internet censorship, the continuation

viva · 13-10-11 00:23:18

Okay all you Brits, here's the newest step for you : if you're with one of the 4 major ISP's - BT, Sky, TalkTalk and Virgin - be sure to opt in over the course of the next 18 months to continue to enjoy your porn-soaked internet as god intended it.

Is Scarleteen an adult-oriented website? How about Violet Blue? Sex in Art's blog? What about Nio's art? Is IFM porn? okay that one's easy. anyway... oh boy.

viva · 13-10-11 00:36:20

And I'll just leave that up there to illustrate the folly of unsubstantiated frothing at the mouth (though I maintain that it's important to be aware of these censorship things) - I've read another guardian article which clarifies the issue. Rather than neccesitating an "opt in" for existing customers, ISP's will provide a choice to new subscribers, between squeaky clean PG webs and the dirty filthy cesspool that we all know and love.

This is different but still alarming. I forsee for example the archtypical porn-negative wife absolutely loving the idea, leaving hubby to get his jollies on the free WiFi at the local McDonalds. Problem?

Last edited by viva (13-10-11 00:36:50)

richard · 13-10-11 01:20:39

If it's really PG rather than say MA+, or R, then ISP's will make a killing out of providing extra accounts to homes where the parents want a clean feed for their kids.

blissed · 13-10-11 01:50:13

I don't see it as a problem. I'm probably helping some seniors in my family to finally get online and I think they'll go for the parental control option, which means if I was a contributor they will never see my work. I think Viva in the scenario your making, like Richard has said the hubs will get a mobile connection like a few of the members do here already.

The concern is about sex education. If scarleteen is encluded in the parental control option it'll have to have a mirror site type device to give people access. If young people are denied yet another thing that denergrates their life still further quite serioisly a revolution will only happen sooner rather than later. because so many people don't give sa shit about them. and and anyway people will want to opt in to al the good stuff online as soon as they possibly can.

Over time thoigh this measure is intended to creep slowley under the radar and engulf huge parts of the web experience. It won't. banned stuff becomes much more wanted and valuable.

Anyway I wrote a typical depressing north country unpoem about the UK and what I see as this classic very sly control technique, that's employed all over the world.

An honourable life has bought generations a ticket to heaven.
and a legacy for everyone to enjoy,
free education,
Clean water, no starvation and no medical bills
and we've collectively replaced that deal not with love
but simple (the new worse conditions only apply to new starters) selfishness,
so "fuck em
they're new
we're alright."

.

Last edited by blissed (13-10-11 01:56:58)

viva · 13-10-11 02:21:47

I was getting filthy on the web at the ripe young age of 11 years old, and as a sexually precocious child, raised in unpleasant circumstances I can tell you that if I had not had that outlet, I might very well have found it in meeting older men in real life and potentially ruining what has grown up into a very happy and strange sexuality. Then again, maybe I would have benefited, who knows. Certainly I had pornographic novels well before even approaching the internet sexually, and I might have stuck with them as well.

But for me the internet provided the interaction I craved while still keeping me safe. I was still a child though sexually curious - excited and scared, unsure yet rebellious. Exploring in physically perfect safety was such a great thing for me, and I would wish that kind of freedom for everyone. It's weird as an adult to think of kids being able to handle sexually graphic material, but I remember assimilating it as I was able. My sexuality was not rushed by any imagery, rather I found what I looked for, and didn't understand what I wasn't ready to understand.

Now it's interesting because already it's a different world for kids. Streaming porn tube sites and super quick downloads dump sexually graphic information into brains much more effectively, and I can't say really how that affects sexuality. But we are all evolving to handle more and more intellectual information and stimulation - it stands to reason that sexuality would evolve, or need to evolve, simultaneously.

God I hate spelling that word.

Richard, what's the point in purchasing alternate adult-only accounts for households? Wouldn't anybody that web-savvy already know about NetNanny and private ways of controlling their household's access to pornography and adult-oriented material? Or do you think that porn watchers will want to go behind their spouses or the rest of their household to secure their own private internet account?

