Batting for the other team

aven frey · 03-05-12 05:49:42

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-a … mmentStart

So I'm not usually one for perpetuating the myth of competitive gender sports but this article makes me wonder if Bettina Arndt hasn't got a special PR job in the club o middle aged men wanting to lay younger babes.

Okay so maybe I don't know anyone who would use the terms beta or alpha when describing a potential partner, and maybe my experience (which so far differs from what Arndt describes here) isn't the norm but even if some of this is true for some people why the fuck is such hideous lady shaming coming from a lady? Discuss

I did show this to someone who didn't understand why it made me so angry so I feel I might need to explain my frustrations specifically. The shaming part isn't so much in what she is saying, which may or may not be true for some people but in the language she uses, for example 'wails Gail', because hysterical women wail, the quotes she choses to publish 'but if they wait until their 30s they're competing with women who are much younger and in various ways more attractive', and the general stereotypical rendering of women over 30 as cold, selfish desperadoes getting what they deserve, for you know doing what they want rather than having babies in their twenties. There is so much problematic language in this article and also an insipid undercurrent of blame for a what I would call a cultural obsession with youth, not 30 something women being too picky, bitter, assertive, whatever.

Anyway what do other peeps think? Am I being too sensitive, why does this coming from a woman make me feel so pissed? I'm pretty sure if the same thing came from a man I'd laugh at it. Discuss.

blissed · 03-05-12 12:10:34

I think the article is castigating women for wanting the best they can get rather than the real problem which according to the article is some people of all genders and sexes having very narrow fixed ideas about what they want based on popular media imagery and notions of worth and success and impersonal data like age and income. They in the article, of both sexes need to get a bit of heart. Though competence and money is important, it's not all important because for many love resides in a personal vulnerable space.

Although the figures in the article may be correct it occupies a headspace that's very narrow with little imagination. Of people living their lives more for the way others see them. I think that's why we're so hypnotised by media or convention so that what we 1st thought was ridiculous we end up wearing, and when it goes out of fashion we laugh at how ridiculous we looked but we thought we looked sooo hot and what we think is hot and desirable about other people is effected in this way too. If we allow our minds and goals to be moulded narrowly like this we exclude much of the rest of reality because we just don't see it, only actually seeing it and discovering it when the "hot" media light shines on it and so it's then valued by us. (You can see a similar psychological effect quantified on the stock market). I hope that a generation growing up with good broadband internet who can manipulate video and images and see them for what they are, can break free of that and find a braoder more inclusive reality and I kind of think that's starting to happen.

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Last edited by blissed (03-05-12 12:56:38)

viva · 04-05-12 02:47:58

Ha! HA!

Okay, I really want some people who aren't such an obvious part of the choir reading this article so we can have a real conversation without just waxing each others' mustaches. Obviously Bettina is projecting her over-sexandthecity'd, insecure guide-to-catching-your-alpha infested brainwaves on the entire population - as Blissed mentioned this is just one woman's narrow world-view, a philosophy based on Marie-Claire and a book of salad recipes.

If this article weren't so vitriolic and pathetic, it would be easier to see that there's actually something to talk about here. Is it possible to have a conversation about the future of feminists and feminism without all the misogyny - but also without reverting to that defensive place of power feminists tend to gather round for conversations like this?

It's an interesting thing - in a world where caution still precludes full trust and disclosure, and full equality is still far-off (we find that sexism and misogyny are less and less blatant, yet still full present, often in insidious ways buried deep in our internalized psyches), it is still a mine-field when it comes to telling the whole truth.

Like I heard a woman give a talk the other day about feminism in the strip-club, and it was good to hear, she was extremely intelligent and made many good points. We all know that empowerment is not the whole story, though. We know that some women go to work there and end up crushed - the sensitive ones, the delicate ones, the insecure ones who are told one too many times to get their tits done.

