boys and men, terrified of sex?

viva · 22-01-20 01:18:34

It's not something we often discuss in the world, but this is true for me:

Stereotypes about the way men should act, feel, and fuck almost destroyed my chances at having a happy relationship.

I had so many assumptions about the opposite sex, as we all do. But there was no socially acceptable justice movement telling me that my ideas about men might be faulty. I considered myself a thoughtful person, someone who tries hard to be a good communicator, invested in my relationships - it was the men who were faulty, the men who couldn't communicate their feelings, or even feel them properly, the men who wouldn't listen, who took me for granted, who didn't want me "enough" or in the right way.

It took me a long time to figure out - I wasn't listening to them, and maybe never had. I didn't understand my individual partners, or "men" at all, as distinct from my female experience. I thought I did though. I thought if a man wanted a woman, she would know it - that guys weren't ever really shy or unsure or needed patience - those were just signs they "didn't want me".

Blinded by stereotypes, I wasn't able to truly see them, or hear what they were saying. I couldn't see the efforts they made, in comparison to the efforts I thought they "should" be making.

Once I started to be able to listen, I encountered a world of men who wanted, and needed, to talk about their experience. I met young men who told me how much porn had harmed them, and who reported feelings like the article, being scared of sex.

We talk so much about how women aren't seen as people, but men are objectified too, with real consequences. And they're socialised not to talk about it.

"According to the latest data by the General Social Survey, men between the ages of 18 and 29 are having less sex than ever; the number of abstinent men has nearly tripled in the last decade, from 10 percent in 2008 to 28 percent last year."

Article is worth a read, even just to consider.

https://nypost.com/2020/01/11/why-today … ed-of-sex/

troyforyou · 23-01-20 01:13:27

It can be hard, Viva. Really hard. Throw in a disability..... My friend's wife on FB says I always makes her laugh and she'll never figure out why I'm single.

viva · 23-01-20 01:23:23

Yeah, having a disability would make it even harder to connect with people in the world. I'm sure so many people would see your disability first and disregard you for that

I wonder if this is too senstiive a topic to discuss on a forum. And also maybe a lot of members are a bit older, and grew up when porn was a bit more wholesome? It's mostly young men I hear from that say porn has really harmed their sense of sexuality and attitude towards women. Though I imagine sexism towards men has harmed all men, really, just as sexism has in some way affected every woman.

troyforyou · 23-01-20 02:21:57

It is a sensitive. Its a cop out to use disability as an excuse. Someone I know has made overtures which I am sure you would think are obvious. Yet I remain, metaphorically, paralyzed.

And then there is the sex leads to marriage leads to divorce leads to financial ruin.

But thanks for bringing it up. Sorry if I am a downer.

viva · 23-01-20 03:04:59

you're not a downer! individual experiences matter. I guess I was interested here in whether people think this is a societal issue, and if so, what could be done to start to see change in this area? personally, public discussion has always been my go-to for effecting change, because I feel most comfortable with words. I believe discussion reduces taboo and begins to change shared ideas about any given topic. To this end, I believe increased education for teens about porn could help a lot - in the article, the guy interviewed mentioned that if only his father had spoken to him openly, instead of just hypocritically saying that watching porn is "bad", that could have changed things for him. unfortunately, sex-and-porn positive sex education is hard to find... it's important that we tell people that porn isn't evil, that it just needs to be consumed mindfully.

perfectlysexy · 23-01-20 21:52:23

"it's important that we tell people that porn isn't evil, that it just needs to be consumed mindfully."

I believe that all media is better consumed mindfully.

And thus I will not consume anything from the New York Post. I value the health of my mind too much to feed it garbage.

