Fires in Australia

SensualGnostic · 01-01-20 15:36:29

Hi all!

I haven't been in the forums in a long time, but I wanted to wish everyone a happy new year. I have been hearing on the news in the USA of the bush fires in Australia. I hope everyone stays safe and that they get under control soon now. Be well, everyone!

richard · 02-01-20 03:21:51

Thanks for your thoughts. The fires have affected some people very close to us in tragic ways. And still our archaic government won't stand up and face the future of climate change.

erolscom · 02-01-20 04:25:47

Do they say it (climate change) is a hoax ?

richard · 02-01-20 06:34:44

erolscom wrote:

Do they say it (climate change) is a hoax ?

It's mostly "We're a small contributor to the problem and we can't afford the measures required to cut carbon emissions".

Howland · 02-01-20 17:33:35

Sorry to hear about tragic outcomes! Best of luck -- we''ll keep our fingers crossed for you.

SethKindra · 03-01-20 06:31:27

I hope the fires do get extinguished and soon. While the fires in Australia are burning, New Zealand is also kind of turning into The Land of the Long Brown Cloud (at least the South Island)

privignus · 03-01-20 22:11:09

Yeah, all the smaller countries say "look at the big countries!," and the big countries blame each other. The cost of not cutting emissions never comes up. Its all part of a propaganda strategy going back to the 1970s and 1980s.

I hope for rain and wiser leadership in Oz.

Last edited by privignus (03-01-20 22:17:19)

stevenb4126 · 06-01-20 15:39:33

I just want to reiterate what has been said above. My thoughts are with you all.

erolscom · 06-01-20 17:10:43

Australia would have to stop mining and exporting coal to make a significant international contribution to addressing the climate crisis and that's not likely to happen. Global concerns about the future are outweighed by present economic considerations; US is even worse.

viva · 07-01-20 00:57:27

It's literally illegal (according to international trade law) in many ways to make the actions which might contribute to a country's financial security while also ameliorating climate change. In 2012, Ontario tried to turn towards green energy production with incentives for producers to buy manufacturing hardware and other services from local businesses. In this way they could go green while retaining and producing jobs locally. They were found to be in breach of WTO law because it is illegal for government programs to incentivise companies to buy and hire locally. Source.

In fact, WTO disputes have been used actively to shut down green power production all over the world. "In 2010, for instance, the United States challenged one of China’s wind power subsidy programs on the grounds that it contained supports for local industry considered protectionist. China, in turn, filed a complaint in 2012 targeting various renewable energy programs in the European Union, singling out Italy and Greece (it has also threatened to bring a dispute against renewables subsidies in five U.S. states). Washington, meanwhile, has launched a World Trade Organization attack on India’s ambitious Jawaharlal Nehru National Solar Mission, a large, multiphase solar support program—once again, for containing provisions, designed to encourage local industry, considered to be protectionist. As a result, brand-new factories that should be producing solar panels are now contemplating closure. Not to be outdone, India has signaled that it might take aim at state renewable energy programs in the U.S." (Naomi Klein, This Changes Everything, 2014).

The consequences for disobeying trade law are much more severe and much more strongly enforced than the consequences for failing to meet goals set by climate agreements. And the two standards are directly in opposition - free global trade means container ships (whose carbon output on the seas is not added to any one countries emission records), jumbo jets, and diesel trucks. It also means global interdependence and competition, from which one country can not easily untangle itself.

My point is just to echo yours, Erolscom. Many people here cry out for Australia to end their business with coal, or just give the trillions we spend on subsidising "the fuel economy" to people who have lost their homes in the bushfires. I know we have to keep fighting, and that all this has to change, but in some ways, the under-informed tone of meme-based activism makes me feel more hopeless than the actual issues at play.

Last edited by viva (07-01-20 05:24:43)

_hyperballad_ · 07-01-20 02:48:48

All I know is that my country is on fire, my friends are fighting for their homes & lives, our wildlife has been irreparably damaged & we're not even actually technically in bush fire season yet - that's typically Feb/March.

Oh & I can't breathe! I'm not even in a place where the air pollution is the worst, but I'm on ventolin because I have become asthmatic, my house is closed up like fort knox & today especially my eyes are shocking.

I am heartened by the way so many people are reaching out though, there's an enormous amount of fundraising occurring on Twitter - but if our fire services were adequately funded we wouldn't need #hoesagainstscomo ect.

Sorry if I'm not my usual self, I can generally always look on the bright side - but in this situation there isn't a bright side, not to mention that grief, anger, pain & fear is an entirely appropriate reaction to what is happening in Aus right now.

I can only hope this whole horrific catastrophe brings about a significant change in leadership & funding for Aus.

Monotreme · 08-01-20 15:03:29

I'm so sorry, Hyperballad. We here on the other side of the Pacific are hoping that something good will come out of our march toward evil and intolerance.

At some point the world has to come back around to love and understanding.

Doesn't it? Please tell me it does.

viva · 08-01-20 23:44:06

there is still so much love and understanding.. it just doesn't make the news

_hyperballad_ · 10-01-20 00:16:23

There has been an enormous rallying cry from our community which IS something to hold onto in these quite dark times.

Thanks so, so much Monotreme & I really fkn hope so. I really do.

kypris · 10-01-20 09:28:03

viva wrote:

I know we have to keep fighting, and that all this has to change, but in some ways, the under-informed tone of meme-based activism makes me feel more hopeless than the actual issues at play.

I agree, the global community is very complex, there are no simple black and white solutions.

_catherine_ · 17-01-20 01:31:33

Hi SensualGnostic! Thank you for your concern. The fires have been truly terrifying. My family were evacuated, my small area in NSW has been devastated. Not to mention the economic impacts of a town that survives only on tourism money from the summer months. We were so lucky to have our homes safe but our hearts have been battered. It feels like an apocalyptic movie here, it's hard to feel positive about the future in this state. But we must try and retain some ounce of positivity so we don't lose ourselves in this. Thank you for the message, rest assured we will fight for change in this backward country <3 <3

privignus · 19-01-20 20:30:38

viva wrote:

My point is just to echo yours, Erolscom. Many people here cry out for Australia to end their business with coal, or just give the trillions we spend on subsidising "the fuel economy" to people who have lost their homes in the bushfires. I know we have to keep fighting, and that all this has to change, but in some ways, the under-informed tone of meme-based activism makes me feel more hopeless than the actual issues at play.

Yes, I am worried at the level of understanding I see.

I see older, science-educated people turning to classic bargaining thinking out of the 1990s: "we can go back to 1991 but with electric cars! with carbon capture and storage! then we can all keep our cars and our hamburgers and not have to change our lives right now." When people have run the numbers, and either they don't work, or they would have worked great if we had started in 1980. Or a lot of people are still banging on about shutting down existing fission plants, when we need every joule of low-carbon energy. The concrete and steel we put into those is already poured, for good or bad those emissions are emitted.

This has been in books in every big-city bookstore, and on websites and web communities and newspaper columns, but not everyone has been reading them And if people don't yet understand how much they will have to change, how can we start to have the conversations about what form those changes should take?

viva · 19-01-20 23:39:46

I'm afraid the golden age of rationality, proof, expertise and conversations may be on hold for the next few generations

#1 01-01-20 15:36:29

Fires in Australia

#2 02-01-20 03:21:51

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#3 02-01-20 04:25:47

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#4 02-01-20 06:34:44

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