We know these things, but we can't talk about them yet - it's not time yet. We can't tell the truth because we don't trust the audience - because the audience still thinks we're scum. So we cry out, no, we're not scum, we're powerful, look, see us speak, hear how good and fine and rational it can be - hear how we deserve our rights. Sex workers must speak only of empowerment and control, sound mind and body, safer sex and the ease of exchanging intimacy for cash. No one should talk about the dark days, their sore pussies, the way that line of consent can grow thinner and thinner as one commodifies one's sexuality, the one one day you can feel empowered, and the next you can feel assaulted.

We cannot speak of these things because the rest of the world, watching us will say - THERE! That's what we meant all along! And then we're back at square one - madonnas and whores, illegal bitches to be used and shamed, or rescued to go gratefully limp down the backs of white knights.

Long tangent, but this topic is the same. How can women talk about the hard truths when they're confabulated, maladjusted, belittled and taken out of context only to be thrown back in our faces as an ugly, damp package of "we-told-you-so". We told you women were only good for one thing. We told you you should have listened and taken what we wanted to give you when you were young and hot. We told you that you should have shut up, backed down, said thank you, let us protect you because now?

Now you are a fruit, and now you're going to go bad. and We are going to fuck the little versions of you, and break their hearts like you broke ours, and we are going to laugh, and even when we're old little women will take care of us, but you will be alone, just a barren womb taking up space in someone's living room. Hope you learned to cook somewhere along the way, and don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

That's why and how women are triumphantly silenced, and that's what is wrong with this article and its ilk.

Here is a follow-up article in the same paper which addresses a few of Bettina's flawed observations.
Women aren't fruit and men aren't accessories.

HollyWood · 07-05-12 07:13:55

Every now and again I run into something like this that makes my blood boil. The female chauvinist pig with antiquated concepts of gendered roles in society. I even had a youtube debate with this fuckwit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vp8tToFv-bA

(excuse the term but there is none better to describe this woman posing as a feminist) and I usually shy away from internet debates, especially on a forum like youtube where many contributors are pre-teens.

It pains me, as a woman, to see other women completely miss the point, damage years of good work trying to reach and break that glass ceiling by perpetuating myths about marriage, childbirth and the meaning of life. But it's something we all have to recognise and acknowledge as a contributing factor to widespread sexism. It's not just the men - it's the female chauvinist pigs we have to be wary of too (unfortunately).

HollyWood · 07-05-12 07:33:08

I think the most important point raised by the follow up article that you posted (Viva) is that "there is absolutely no mention of the relevance of such attributes as personality, values, mutual interests, humour, etc.". It's shocking to see these ALL IMPORTANT factors overlooked in favor of superficial qualities such as profession, appearance and competition. Really - it just seems like this writer is really just a weensy bit shallow - so let's say her hubby is fucking every one of her 'opponents'. Oh well, perhaps she never appreciated the other things he (may) have to offer the world. All she's offering US is the heartache of stunting an already slow-moving advancement of women's recognition as more than child-bearing, fuck-buddy, desperado 30+ drones out to find Mr. Right.

blissed · 07-05-12 13:58:37

I reject heterosexual etiquette and replace it with the great example of Sapphic equality. If a woman is pregnant and has a small baby then there are times when she may need protecting and times when protection merely increases the success of the family. Another woman can do that protecting, it doesn't have to be a man. If your partner has drug dependancy problems wether they're a woman or a man or your a man or a woman your gonna be protecting them. A man on average, likely has a marginal increase in physical strength which is often signifiant between a man and a woman (hence the duty of men to be aware of a womans fear of rape), but that margin is fairly insignificant against the rest of the world. A police dog half our weight can bring us to the floor in seconds, no matter who we are.

Our innate general differences are culturally blown up by our polarised notion of the sexes so they become inflated and far more significant and that excess significance feels false. From my own experience both in my head and my observations of other people the sexes aren't polarised unless they want to fit themselves into their allotted mythical status.

So the way anyone can advance their understanding is to be aware of dual gender and cross gender and see how with that awareness the gender wars desolve along with the polarised arguments. Equality means the same rights across a large diversity wether it's ethnic, sexual or whatever.

.

Last edited by blissed (07-05-12 14:06:24)

HollyWood · 08-05-12 01:50:05

blissed wrote:

From my own experience both in my head and my observations of other people the sexes aren't polarised unless they want to fit themselves into their allotted mythical status.
.