Blissed, do you think that old people don't want to watch sexual material, or that it's positive that you can turn it off for them so they don't get shocked? I'm confused about your first paragraph.Being old doesn't preclude sexuality, of course.What does contributing have to do with it? Is it better for me as someone who's naked on the web if less people are able to see me? People seeing me, it's kind of the point.

Sex education... man. I honestly think that kids are interested in sex ed like scarleteen, intellectual stuff, questions and answers - I know I was. But adolescents - they're jsut like us! - have sex drives which demand sexual information beyond the intellectual. They want porn, and they'll find it regardless of how clean their internet is. Mormon Porn?

blissed · 13-10-11 03:02:05

Viva that's a realy interesting post and I'd lke to repond to more of it but I really have to go to bed, but I just have to respond to this

viva wrote:

Blissed, do you think that old people don't want to watch sexual material, or that it's positive that you can turn it off for them so they don't get shocked? I'm confused about your first paragraph.Being old doesn't preclude sexuality,

With these old people it does when your highly religious, stilll basically racist, homophobic, creationist, unretreavably sex negative, and old (mid 80s) but not too be under estimated and still very compiitant at organising. I'd rather they didn't regularly get all shocked and angry. If I was a contibutor and they found out I would never hear the last of it. Well I would, but only because they'd gone to heaven but in the mean time we all love them dearly and want the water to be as smooth and undesturbed as possible

.

viva · 13-10-11 03:08:13

That was a sweet rejoinder, and I see your point!

richard · 13-10-11 14:48:49

blissed wrote:

I don't see it as a problem. I'm probably helping some seniors in my family to finally get online and I think they'll go for the parental control option....
The concern is about sex education. If scarleteen is encluded in the parental control option it'll have to have a mirror site type device to give people access.

The problem isn't porn sites, it's all the stuff on the fringe. Any blog that drops a "fuck", the whole of usenet, anything about suicide, graphic news reporting - and yes of course scarleteen, but remember that's a private enterprise, it isn't some government sponsored sex ed and nobody is obliged to let it through. The issue is how the filtering will get done. If you keep coming across dead links while you're surfing in your area of interest, you're going to get pretty jack of the damn thing amd want your dirty feed back.

blissed · 13-10-11 22:46:49

True, l''m sure the 11 year old Viva would have wanted her dirty feed back too So will parents. I think parental control is more comfortable under the control of the parents, that way you can make the controls age appropriate and parents belief systems aren't all the same so what parents think is suitable for their children varies across society. As an example some parents let their under 13s have an fb account some don't.

Viva I thought that was fascinating, If I was 11 now and went from Scarleteen to Dods and Ross I'd not only be posting everywhere as an adult but my sexual journey to 16 would have been very very different. For me it would be a literary experience of erotic stories written for ladies who hopefully thought I was 30 I think the attention of people who have sinister intent I smelled out totally in real life. When I was 11 I went to my new school 9 miles away and I met a nice man on the bus, I said I liked old brass and wooden things and I went to his house on the way home and he gave me a nice set of old scientific scales with the brass weights. He might have been gay or not I don't know but he was nice. 7 years later I worked for a boss in London who was later convicted of seducing under age boys. I'd been to his house and on trips to the south bank archive store. Nothing happened but when I later read about his case in the paper I realised why I had so little work to do there

So that was my real life from 11 to 18 and my parents guided me through that (not the government) and gave me the opportunity of the risk they thought I could handle, so I could identify bad intent and eventually look after myself. If there had been a blanket curtain covering and protecting me from all badness and risk I wouldn't know it and I wouldn't know how to deal with it. I think it's better to introduce kids to the net just like that too in an individually appropriate way as a learning curve, not a blanket ban someone else is in charge of. So having thought about this it really has no point but for politicians wanting to get their foot in the door and control the net as they do old media. It won't work.

.

viva · 14-10-11 00:34:32

The internet, the ultimate equalizer that it is, necessarily means less and less control over the information feed and thoughts of others, especially and in this case, our children. our dear sweet innocent children. Well, that whole thing is a mistake... a lie that grownups tell themselves so that they can more live more comfortably vicariously through their lil babes.