I believe that strong social gender norms and patriarchy hurt men as well as women. That point has been raised for decades and is certainly worthy of ongoing discussion.

viva · 23-01-20 23:40:22

I know New york post is a trash mag but I found this article interesting anyway and thought it might stimulate that ongoing discussion. YYldGHU.png?1

vagans · 24-01-20 22:25:51

viva wrote:

It's not something we often discuss in the world, but this is true for me:
Stereotypes about the way men should act, feel, and fuck almost destroyed my chances at having a happy relationship.

viva, have you ever read Scott Aaronson's blog comment about how after reading too much feminist theory and too many articles about rape culture his younger self concluded that he couldn't see a way to express his sexuality and asked to be chemically castrated (his current wife is thankful that the doctor said no)? One summary is on another post on his blog https://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=4361

Edit, here is another, by Aaronson a few years after the original post:

in the nerdy life that I lived, there seemed to be no realistic way to try to initiate relationships, free from the risk of social or moral condemnation. And crucially, I was not wildly wrong about this. It’s actually true that, any time you try to steer a friendship or acquaintanceship or colleagueship in a sexual or romantic direction, you run a risk of creeping the other person out or making them feel uncomfortable or objectified—in effect, putting up a massive amount of moral and reputational collateral that gets returned to you only at the other person’s pleasure. It’s true that this particular burden falls overwhelmingly on guys, because of the social expectation on them to initiate, which generations of feminism have barely managed to dent. It’s true that, if nerdy guys were able to query a committee of feminist bloggers in any uncertain situation, the committee’s advice would basically never be “just go for it! make a move on that girl! what do you have to lose?” (Much like no lawyer will ever say “just go for it! do what you think is reasonable, even if there’s a chance you’ll get sued!”)

If you are kind of socially awkward and introverted and prone to obsessive compulsions, you hear the people telling you that thou shall not make passes at co-workers, hobby-buddies, or in any "non-sexual context" and think "so the ethical options are online dating, those one-minute-date things, or paid sex? I don't like crowded drunken parties and I never just met someone in the course of my life who made it unambiguously clear that they want to bone me before!" If you are single and looking, and for whatever reason online dating is not for you and loud drunken parties don't make you feel sexy, its a confusing time right now.

Sometimes I had awkward conversations with ladyfriends who were worried that I didn't get an erection fast enough, when I was sick or sad or had not been with them very often. I think they had an idea that all men can get rock hard whenever someone flashes some pubes at them.

Last edited by vagans (24-01-20 23:20:27)

vagans · 24-01-20 22:57:22

In school we did woodworking and I remember that the teacher lectured everyone about how if they were not careful they would loose both hands and an eye and spend the rest of their lives in a hospital. And that is great if you are the kind of 16-year-old who feels immortal (or one teacher trying to supervise too many students in a shop full of power tools), but if you are the cooperative or neurotic type it makes you scared of the machines and makes you more likely to mess up.

A lot of sex education, both in school and in the media, is like that: "use condoms or you will die of aids and antibiotic-resistant syphilis!" "you are probably already a sexual harraser and you just don't know it!" And that can be the right framing for some people, the kind who can think of all kinds of reason why making passes at employees in the next department is totally OK and why they don't need a condom just this once, but it can mess up people who are imaginative and nervous. Some people need lessons in how to spot when someone is flirting with them, and not to talk themselves out of inviting someone on a date.

vagans · 26-01-20 15:17:58

The story about a man who felt like a loser because he had not had sex at 20, and the woman who raped someone who was stumbling drunk because "men always want sex so I don't need to ask" are good examples of how more evidence-based information would really help. A lot of young people who are queer or get interested in guys/girls late end up very confused because the media they see presents one path as 'the way' and that path is not the right one for them (or in my case, none of my friend circle were dating, except for one who met someone at work and another who I am not sure how they met their partner). A lot of people want guides to "men" or "women" not the person across the room whom they fancy!

Sex is powerful and intimate and there are a lot of screaming messages about STIs or misandric divorce laws and not so many about how to have good sex with someone you like.

Its too bad that Google and social media censor anything sex-related and genitalia-related, and that there is such a market for "do a survey and report the answers as if nobody lies about sex" kind of studies. Scarleteen and Meg-John Barker and Sex, etc. are really swimming upriver!