It's all very well and good for a man to say that people choose to take up their allotted mythical, polarised and gendered status because you're less affected by its pitfalls. Whether you struggle against these roles or not, we are bombarded by signifiers in the popular media on a daily basis that reinforce these roles and gender ideals to the point where they're practically inescapable. Not just women, men too, think about the Mr. T Snickers ad whose slogan is "Get some nuts" - meaning 'man-up', meaning 'be stronger, be unpassable, be bigger, be better, be agressive'.

I read an article last night in Playboy April 1980 by a woman discussing the plight of the sexual revolution and how we can't move forward and be able to laugh about sex and sexuality because the final frontier of accepting all forms of sex and sexuality as a basic part of everyday life has not been broken down, so how can we (women) laugh? It hurt to think how very little we have moved forward. I don't think we have moved very far past this. I think we can all laugh now - but there are some things that can't be laughed about, as a woman, because they still hurt and they're still very much a part of our everyday reality. Like the youtube clip I just posted of a mastermind behind some sort of sexual devolution. I can't laugh, because she's not the only one with these opinions and they all set us back to the 1970-80s. Where sex lib had high hopes of transending and eventually obliterating gendered roles. yeah, not yet

viva · 08-05-12 02:01:40

DAMN how white and privileged can this MRA shit be!? white chicks talking about how poor men don't get put first in the lifeboat - my my! men even eat last! ... except in countries where there's not much food. men always eat first in those countries. also if you're a girl-baby you should drown but whatevs - we're american!

I'm torn between wishing I'd never properly opened this can of worms, and after a bit of desensitization, finding alternate viewpoints a bit constructive. It's a sliding scale of course, but if this topic is difficult to think about it probably bears incorporating into my world view - if only so that my world view has more information from which to draw to form my own opinions.

Okay it's all retarded and full of spite and hate but observing my own counter reactions is kind of cool. at this point my main commentary on it all is that mature human beings living in a position of privilege don't need anyone to apologise for them or pat their heads - they oughta be fully capable of cooly observing the world for themselves, and taking responsibility for their own actions. They ought to be keen to be called out on their mistakes and shortcomings, so that they can grow - they should not crave coddling and apologists banding around them, cooing in their ears, and shouting at their "enemies".

And you know what? That goes for women too. I personally do not consider that I need anyone to protect me. I want to be confronted because I want to think about the hard stuff, and I want to think about it in new ways. I don't want to surround myself with yes-folks of any gender. I wonder how far support truly goes - shouldn't we avoid condescending to marginalized groups, after all they've already suffered? Maybe it's a step-by step situation, where support and comfort comes first after abuse, before drawing back to allow an abused person or group to stand on their own two feet again. I can dig it - support is important. But so is expecting - and empowering - people to act like intelligent adults - thoughtful, considerate, open-minded, and responsible for their own behaviour and actions.

It's like a relationship - that old platitude about nice guys finishing last. It's myopic. The point is, people who flatter dishonestly in hopes of kisses from hotties end up cast aside in favor of people who call their partners out on bad behaviour, and are open to adjusting their own behaviour as well. People who will stand up next to their partner as equals. I won't stand next to hate-spewing apologists as equals - whether they're apologising for men or women or whoever. But, their vitriol, like most things in life can contribute to broadening my own mind and helping me adjust my own behavior.

HollyWood · 08-05-12 02:50:58

I agree Viva but if we are to help spur the growth of the final frontier of sex lib, we also have to ensure our opinions are heard and that women have the option to be independent (both single and 30+ if applicable) and not to bow down to categorisation as loney, barron and desperate. Men don't get first in the lifeboat and women don't get first pick of jobs, clothing they wish to wear, sex they wish to have and opinions they wish to hold without being condemned in some way or another by some group or another (constituted of men and/or women). So how can we move forward if it's all about our own sense of justice within ourselves and not on a wider societal scale?

blissed · 08-05-12 03:41:57

We assert our beliefs with our creativity.