The truth is, if you give children freedom, they will look at dead things and their own poo and each others genitals and they will roam the web looking at sparkly unicorn gifs and japanese schoolgirl rape and somethingawful.com and breast expansion hentai and calvin and hobbes. And that's .. okay.

Freedom of exploration's not the problem, kids being stupid is the problem. Kids are stupid because they're new and they don't know things. So they're gullible and easily abducted.

Rather than trying to wield control where ultimately there will be none (the web is everywhere), new parents should learn to adapt their parenting skills to better protect children who are more intellectually and visually experienced than ever before, yet much less exposed to actual psychical adventure and decision making. It may not be the most romantic, nostalgic image we have for children, but that's the way it is.

Redmango · 17-10-11 21:21:52

I always imagined that censorship on Internet would never occur, because the task of policing a virtually infinite flow and scope of information is practically impossible. Apparently people seem to want to try to do it anyway. I can't imagine they will succeed, but I wonder how much damage they will do before they realize the goal is unattainable.

The obvious solution (I think it's obvious, anyway) is that parents must take an active role in the lives of their children, above all communicating the message "You can ask me anything, and I will do my best to explain it to you."

Children are curious creatures, and I believe they will explore whether or not we grant them the freedom to do so. The important thing is to give them a safe environment in which to explore, like establishing Home as a safe place where they can ask any question without shame or judgement.

viva · 18-10-11 00:12:00

Just read this article this morning about parents being less furious and unreasonable about porn. Natch it's from germany, and it's not the most interesting article but it is nice to see the media representing the rational parents, at least a little.

WLV612 · 25-10-11 13:21:22

Redmango wrote:

The obvious solution (I think it's obvious, anyway) is that parents must take an active role in the lives of their children, above all communicating the message "You can ask me anything, and I will do my best to explain it to you."
Children are curious creatures, and I believe they will explore whether or not we grant them the freedom to do so. The important thing is to give them a safe environment in which to explore, like establishing Home as a safe place where they can ask any question without shame or judgement.

Ah! At last! "...Parents must take an active role in the lives of their children...."

In the days of the stay-at-home mother, there was a strong, central figure, (Still exists in some societies.) who would take that active role. Who would decide what was in the interest of the children in all facets of their growth.
Growing up in the US in the '50's and 60's many households still had a lifestyle that could be supported by one worker and that strong central figure monitored and channeled the curiosity and energy of children and allowed the freedom to explore the world in accordance with their capacity to do so safely.
My world wasn't like that having two hard-core alcoholic parents. My safe zone was outside the house.
Porn as we see today wasn't readily available and the was the least of my interest. I needed to eat. To be warm. To survive. To escape the realities of my forced existence, I turned to alcohol and drugs at an early age.
Had I been exposed to porn at that age, I doubt I'd have turned into a stalking perve but many were. Ted Bundy for one, by his own admission.
And I was certainly ruthless when it came to getting my drugs.
Viva, at age 11 was ahead of me at say, age 21 when it came to sex but I was a grown adult who had no regard for anyone or anything beyond my own needs, had we crossed paths.......
Is it the OBLIGATION of parents to structure and control what their children are exposed to and provide them with common sense approaches to life.
"Yes, I know you can operate a car but you're not able to make wise decisions to operate one on the road with millions of other drivers." That sort of thing.
Once I finally got off the "Crazy Train" I was able to grow up. As a result, I can give my grandchildren passable advice on drugs, smoking, drinking, whatever.
And the advice is always the same. "Do what ever you choose to do in life, good , bad or indifferent. Just remember everything has a price. EVERYTHING!
Don't let anyone pay the price for your actions."
In the pressure cooker they live in, I think that's the only advice I can give them that will help them as they move on.
I paid a high price for my mistakes and to my endless regret, others got hurt along the way. I have to live with that. I'm just eternally thankful only adults were involved.
I don't consider IFM porn. I wouldn't be here if I did. I consider it a comfortable adult site. We all know the very bad side of the porn industry and I won't be apart of that. IFM is a business entity. Fine. It's presentation, the models, the concept is one I find pleasant, charming and fun.
Hell, the forum alone is enough to keep me interested.
Okay, coffee awaits as do my daily chores.
Good day to all and I apologize if a blathered.