Sadoraan123 · 27-01-20 05:11:04

I sometimes wonder if this has in some way been the case for me. I've watched porn for years now (though never mainstream porn, which i think a lot of this is referring to), I also have essentially no interest in sex, and never really have. I spent a long time throughout my teens and early 20's depressed because I was forcing myself to go through to motions of meeting people, sex, dating etc because I thought it was what i had to do, because it was what "normal" men/people did, when in reality i'd rather just not have bothered.
It's only been in the last few years that i've realized I don't have to live the way society expects me to, and that as long as i'm content and happy, then that's all that matters.

However, recently i've been reading a lot of things about porn, warping men's views of sex, or killing their sex drives, stopping them from seeking relationships etc. I'm logical enough to know that i'm consuming porn in a healthy way, but it did make me wonder if I had cut porn out of my life at a younger age, would I view sex and relationships differently now?

vagans · 27-01-20 22:25:16

Kate Sloan decided a few months ago that she felt demisexual but she has a friggin' sex blog. There are all these cultural messages that everyone wants partner-sex and a relationship or a polycule is part of everyone's good life but that is not necessarily so!

Sex and relationships are weird and I think a lot of people turn to the Internet to figure things out. Sometimes they end up on Tumblr yelling about TERFs or on 'incel' forums trading hot tips about negging though

_hyperballad_ · 28-01-20 01:26:20

Porn literacy taught in combination with highly educational, non judgmental sex education with a strong focus on consent & pleasure would go a long, long way. Imagine the difference proper safer sex/porn/pleasure information would have made to your teen years!

viva · 31-01-20 02:05:22

Vagans I really appreciate your contributions and experiences, yeah I think it is a problem that the traditional courting rules have been totally decimated and nothing but "GET CONSENT" has replaced them. Of course I'm all for consent but as you say, in real life it's not so simple. People don't speak so formally, and often lines are blurry, not because of the misbehaviour of one or another person involved, but because both people are feeling their way in the dark, as it were, finding love, finding sex, finding each other, without complete verbal awareness, in their own minds or between each other.

of course, there are a lot of guys doing bad things to girls, and it's a problem, obviously, and I get that these movements and concepts are a way to prevent that. consent is obviously! obviously great. and both men and women can benefit from learning how to slow things down and be present and aware with their actions. so I wouldn't want to take anything away from that.

but I do want to respond somehow to the side-effects that you describe, Vagans, where men who are anything less than super handsome/suave/confident are feeling really lost with how to relate to women. And also probably frustrated as well, because "women" aren't simply passive and perfect - they're active agents and unless they themselves are perfectly confident, skilled in communication, and have the highest self-esteem (ie the kind that makes you kind, not the kind that makes you haughty) they're probably also often responding and acting from negative gender-enforced socialisation.

I think mainly I just want to go deeper, further from the first step - men rape/abuse/harass, and men need to stop - going deeper to understand more elements which inform this dynamic, something more than just the implied "men are born beasts". I think the built up pain/disempowerment/frustration from a combination of "trying to be good" and feeling like the results are "unfair" or that the situation is "impossible" can definitely contribute towards those high rates of violence and suicide we see from men.

I also know that women have their own mental, emotional, and social ways of hurting men that may not always be as obvious, but have deep systemic effects which can be impossible to truly identify or protest, and therefore hard as well to heal. For example, in feminism we are asked to consider Margaret Atwood's idea:

Novelist Margaret Atwood writes that when she asked a male friend why men feel threatened by women, he answered, "They are afraid women will laugh at them." When she asked a group of women why they feel threatened by men, they said, "We're afraid of being killed."

This quote is meant to understood the inequity of male fear and female fear - obviously, they are not equally serious. Female fear of men is much more serious.