HollyWood wrote:

It's all very well and good for a man to say that people choose to take up their allotted mythical, polarised and gendered status because you're less affected by its pitfalls. Whether you struggle against these roles or not, we are bombarded by signifiers in the popular media on a daily basis that reinforce these roles and gender ideals to the point where they're practically inescapable. Not just women, men too, think about the Mr. T Snickers ad whose slogan is "Get some nuts" - meaning 'man-up', meaning 'be stronger, be unpassable, be bigger, be better, be agressive'.

I'm dual gendered so calling me a man is probably as acurate as calling you a man . I have a penis but I don't want the privilige of being a cultural default sex or legal and cultural privilige over anyone. I'm feminist because there's a need to be. and I like femininity both sexual and non sexual, it has enormous value. It's also the most useful influence going forward in the 21st century.

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viva · 08-05-12 03:57:55

blissed wrote:

I'm dual gendered so calling me a man is probably as acurate as calling you a man . I have a penis but I don't want the privilige of being a cultural default sex or legal and cultural privilige over anyone.
.

I'm not sure about this. Nobody wants privilege - it sucks to have to confront your own, and it sucks every time - it doesn't really get easier. We only get practice. But accepting privilege is often an important part of being a constructive partner in those mature, responsible conversations I referred to in my last post.

Your privilege changes depending on where you're coming from and also based on the topic of the conversation. A genderqueer individual who has a penis and presents as a man socially (ie does not attempt to "pass" as a woman) will necessarily take on certain aspects of the social privilege of being a man, but in a conversation with me, also will necessitate my acceptance of my privilege as a cis-person if we are going to have any kind of useful dialogue.

HollyWood · 08-05-12 06:05:39

blissed wrote:

I'm dual gendered so calling me a man is probably as acurate as calling you a man . I have a penis but I don't want the privilige of being a cultural default sex or legal and cultural privilige over anyone. I'm feminist because there's a need to be. and I like femininity both sexual and non sexual, it has enormous value. It's also the most useful influence going forward in the 21st century.
.

Just because you're dual gendered or don't accept any gender for that matter does not mean you have been affected by social inequality as much as people who have been born biologically female. I respect and admire your position on these forums as a feminist and believe you have many interesting and valid well formed arguments on all the topics discussed but your position still differs from a woman's in terms of being confronted with polarisation of the sexes. You might not want the privilege (as a white person in Australia I would rather not have THAT privilege but I have to accept that I have it for progress to be made on that front too), but you do have some privileges that women do not enjoy. What we're talking about here, is women, like the one in the youtube clip i posted, who not only deny that male privilege exists but actually perpetuate gender inequality by doing so and by assuming that our position as mother/whore is an innate one rather than a cultural one.

aven frey · 08-05-12 08:05:28

So why the fuck did the feminists let Noah onto the god damn lifeboat? That was our chance, we cocked it up. lol.

Hollywood, I'm very much glad you're on youtube kicking against the fuckwits. When I'm captain of the lifeboat you can be first on, as long as you promise not to have a penis.

Wtf. Lifeboats, wtf!

HollyWood · 08-05-12 08:37:13

haha. I KNOW BOBBY!!

blissed · 08-05-12 12:08:42

Bobby in the real world the captain leaves 1st http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … d-man.html

Hollywood thanks for your comments Your video fuckwit, though making lots of unrealistic assumptions about lifeboats about unrecorded human history, voices some good common observations about being male, like expendability and feeling you have to achieve and do things (and impress) rather than just be, but her using them to deny the need for feminism is just silly. By her logic a caged lion is safe and has all their food for free so they've got a good life.

Viva I'm aware of the privilege I just don't want it. I've been raised as polarised male gendered so the privilege is in my subconscious and I welcome any chance I can to confront it and bit by bit get it out of there.You've helped me do that today. I think I'd revise the notion that there are times when women need protecting. Like other mammals there are women who've delivered their baby themselves alone. so I'd revise it to be inclusive. Kudos to people who can sumont their challenges and it's nice and sometimes more successful if people are able to work as a team and support each other.