Last edited by WLV612 (25-10-11 13:22:40)

WLV612 · 25-10-11 22:46:06

viva wrote:

I was getting filthy on the web at the ripe young age of 11 years old, and as a sexually precocious child, raised in unpleasant circumstances I can tell you that if I had not had that outlet, I might very well have found it in meeting older men in real life and potentially ruining what has grown up into a very happy and strange sexuality. Then again, maybe I would have benefited, who knows. Certainly I had pornographic novels well before even approaching the internet sexually, and I might have stuck with them as well.
But for me the internet provided the interaction I craved while still keeping me safe. I was still a child though sexually curious - excited and scared, unsure yet rebellious. Exploring in physically perfect safety was such a great thing for me, and I would wish that kind of freedom for everyone. It's weird as an adult to think of kids being able to handle sexually graphic material, but I remember assimilating it as I was able. My sexuality was not rushed by any imagery, rather I found what I looked for, and didn't understand what I wasn't ready to understand.

Okay. First, your candor is refreshing. At what age were you able to sit back and evaluate or define what had taken place when you were 11?
Did you need a physical manifestation of what you saw or read?
Were there others in your circle of friends with whom you shared this interest?
Not unusual for any child to explore the sexual aspect of their minds and bodies, regardless of how confusing or frightening it may be.
In that regard, I feel that girls are more apt to be practical and less "naughty" about the process. I have a case in point but I'm having a difficult time concentrating tonight so I'll move on.

viva wrote:

God I hate spelling that word.

"Anxiety" is my toughie. Three times just then before I got it correct. And though I can pronounce the word, if I come across it in a book or a reading I'm doing, I can't pronounce it first time. That's embarrassing.

viva wrote:

Is it better for me as someone who's naked on the web if less people are able to see me? People seeing me, it's kind of the point.

That's very Zen-like. When something you're in is released, what's your thought? "60% of the world will see this." Or, "I wonder who will see this and what will they think?" Or, like a message in a bottle tossed at sea, you'll never know for sure who will see you and and will they get the message? If there is a message. If the point is people seeing you, then surely you hope to have more and more people see you, correct? Would you or have you considered the theater? I can truly say what I see on this site isn't porn. It's adult content but it's cinéma vérité. Or am I just making it more acceptable to myself, considering the age in which I grew up?

viva · 27-10-11 00:25:07

WLV612 wrote:

I can truly say what I see on this site isn't porn. It's adult content but it's cinéma vérité. Or am I just making it more acceptable to myself, considering the age in which I grew up?

I would say yes, possibly, you are automatically associating pornography with the crappy poorly-lit lies which dominate the industry. That's not to say lies aren't valuable or sexy - I personally prefer them, being a fantasy-based creature. I wouldn't want to really see a girl getting molested on the train by comic book nerds who turn into squid - that'd be weird. But I digress.

I love to call Feckstuff porn because I live in a dream world where pornography refers to lots of different modes of sex entertainment, like a rainbow or an accurate representation of how different sexualities are in real, interactive life. Where it doesn't mean "gross" and "broken" and "demeaning" but rather that stuff ++ "valuable" "educational" "beautiful" "inspiring" "affirming" and "useful" and DAREIDREAMIT ..."normal".

I work at Feck and contribute to Feck sites (in part) to give my energy and time to a cause that I deem incredibly important, that is, the rehabilitation of porn's image and an infusion of quality material into that world to make it happen.

I digress!!! so much!

WLV you asked so many questions I'd like to answer in depth, but I was sick this week so I have a lot to do and I can't dawdle too long in the forums. Hopefully I will be able to come back to them.. especially I'd like to talk about the feeling of having a video come out, and would love to hear from other contributors on that. If any ladies can beat me to it, go for it muchacha.

blissed · 27-10-11 00:40:49

I wondered why you where'nt around. Get well soon.

.

WLV612 · 27-10-11 13:39:49

viva wrote:

I work at Feck and contribute to Feck sites (in part) to give my energy and time to a cause that I deem incredibly important, that is, the rehabilitation of porn's image and an infusion of quality material into that world to make it happen.