We can all agree that death is worse than being laughed at. But if we decide to consider both experiences as valid, and shift our attention to the male perspective, with some understanding of the ways patriarchal culture informs the male experience we can understand that women, with their scorn, laughter, and solidarity, have a very serious form of power which can be wielded against men. It perhaps cannot cause death, but it can cause social exile, which is a pretty serious concern, much more than merely being laughed at. For example, in WW1, English men who did not enlist to fight in the war were famously given white feathers by local women, which shamed them for not being "real men". A man who received a white feather was not considered desirable, could not find love, sex, connection, marriage, with the women around him. We only see this as trivial if we have a real streak of misandry and cannot feel compassion towards men. If we think compassionately, or even simply academically, we know that to be considered "untouchable" by eligible partners is actually a grave and serious problem, with considerable mental heath consequences. Men would choose death in the army rather than be "laughed at" in this way.

and even if we are merely talking about scorn, and not the kind of scorn that sends men running to war, if we compare it to violent death perhaps it's trivial. But if we consider it on it's own, it is not. We know that bullying and contempt have negative effects on self-esteem and enhance feelings of depression, isolation, fear, and anger. Enough internalised and experienced "being laughed at" - well. the idea of a "good man", tortured by the messaging from the media about how bad men are, not really offered messages of genuine love for masculine identity - that person believing that the only way to be good is to extinguish his sexuality entirely, is not surprising to me at all.

I really don't have the best tools to discuss this - there's a real fear, even for me, of being mocked with sarcastic slogans like "what about the menz" and "#notallmen". But I really, really want to, so much so that I will be doing a thesis next year on masculinities and emotional abuse.

I believe that women need to be empowered to say NO, and men need to learn to take no for an answer. But I also suspect that there are typical and traditional male/female relating behaviours which men need to learn to identify, and say no to as well. I would like to bring this more and more to light.

perfectlysexy · 31-01-20 08:37:22

I will be doing a thesis next year on masculinities and emotional abuse.

You might find this useful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nheskbsU5g
At 23:27 it talks about the damage done by the media perpetuating the idea that men should want sex all the time and thus cannot be victims of sexual assault.

yeah I think it is a problem that the traditional courting rules have been totally decimated and nothing but "GET CONSENT" has replaced them.

In my experience I have not seen the decimation of traditional courting rules. People seem to still like being asked out, on a date, or just to get to know someone better. It's fine to ask and it's fine for someone to say yes or no. Problems arise when people are pressured or coerced or if someone says no and faces backlash, which is why situations that involve power dynamics, like offices are problematic for some people.

A lot of young people who are queer or get interested in guys/girls late end up very confused because the media they see presents one path as 'the way' and that path is not the right one for them

I agree that people would be better off with more accurate and diverse portrayals of love, and sex, and relationships of various kinds. But I think we're seeing that slowly enter the consciousness. Netflix has some good shows in this regard I think.

If you are single and looking, and for whatever reason online dating is not for you and loud drunken parties don't make you feel sexy, its a confusing time right now.

I feel sympathy toward this position but I don't experience the situation being as dire as some men seem to want to make it out to be. I would agree that in many places men are still expected to initiate and maintain conversations, and the initiation into a romantic relationship. So, men, especially shy men, would do well to practice conversation and get comfortable with it. From there it is easy to talk to people and engage with them. If you enjoy talking with someone, you can invite them to lunch, or coffee, or tea, or to go do something. It's really not that scary. Being rejected is no one's favorite thing, and it certainly happens to some more than others. But some paths in life just have high likelihoods of certain outcomes.

viva · 03-02-20 01:00:11

Traditional courting rules are definitely... shifted, at least in my experience. I know so many people who just never went on dates at all before tinder and that - we just fumbled our way into hooking up. Maybe that was just in my world of artsy, nerdy, or generally weird kids, and maybe the hot people were like, getting more formally pursued and asked out and hand holding and then kissing and then touching and then having sex like in a neat orderly row... but yeah. With my friends and in my experience it wasn't like that, there were no dates, and there were no rules. Just hormones, free-time, angst, alcohol, and lots of things happening under blankets.