In my immediate surroundings here in the queendom male privilege is mostly cultural and could be solved by a cultural shift. I few Jane Bond films that see her fucking her way around the world, a woman Doctor Who, and another woman prime minister all prompting cultural changes in attitude and language. We need to have an equal subconscious respect for people regardless of sexuality.

Anyway, thoiugh I tend to prefer femme things to butch, I like butch too and I couldn't pass as a woman. It'd be fun if I was mistaken for female and I'm always flattered when that happens here. but I'm not a woman trapped in a mans body, I like androgyny I look butch because that's how I look best, but my ideal appearance would be the option of playing with a balance of butch and femme creatively to suit my mood, Annie Lennox, Robert plant and David Bowie have all done that successfully. For me it's about butch and femme not male and female. Come to think of it I've always rejected heterosexual etiquette. I don't drink alcohol and I've never bought anyone a drink in a sexual context . I've gone out with someone, never "taken someone out" and I never will even if their disabled. Daesire is mutual, for me sex exsts in a friendspace and is it's own mutual reward and gifts are just that, freely given with nothing expected in return.

Time for lunch

.

Last edited by blissed (08-05-12 16:04:53)

artemesia · 08-05-12 13:56:57

Haha, Bettina is a right laugh. I love people who write rubbish for money I really do.

did you see this one?

Been caught peeping?

viva · 09-05-12 01:40:14

*DYING!!!** I read that one! How dare those cheeky sluts expose their tender morsels and then be picky about how people drool on them! HAHAHAHa wow. How about that fucking viral web video that she uses as an opening gambit? The yoga girl noticing the quick glance to boob and back up to her face and getting all huffy, only to be diffused by hippie dreadlock boy extolling the virtues of breasts everywhere. Moved, and outmaneuvered (that's the way chicks like it), yoga girl releases her crossed arms, exposing her cleavage in all its glory, and asks hippie dreadlock out to a coffee - oops!? she already has a date? who cares!!

wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow.

ps. where y'all ladies on this ish? personally, I don't mind the superquick glance to my tits, from men or women, old or young. It's normal, they're there and they're pretty - if someone is wearing a beautiful necklace I might look at that too. It's the speed with which its done that matters to me. When my breasts are "out" so to speak I know it and I like it and I don't mind them being noticed - respectfully - anymore than I'd mind someone noticing my pretty dress or that my hair looks nice. That's just me though.

HollyWood · 09-05-12 07:50:46

Totally Viva, If someone has their tits out I ALWAYS steal a peek. I CAN'T HELP IT. it's not necessarily a male thing. I love boobs as much as men and i'm fairly into boys. Boobs are the best, most magnificent things ever and if you gettem out - imma look! (I AM a bit of a perv though). Same goes for me, I take pleasure in people sneaking a peek. If I have them in a push-up bra and low-cut top I DO want you to look. There's a difference between looking and drooling though. A look or two is fine but if you don't look at my face at all, we've got a problem. I might sneak a peak at the bulge in your pants boys, but I'm not going to talk to your pants.

WLV612 · 10-05-12 14:21:46

HollyWood wrote:

Totally Viva, If someone has their tits out I ALWAYS steal a peek. I CAN'T HELP IT. it's not necessarily a male thing. I love boobs as much as men and i'm fairly into boys. Boobs are the best, most magnificent things ever and if you gettem out - imma look! (I AM a bit of a perv though). Same goes for me, I take pleasure in people sneaking a peek. If I have them in a push-up bra and low-cut top I DO want you to look. There's a difference between looking and drooling though. A look or two is fine but if you don't look at my face at all, we've got a problem. I might sneak a peak at the bulge in your pants boys, but I'm not going to talk to your pants.

That's a great post! Most any woman will check out a major set whether they admit it or not. I read a quote from a star who was at a party with Salma Heyak was present and she said she couldn't take her eyes off her boobs. And I love the fact you like having people peek at you. Gosh, what could be more normal? I get sick of people pretending they're not human.

aven frey · 11-05-12 03:22:40

Okay so I read the comments, it's my own fault but holy jesus there is so much lady hate out there, often from other ladies! This kind of sums up the major problem for me though, and this wasn't from a lady.

