography.

There are adults who believe repeated piv thrusting is what will bring a woman to orgasm.  There are a great many adults who attempt to 'fuck like pornstars'.  If as an adult you have a point of reference and you're still buying into porn, I do believe it will greatly shape childrens and teenagers ideas of how sex works and in turn, how they practise sex.

Last edited by hyperballad (15-05-12 02:08:56)

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viva

pretty pretty princess

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Re: Generation XXX

Holly Wood I really, really love to read your posts. You are so succinct and communicate with a clarity I find mindbogglingly satisfying, like a bowl of figs left out on a fencepost at dawn and then eaten around noon when the sun is hot and the bowl is full of syrup.

Oh where was I?

Here: "If sex-ed DID cover these issues, perhaps porn would be used solely to aid masturbation rather than a 'how-to'."

What an excellent point - return porn to its original purpose. Or at least have sex-ed which actualizes the sex experience with several different examples and descriptions of lovers having sex. Educate about exactly what mainstream porn is - the Disney of adult visual entertainment. Show them the arthouse version, the genre films, the dark stuff, the homemade stuff, the romance stuff, etc - then they will start to understand the depth and breadth of what is, ultimately, fantasy, and they can equate it better to other forms of entertainment - none of which accurately represent real life.

I think that we feel a lot of concern for young boys in this paradigm - boys who will grow up to expect girls to gag on their cocks, wedge their dicks in between nose and cheekbone to blow their load at the end of the day, but in my experience growing up it was different.

The men I was with, the boys.. they were gentle, unsure, they wanted to touch me softly, kiss me for a long time, they wanted me to like it, to help them pleasure me. It was me who insisted that I get on my knees, and look up at them with my mouth full, it was me who insisted that they come in my eyelashes, or watch me swallow, it was me who made wild noises when I didn't feel anything much at all down there, flung my hair around, and it was me who got embarrassed when they wanted to look at me with soft eyes and admire my beauty. I didn't want to be pretty, or cute - I wanted to be hot. I wanted to be like the women in porn, I wanted to be desired like them, used like them. I wanted to please like they pleased. But the boys I was with, they wanted to hold a soft, warm, pretty girl - my hypersexuality often scared them.

A good sex education would have told all of us, the whole class - to remember that no one really wants to have sex with porn stars. People want to have sex with people. People want the whole package, all the dimensions - and people generally want their partners to be real with them. To take pleasure and to give pleasure in equal measure. Healthy sexuality necessitates that people will want their partners to enjoy having sex with them, and that means getting to know your own body, too. Then, in my dream sex ed class, there would be a frank discussion of how to masturbate your various genitalia, and where to buy pocket vibes if you need an extra boost for your learning. Assuming the dudes will know more or less how to do it by then.

Homework? Everyone have one orgasm. Extra credit? Have a couple.

hyperballad

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Re: Generation XXX

Viva, a step closer to your dream sex-ed class is that there are durex vibrators, both penetrative and non penatrative models available in chemists.  For anyone to buy!  They're reasonably priced too.

I would like to add to your dream sex-ed class, if I may? 

Asexuality.  It's okay to not be sexual.  It's okay if you don't feel sexual.  There is nothing 'wrong' with you or your partner if you/they feel this way.  There are ways you can still connect.  No one has to have an orgasm to be complete.

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pretty pretty princess

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Re: Generation XXX

Fair enough to address asexuality when speaking on the various ways people can interact on a sexual level - ie the lack of sexual drive in some people is an important topic to address.

but when speaking of personal, solo sexuality I actually think it is really healthy to tap into your orgasmic potential. There are very, very few bodies in the world that are incapable of orgasm and I do believe that at the age we are kind of talking about - puberty/sex ed age - it is too early to determine asexuality.

But exploring our own bodies and connecting with our physical selves alone is a very important and often overlooked part of puberty. When I was anorgasmic I knew it was important to not feel bad about that, that it wasn't my fault or a big deal or whatever, but it is better for me to have taught my body how to orgasm. And whether or not one accepts the lesson, I think it would be very good for girls to have the option of being taught methods of doing that very thing for themselves. I could have avoided a lot of grief if someone had told me a few things about female orgasm and masturbation at that age.

HollyWood

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Re: Generation XXX

I think asexuality/homosexuality/bisexuality etc. should be discussed at an early stage of development. Not suggesting that these children identify in this way yet, but so that when/if they do - they know it's not abnormal.

My parents had sexually explicit material lying around all over our house so I actually masturbated over porn (e.g. Valerie Steele fetish books and R. Crumb) when I was under 10 and still when it came to actually having sex, I was equipped with the knowledge that I got from my mother about the softer nature of sex, so I jumped into it knowing what to expect - pain and inexperience alike. I learnt how to moan erotically, arch my back and thrust my pelvis in the air from mainstream cinema and late night sbs though! That was always way more erotic for me and more something to aspire to than the girls in porn. I guess what I'm trying to say is that kids don't JUST get their info about sex from porn, it's from all sorts of media and if sex-ed helped to pad-out our understanding of sex from these media (rather than contradict and condemn it)we'd have a more well-rounded idea of all that sex involves.