Ah! I think the folks at Feck and their contributors do that very thing and it is socially important. More so than many people realize. But another time.....

viva wrote:

but I was sick this week so I have a lot to do and I can't dawdle too long in the forums.

Feel better soon.

WLV612 · 27-10-11 16:30:20

viva wrote:

WLV you asked so many questions I'd like to answer in depth, but I was sick this week so I have a lot to do and I can't dawdle too long in the forums.

Replies are your option, not required. I do have more. And your name, or rather you, yourself came up in a conversation this week.
Chatting about celebrities we knew or met, etc and I had to add you.

Also, it's David. Or whatever you choose. WLV612 is just easy to remember for me. Gosh, I'd guess David should be as well, shouldn't it?
Chores beckon. Good Day to all.

viva · 28-10-11 01:03:47

Oh my gosh how do I qualify as celebrity? That's so sweet.

Are there gift baskets? I love gift baskets.

Today's a good day maybe to talk about having a video go up, seeing as I'm all larger n' life grabbing my tits on the mainpage today. First of all it's simply, I like going up because then I go, damn I'm good, and have a little party for myself in my head. Like when I get published, or when my work is part of an exhibition, it's exciting to see something you've worked on come to light, as a finished and public item.

Also, in IFM there's an extra special element of vanity because in my day to day life I don't look like a sundrenched goddess orgasmically clutching her body, and it's really cool to see myself looking so cinematic and dareisayit beautiful. Not every girl gets to see herself like that and I consider myself lucky.

The rest, is a combinations of mysteries and the inevitable hangover of hubris. The positive side, I do want to know so much who sees me, I'd love secretly see them watching me and jerking off, or not even - just to see someone click play, and watch me and exhibit those first signs of arousal.. the shifting in their seat, a general warm flush, flared nostrils.. I would like to see that. I like imagining, being the cause of that.

But there is a converse reality of putting yourself out there, which is the way it can play on my insecurities. Super honesty time. I want to be on every top 10 list, I pay attention to the IFM threads and hope people will comment on my videos, wonder why more people don't. I wish I didn't think these things, or think about how I compare to others, and so I work on these things and try to enjoy positive attention without making this, about that.

The levels of intimacy in the videos and my feelings at the time of shooting play into this a lot. My next release will be an incredibly intimate offering (at least it was for me in the moment) and I am nervous/excited to share that.

The dual role of hostess and contributor can make the moment of release (no pun intended) really confronting - I feel emotionally real and vulnerable in these moments, as I do not when I am merely blarbering away in my intellectual glass house Logical smarts are a safety blanket I am well-known to wrap around my self (being a super emotional person) and actually, conversely, that's what gives me even more enjoyment when it comes to confronting moment of being "exposed" that is, naked... coming.. on this website where I present myself as a creature of intellect. I cultivate for myself the illusion of no choice - obviously I make these videos, but once I am finished actively making them, there's a feeling that they go away, and when they come up on the website it's like a moment I don't have control over - in a good way - this plays into my submissive sexuality.

Hot, scary, complicated, yay.

WLV612 · 28-10-11 03:12:19

viva wrote:

Oh my gosh how do I qualify as celebrity? That's so sweet.

On several levels. Just the way I view a portion of who I perceive you to be.

viva wrote:

Today's a good day maybe to talk about having a video go up, seeing as I'm all larger n' life grabbing my tits on the mainpage today. First of all it's simply, I like going up because then I go, damn I'm good, and have a little party for myself in my head. Like when I get published, or when my work is part of an exhibition, it's exciting to see something you've worked on come to light, as a finished and public item.

Referring to my minor foray into media production, I can relate to a point. Yeah, you bust your hump to bring an idea to reality and like you, I'm obsessed with getting it right, with knowing you did something that no one else thought of doing. Of getting the recognition. But I could only go so far and I know when to quit when I'm ahead. Your comment about "larger than life" etc, was good for a grin. If your posts weren't so well written, I'd guess you were left handed.

viva wrote:

I pay attention to the IFM threads and hope people will comment on my videos, wonder why more people don't. I wish I didn't think these things, or think about how I compare to others, and so I work on these things and try to enjoy positive attention without making this, about that.