'If a woamn is secure in herself she doesn't need to stick it out there in the wind, so if the woman you choose does stick it out there she will even when you get together advertising still even when she shares a relationship with you.....SHE WILL NEVER BELONG WHOLLY TO YOU , YOU FOOL.'

I feel like in so much of this discourse there is an undercurrent of ownership over womens bodies. It's something men generally will never have to deal with so when they rant on about sexual power and biology I want to laugh and cry and cry and laugh and punch and laugh.

I hate being oogled, I hate it so much and it diminishes me even though I try so hard not to let it. Being oogled on the street especially and when I'm alone especially. It's happening less these days as I get older (and apparently embittered, but that's a whole other fun time discussion) but being blond is enough, breasts and clothing are irrelevant. I use to dye my hair dark colours when I was a teenager and young adult so to avoid unwanted attention, and it worked but it was costly and annoying. However I have no issue with what Viva and Hollywood desribe as quick glances, that is completely different. I challenge you to find someone that does. That's one of the many reasons why that video and article were just so fucking ridiculous! How did we ever become so stupid?

*edited for spelling, I never tried to kill my hair just dye it!

Last edited by bobby (11-05-12 03:25:51)

blissed · 14-05-12 00:29:05

I think there's a bit of a misundetrstanding by Viva and Hollywood. When I say

blissed wrote:

I have a penis but I don't want the privilige of being a cultural default sex or legal and cultural privilige over anyone.

I accept that privilege exists but reject it personally for myself. Where I am the privilege isn't legal it's cultural and I enjoy replacing it with equal consideration for everyone. Well the only legal part is that here in the United Queendom you need 2 doctors to authorise an abortion, when it shouldn't take any. So it's the united Queendom if we have a Queen not Kingdom by default. All these cultural defaults represent the subconscious normality that accepts that women have no agency, which is fucking ridiculous when reality will tell you otherwise in 2 secs. Yeah like the monarch who abdicates in favour of a president I have the privilege of destroying my privilege and it's lovely to see it go, because it's such a big heap of crap.

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Last edited by blissed (14-05-12 00:31:32)

viva · 14-05-12 01:34:18

I'm sorry Blissed, but privilege (as I understand it) isn't about legality and it isn't something you can reject or destroy, anymore than I could dye my skin and pass for another race. I think it's an interesting topic but also a very personal and difficult one, so possibly not appropriate to discuss further - I don't want to you to feel attacked in any way, Blissed. But the fact is that being male-bodied and male-identified by strangers is a privileged position in society, being white is a privileged position, all the way through having all your lil fingers and toes intact and being of an average body weight and having access to the internet and oh a billion other privileges we have to accept as our own. Rejecting them is also part of having them - white rich kids slummin' it and begging for coins for beers on the street, hopping trains, straight people searching for a kink to marginalize themselves just enough to be cool, for their opinions to have the same clout in hip little groups of queer folk, that they're accustomed to their opinions having in the greater society at large, men who proclaim that they are feminists so they should be allowed to maintain their loud voices in women's safe spaces - I am guilty of many of these myself. It's normal.

Blissed, I am not saying that you are implying that sort of rejection in your statement about yourself, not at all. All I am saying is that no matter who you are, you have some privilege - unless you are like, a penniless disabled fat gay brown trans baby in solitary confinement. That... would be hard.

blissed · 14-05-12 01:59:56

I don't know what the point is of what your saying. Yes I have privilege that I seek to destroy not for any other reason than the privilege is based on nonsense.

The kind of privilege we're talking about is very much about legality. If a law decriminates against someone else unfairly but not me. It is something you can destroy by ceasing the behaviour that creates it and urging everyone else to. In England I'm socially descriminated against occasionally because I have a west country accent and don't talk like the queen. All I can say is the people who do that, do me a favour and save me from their shitty company

And of course we're privilaged over someone who's physically challenged but we empathise and allow them to overcome their challenges. Racial and sexual privilage is based on total nonsense and is totally correctable.

.