If you enjoy talking with someone, you can invite them to lunch, or coffee, or tea, or to go do something. It's really not that scary. Being rejected is no one's favorite thing, and it certainly happens to some more than others.

I understand that not everyone experiences the same challenges, but minimising people's lived experiences and taking a stance of "well, they shouldn't really complain/they don't really have anything to complain about" is a surefire way to encourage repression and discourage people from expressing their genuine feelings. Something that's "really not that scary" or difficult for you, may be a serious problem for someone else.

I mean many women may express that they don't mind catcalling or feeling appreciated by men in the street. Many may express that they're comfortable with sexy, fun advertisements, and they don't feel body shamed - perhaps because their bodies more or less match what is perceived as desirable - so they're fine.

But the world is getting better because women who don't like those things are speaking up and being heard. Due to hearing these feelings rather than saying, eh, it's really not that bad - we have more body positive advertisement than ever, and a shifting cultural norm for street behaviour and general harassment.

perfectlysexy · 04-02-20 02:23:30

Traditional courting rules are definitely... shifted

I agree with that.

You are correct that my wording was flippant and particularly poorly chosen. I apologize for that.

vagans · 04-02-20 23:17:50

Viva, thanks for sharing! I thought the whole drunken fumbling was a USA thing? I guess my problem was that after I got interested in ladies I was not in mixed social circles, aside from people I knew at university but didn't see at other times.

perfectlysexy wrote:

I feel sympathy toward this position but I don't experience the situation being as dire as some men seem to want to make it out to be. I would agree that in many places men are still expected to initiate and maintain conversations, and the initiation into a romantic relationship. So, men, especially shy men, would do well to practice conversation and get comfortable with it. From there it is easy to talk to people and engage with them. If you enjoy talking with someone, you can invite them to lunch, or coffee, or tea, or to go do something. It's really not that scary. Being rejected is no one's favorite thing, and it certainly happens to some more than others. But some paths in life just have high likelihoods of certain outcomes.

I think it depends on where you are, and that makes Internet conversations hard. In the USA there seem to be places where dating is not a thing for people under 25, places where everyone is on Tinder, and places where young people meet face-to-face.

_hyperballad_ · 05-02-20 00:15:04

I feel sympathy toward this position but I don't experience the situation being as dire as some men seem to want to make it out to be. I would agree that in many places men are still expected to initiate and maintain conversations, and the initiation into a romantic relationship. So, men, especially shy men, would do well to practice conversation and get comfortable with it. From there it is easy to talk to people and engage with them. If you enjoy talking with someone, you can invite them to lunch, or coffee, or tea, or to go do something. It's really not that scary. Being rejected is no one's favorite thing, and it certainly happens to some more than others. But some paths in life just have high likelihoods of certain outcomes.

I would go so far as to say that I empathise, I've been through 2 significant periods of my life where I experienced debilitating social anxiety & would have to leave outings because I was so certain people hated me, that I was giving myself panic attacks. That's the thing though, I eventually had to make a choice, tackle this issue or continue sinking into a pit where I can't spend time with people, much less meet anyone new.

I have so much compassion for those who move through the world carrying fear but I can see quickly how this fear in men is radicalised & becomes hatred, it's frightening. It's like there's 'rejection' & then a certain kind of rejection only men experience, but like, it's the same rejection we all get? I've been turned down by guys & girls I really, really liked. I don't think I'm even that well adjusted... I don't know where I'm going with this train of thought, but there has to be more we can do for boy children & teens to adjust their expectations & help develop appropriate coping mechanisms.