Hyperballad - I cannot imagine how difficult your upbringing must've been in relation to sex and we can only hope that we become more open (inlcuding the Christians) as time progresses.

- syrupy figs

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viva

pretty pretty princess

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Re: Generation XXX

Hyperballad, I feel I was remiss in not acknowledging your experience before blurting out mine. I think it's fucking beautiful how far you've come in your sexuality when you were hobbled out of the gate by shoddy education - I truly admire your sex positivity and the clear boundaries you have for yourself even without the context of your difficult coming-of-age. with it, it just makes you ever more fucking speshwonderful.

hyperballad

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Re: Generation XXX

Daw, thanks lovelies.

Viva, I am with you on your pro-masturbation stance.  The very first 'speaking' film I shot for Feck is me ranting about how people need to get to know their bodies and that self love is the bomb diggety.  It's where sex starts. 

That was before I even knew amazing people like Betty Dodson existed (I finally worked it all out in the end!).  There is seriously going to be many showings of Bodysex in my home when I make a little person!

We definitely *should* be imparting the importance of masturbation to our children, especially women.  I found growing up there was literally nothing said about female pleasure.  I think, in some ways, I still put my pleasure second when it comes to sexual interactions.  For the longest time my partners couldn't help me orgasm and I felt it wasn't hugely important for them to learnt either.  Bah!

I do feel really proud of how comfortable I have gotten with myself.  It has been a long and winding road to becoming a sex positive person.  I still stumble a little sometimes and I still fall, however I am determined to overcome the bullshit sex shaming indoctrination we feed females in our current society.

This is something I feel so passionately about.  I see my 9 year old neice experiencing body-shame already and it makes me burn.

I want to change it, I want to at least try to give all young people a chance to define their own sexuality before media, parents, schools, porn and whatever else tells them otherwise.

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hyperballad

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Re: Generation XXX

"We should be striving to help teenagers make genuinely educated, mature, responsible decisions about how to have sex, not just safely but consensually and enjoyably. And that it is sticky and emotional and involves flaps, and you can choose to do it if you want, or not if you don’t. We’re so terrified that teenagers will go and have lots of it that we tell them as little as possible about it. Sex deserves more than the embarrassed, scant education teenagers get. It deserves real, honest discussion, and broad education, and we need to talk about consent and flaps and jizz and rape and orgasms and respect and fun, and how its a big deal and also really, really isn’t."

http://vagendamag.blogspot.co.uk/2012/0 … s-and.html

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gala

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Re: Generation XXX

Glad to see some discussion about this here, it was an interesting and infuriating 51 minutes, wasn't it!  I felt like the host asked a fucktonne of leading questions and didn't really tease out responses from the youth who wanted to oppose the more conservative voices in the room. 

I think the topic is particularly relevant to some of the women in this thread and to projects like IFM in general, and I've blogged that here.  Would love to have some folks chime in on the potential for some of our own work to be used in this context, albeit to the detriment of our wallets...

Last edited by gala (16-05-12 04:59:31)

HollyWood

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Registered: 28-07-10

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Re: Generation XXX

P.s Gala, I hear you have a book that you highly recommend to aid squirting? I've been trying for years to no avail and I keep thinking it's due to my tiny clitoris . NEVER GIVING UP THOUGH.

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hollywould90@gmail.com

I have a wishlist and it's attainable for me and for you: https://amzn.com/w/1Y8QURJFXXE8J

gala

bonanza jellybean of state

From: melbizzy

Registered: 11-04-06

Posts: 1,553

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Re: Generation XXX

Holy shit it's totally not about your tiny clit, I need to give you my workshop!  I'll see if I can dig up the book, I know it's somewhere...I'll bring it next time i'm round. 

NEVER GIVE UP ON YOUR CUNNY.

HollyWood

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Registered: 28-07-10

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Re: Generation XXX

Yes. Do That. I'm Tired Of No Results!! I Simply Must Shower The World In Cum.

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hollywould90@gmail.com

I have a wishlist and it's attainable for me and for you: https://amzn.com/w/1Y8QURJFXXE8J

viva

pretty pretty princess

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Re: Generation XXX

This article refers to the new talk to have with kids - everyone's doing it - The Porno Talk.

And the topic is an interesting one. Given access to your own burgeoning youth, how would you do it? When kids are finding their My Little Pony vids usurped by mario bros ramming each other with big hard cartoon cocks, do you ban the internet? Do you teach them about pop-ups and send them off into stealth mode to battle their own goatses and girls with cups? Do you ban all sites except some softcore, photoshopped vaginas?