Last edited by blissed (14-05-12 02:11:53)

viva · 14-05-12 02:32:36

Correctable or not, based on nonsense or not, privilege isn't something one can just reject - until every aspect of society has rejected it. We can be part of the fight, and it's complicated because just being part of the good guys team carries different connotations based on gender, race, and all that other "nonsense". Stupid or not, for now it's real, and for now we need to be aware of it - for ourselves as well as for others.

I do not have an academic background in feminism or anything else, and this is only my understanding of what 'privilege' means. But the point of what I am saying is that, when we look at society in terms of minorities, equality, and privileged majorities, a white person who presents as a man ought to accept their privilege and their position as an ally in order to fight the good fight - as opposed to denying the whole concept of privilege just because they think it's nonsense. I find other behaviour in terms of one's own privilege problematic.

Look, privilege is a nasty topic, rife with eggshells and the ugly potential for accusation - I don't like it, it makes me uncomfortable - I also think it's nonsense. Too bad it's not so easy. Personally I feel I have a very loose grasp on my own privilege and I have a hard time just being humble, and listening - I raised myself to speak the fuck up and society always told me I was smart and I could make it. I have a hard time moving in circles where being white or identifying with my girl-parts means I should be more quiet, I should watch my language - because I've built my personality on honesty, not watching what I say, and telling myself I don't care about the people who don't like me for that.

But growth means effort. I actually find this topic of privilege to be the most challenging to me of any of my recent life lessons. Maybe I'm just doing it wrong, but something tells me that if this idea makes me squirm uncomfortably, change my perceptions on how I fit into the world, and listen a little more than I speak, that's kind of the point and probably the more uncomfortable I get, the better.

HollyWood · 14-05-12 02:36:39

In what way is it totally correctable? If it were, why has it not yet been corrected? The sad truth is that these privileges and inequities are deeply engrained in everyday life, so deeply infact that we do not always notice them because we have been culturized from birth to believe they're natural/innate. Therefore, to 'correct' the situation, we need a complete overhaul of tradition, society and culture. This is close to impossible. So rather than 'correct', I think we need to 'acknowledge' rather than 'reject', and move forward based on these acknowledgements and incite change. Completely ignoring these 'truths' about the way we've been encouraged to think/feel/be in society and attempting to create a new way of thinking/being is practically impossible on a large-scale. It's like the first step to overcoming addiction is to admit you have a problem. The first step to overcoming widespread and deeply engrained sexism is to admit the reality we live in, its flaws and its shortcomings thus far.

#1 03-05-12 05:49:42

Batting for the other team

#2 03-05-12 12:10:34

Re: Batting for the other team

#3 04-05-12 02:47:58

Re: Batting for the other team

#4 07-05-12 07:13:55

Re: Batting for the other team

#5 07-05-12 07:33:08

Re: Batting for the other team

#6 07-05-12 13:58:37

Re: Batting for the other team

#7 08-05-12 01:50:05

Re: Batting for the other team

#8 08-05-12 02:01:40

Re: Batting for the other team

#9 08-05-12 02:50:58

Re: Batting for the other team

#10 08-05-12 03:41:57

Re: Batting for the other team

#11 08-05-12 03:57:55

Re: Batting for the other team

#12 08-05-12 06:05:39

Re: Batting for the other team

#13 08-05-12 08:05:28

Re: Batting for the other team

#14 08-05-12 08:37:13

Re: Batting for the other team

#15 08-05-12 12:08:42

Re: Batting for the other team

#16 08-05-12 13:56:57

Re: Batting for the other team

#17 09-05-12 01:40:14

Re: Batting for the other team

#18 09-05-12 07:50:46

Re: Batting for the other team

#19 10-05-12 14:21:46

Re: Batting for the other team

#20 11-05-12 03:22:40

Re: Batting for the other team

#21 14-05-12 00:29:05

Re: Batting for the other team

#22 14-05-12 01:34:18

Re: Batting for the other team

#23 14-05-12 01:59:56

Re: Batting for the other team

#24 14-05-12 02:32:36

Re: Batting for the other team

#25 14-05-12 02:36:39

Re: Batting for the other team

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