Last edited by _hyperballad_ (05-02-20 00:15:45)

viva · 05-02-20 00:25:27

I think we would go a long way just being kind and validating emotional experiences without adding "But you should also really just buck up and deal with it". This happens to men and women, it happens to everyone in a society that can't deal with emotions, and it leads to greater problems, like the radical hatred you are talking about, in both genders. Generally speaking I would think men do get this specific poison crumpet worse, because of how we raise them, and the role toxic masculinity plays in our society.

viva · 05-02-20 00:37:52

This is the distinction I'm trying to make:

when I was actively grieving, I really needed to hear: what you're going through is real, and it's horrible.

I didn't need to hear, yes, what you're going through is horrible, but everyone feels this way sometimes, it's part of life, you can't let it destroy you, come on now, get back in the game.

You know what I mean?

I think the reason I'm taking such an interest in this stuff is because I see it strongly in myself. It's same as the feeling of recognising privilege... I see that I am contributing to a damaging cycle, because I also want to respond to men the second way. Men who are angry, hurting, bitter, in pain - I'm scared of that and I want to minimise it. Even in my intimate partnerships. Learning to allow my partner to feel, express feeling, and hold space for him the way I'd want someone to hold space for me, has started to change the way I think about masculinity in general.

We have adverts helping women understand that domestic violence is not their fault, they don't have to take it, and offering resources to get help. These are generally aimed toward women, but occasionally they show that men can be abused physically as well.

What would the world think about adverts helping people, and especially men, understand that emotional abuse exists too and that it's not okay? That if someone makes them feel stupid, or slow, or interrupts them speaking, or yells at them, they're allowed to say stop, they're allowed to leave?

Like in that article Mew posted - I think many men just kind of take this sort of abuse and then they snap. Obviously that's fucked up, and they can't snap, but it would be helpful perhaps if they knew that there's another way. A way to feel loved, and supported, as you are, even just by your own self. By leaving relationships that make you feel bad.

I listened to this thing the other day... not the whole thing, but a lot of it. An audio recording of Amber Heard and Johnny Depp fighting, in which it becomes clear that she, not he, was the physically abusive one. A few years or so ago when she destroyed Johnny in the press, I just believed her flat out. He's a friend of my family and I was disappointed and disgusted. I judged him really, without even considering the alternative, even though I've never met her and knew nothing about her.

I guess it's normal because male domestic abuse is so, so prevalent, so much more than the reverse. But we also know from studies on male depression that the rates of men reporting abuse and mental/emotional health struggles is very low.

Last edited by viva (05-02-20 00:44:19)

_hyperballad_ · 05-02-20 02:48:23

I guess the thing that trips me out is that I see so few men that are well adjusted or community 'leaders' addressing the very things you're talking about Viva. It's disappointing that men don't come through for one another in this regard. I've actually argued pretty extensively with the men in my life about their apathy towards other men.

So maybe that's a very real thing that can be taught to boys - look out for one another, talk about how you feel, develop strategies with your mates to talk about your emotions, be willing to help other boys find their feet & create a nurturing male community together.

I don't disagree that men who have experienced emotional, physical or sexual abuse need specialised support & care. I think accessing that care has to be lead by other men much, much more though. The idea of female to male abuse is stigmatised, a lot needs to be done to undo that stigma also.

SethKindra · 06-02-20 12:42:15

It is a very interesting read the blog has made about. Although from what I read about isn't as much as a terrified of sex, it's more of a fear of intimacy. At least that's what it's could've been re-titled to.

As for what Viv, HB and everyone else is saying is that there are some points that are valid when it comes to damaging a person's psyche in terms of love/intimacy/sex/etc. And that there should be ways to allow those people to be healed so they wouldn't hurt themselves or others. I met some entertainers and such in my life who struggled with general depression and the like. My person philosophy is that is if you feel weighed down and no one would help you, the first person who should help you is you. And only you should ask yourself that question "Do you want, really want, to be healed?" And if the answer is yes, you'd ask yourself "Shall I allow those around me to help me and for me to help them in return?" That's at least all I can think of right now.