I don't comment for the simple reason that I assume you know you're good at what you do and it's a given. Also, because you interact here. I'd be afraid that after a while, my comments would seem shallow or mere flattery rather than a true reflection of what I see and how that makes me feel. A sincere and objective compliment and flattery are two different animals. The latter being a way to gain something.
So I'll venture the former. You're good at what you do. The camera is your friend and you look so at ease with yourself. I'm also a sucker for long, dark hair and dark eyes. And because what you share here, your candor, makes viewing more intimate. More personal.

viva wrote:

The dual role of hostess and contributor can make the moment of release (no pun intended) really confronting - I feel emotionally real and vulnerable in these moments, as I do not when I am merely blarbering away in my intellectual glass house Logical smarts are a safety blanket I am well-known to wrap around my self (being a super emotional person) and actually, conversely, that's what gives me even more enjoyment when it comes to confronting moment of being "exposed" that is, naked... coming.. on this website where I present myself as a creature of intellect. I cultivate for myself the illusion of no choice - obviously I make these videos, but once I am finished actively making them, there's a feeling that they go away, and when they come up on the website it's like a moment I don't have control over - in a good way - this plays into my submissive sexuality.
Hot, scary, complicated, yay.

You're such a linear writer/thinker. I should be so lucky. My thoughts are like a fart in a skillet.
"I cultivate for myself the illusion of no choice...." Great line!
Well, once again, I've had my evening coffee and the dogs need to pee. For that matter, so do I, so that's me for the night.
Ya' know, I can't talk to my girls about sex and they're in a pressure cooker of everything our society hurls at young folks today, and that's a lot. But if I had to choose someone to speak to them about their future and sex and how their lives might be shaped by today's mores, I think you'd be just the person. That smacked of flattery, didn't it?

Last edited by WLV612 (28-10-11 03:15:55)

blissed · 28-10-11 21:53:00

Viva there's big kudos to being in porn, especially good porn. I think it's cool.

.

trevjarv · 29-10-11 13:41:56

Viva, must say I missed this idea from the Nanny State I did not vote for... thanks for the heads up. I was probably rather preoccupied with .xxx domain (will IFM be getting one?). I hope Sky don't stop me accessing porn sites soon - well, they stopped me accessing all sites not so long ago, but that is a different story entirely....

TZO2K10 · 29-10-11 20:03:52

First step, separate the internet content...Next step, Charge an ignorantly large amount for said access! <--It's only a matter of time before the greedy corporate vultures swoop on in! And to my fellow country-men(U.S.): while this bullshit is practiced in the UK, don't assume it won't make it over here!

THIS is why I believe that children shouldn't have access to the internet, mainly because most mainstream parents who refuse to learn anything about the internet/computers consistently let their offspring run amok online! I saw this coming the moment that the internet got popular with the bloody mainstream!

WLV612 · 29-10-11 20:28:24

TZO2K10 wrote:

".......mainly because most mainstream parents who refuse to learn anything about the internet/computers consistently let their offspring run amok online! I saw this coming the moment that the internet got popular with the bloody mainstream!

Absolutely! For years my work was such that I didn't need a computer but that changed literally overnight and I have a lot more computer experience than most people half my age and that's not a great deal. The internet is very porous and many kids just spend hours learning how to hack and bypass security features, etc.
Amok is correct!
I enjoy the ability to access the internet but it's still a scary place. There's a lot of risk every time a person get's on the 'net.
Most of the time it's marketing trends that are tracked but there's a lot of information to be had for the wrong purpose.
Now, in any criminal investigation, the first thing law enforcement does is confiscate the computers. And even the top of the line shredders won't clean your hard drive to the point where someone can't rebuild a file.
What's scary is if people can see who had accessed a certain site, they can also add people to that site list and in court, it's a smoking gun.
IFM is an ultra clean site and hat's off to their IT folks.

viva · 31-10-11 00:47:48

tehe I'll just leave this here.

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