As for me personally, it's another story. I have acute high-functioning autism. Long story short, I have trouble socializing with people, especially with lack of eye-contact. In fact dating-wise, I never went past the first date. I guess it might be because I've been afraid of disappointment, if I get rejected easily, if I ask a person's girlfriend by mistake, etc. I used to be afraid to look someone in the eyes because they'll see that everything I do or say will automatically would be a red flag to them. And I haven't been able to find love for years.

I'm not saying this to put women off. I actually do love women. It's a good thing I found this site and it's forum because now I understand women a little. I understand that men and women will be accepting love on their own terms and when the love fits and be allowed to be a healing tool for one another.
Me personally, for now I am fine being single. Maybe I will find love sometime down the road if and when I am ready, but for now... I'm scared.

P.S. Sorry if I sounded down, frighting and not making any sense. It was late and I had a few Merlot, but it was something I needed to get off my chest. If you need me to take the post down, I understand.

viva · 07-02-20 00:07:51

Seth, thank you so much for your vulnerable and honest post. I also learn so much about people here and I treasure the opportunity to go deep.

Your post makes me think of the show "Atypical". Have you seen it? I think autism is becoming less and less a frightening mystery. In the US, there's even a dating app for folks on the spectrum to find love and friendship, it's called Hiki. Now dating apps are weird enough for neurotypical people, I couldn't really deal, so I don't know if you'd be interested. Being single is awesome anyway. And I'm glad you have IFM and us!

Oh I have one question if that's okay. How do you feel about eye contact on IFM, like when girls talk and look directly into the camera lens? Do you feel to look away, or can you stay looking in their eyes?

I think I partially disagree with one thing you say...

My person philosophy is that is if you feel weighed down and no one would help you, the first person who should help you is you. And only you should ask yourself that question "Do you want, really want, to be healed?" And if the answer is yes, you'd ask yourself "Shall I allow those around me to help me and for me to help them in return?"

I think it's an important personal philosophy to believe that you are the one to best help yourself, as long as it's empowering you rather than isolating you! However, I would not extend this to other people. We never know where someone is at - perhaps they simply are not able to help themselves, or perhaps the next step in their journey is to open up and let others help them, or perhaps, they don't even feel they want to be healed. But they still deserve love, help, attention, and a society that encourages them that they don't have to be alone.

I feel like this philosophy is so good when we feel strong! But when we are just learning, or carrying a lot of invisible emotional pain, when we need help the most - this philosophy can be used internally to make us feel even worse. I know I have spent a lot of time trying to be strong on my own, thinking that was the right way to be, when really, I needed to connect with others and get help.

I think there's always help and resources out there to find help... so many humans with so much compassion that just want to hear the pain of others and show that they care. Relationships can be built like this, that can lead to more sustainability later as a person starts to get on their own two feet. But I believe no man is an island, and we need healthy interdependence in order to achieve true independence.

SethKindra · 10-02-20 12:46:54

Wow, thanks Viva for your reply. I didn't expect the response would be deep as well.

Havent seen Atypical, but I just seen the trailer and interviews. It is intriguing and I will watch it when the opportunity arrives. As for the dating apps, never heard of Hiki, but I'll have a look. Did try Tinder and Bumble in the past, but didn't get far from both.

As for the eye contact with the girls on IFM, I have to say at first I do look away as I find it intimidating. Like I said, I was afraid of having judgement if I stare at people. However, over the years I was taught by myself and others that eye contact doesn't have to be judgmental. Plus, I did a bit of amateur theater, it also helped to be more comfortable with looking people in the eyes. Just because I don't have 100% eye contact with someone doesn't mean that I don't listen to them. So to answer your question, I can look them in the eyes. It's just takes a while to get used to them. The eyes on all of you girls are just as beautiful as everything else

As for the other half of the post, I guess there are good points to what you said. It was just a draft idea I had. Still, I thank you for the feedback. It is food for thought you've given me.

And also, I'm also glad to have the IFM girls and the energy you've shared with me and others. It did help me all these years.

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boys and men, terrified of sex?

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