too much pressure on men when it comes to sex?

viva · 01-05-19 01:53:14

Hi guys, I was poking around reddit on my commute to work this morning, and this interesting conversation came up about the sexual pressures experienced by men... and then I opened up my facebook, and a therapeutic organisation I follow - The Gottman Institute - posted about the pressure men feel to "be it all". So my brains all heated and I'm a bit keen for a chat!

It was mostly some of the comments in the reddit discussion that really tugged my heartstrings and got me thinking. Comments like

"Yeah sometimes it's sooo hard to turn down a girl because you know she's gonna start asking why you don't wanna do anything, feel super bad and maybe even cry. And then it gets harder especially because then you are also expected to be the understanding dude that makes her feel better and gives her chocolate; but in reality you were the one that needed to be understood."

"there's also a lot of pressure for men (at least in hetero relationships) to be the dominant partners during sex. They're expected to be aggressive (which often includes initiating), confident, powerful. And this dynamic screws over men in a lot of ways, including:
-Making men feel unwanted because they're mostly the only ones initiating.
-Making men feel less desirable when they aren't feeling confident.
-Making men feel stupid and question themselves when they want their partner to take charge once in a while."

"feelings of inadequacy will always be around for us guys. Not once have I ever and I mean ever criticised any current girlfriend for her performance, yet I loose an erection midway or cum too early and I beat myself up over it in my head. Society has placed these stupid thoughts into our heads that we must be perfect lovers or get out"

I think especially the first quote struck me cause if I felt tired and didn't want to have sex, and then I was expected to comfort my disappointed and critical boyfriend who was pressuring me for it, that would not be okay with me.

The third quote struck me too because I have never felt criticised in any way by my partners, in fact I feel celebrated, sexy-without-trying, desirable. I always boost my partner sexually and I've always been with guys whose bodies I genuinely love, but nonetheless I feel that I end up criticising them a lot. The methods and the tone vary... like I have learned to be kinder and to take more responsibility and also learned to be more accepting. But it does feel like in bed, I am so difficult to satisfy, and men are so easy.

To get my orgasms, it's about skill and practice and dedication, his attitude has to be positive, present, romantic, intimate - or else I feel disconnected... so it takes emotional prescence and physical skill. And stamina! The way I want to be fingered and the amount of time it can take can be physically challenging. I want to get better at coming from oral but like, don't tongues get tired? It can take a long time but I don't want it to feel mechanical either...

Whereas to get his orgasm... I feel confident that I can make it happen in many different ways. So I can be creative, and erotic, and draw it out, and then finish him when I'm good and ready. And if I'm not into doing that, I can just lay back and enjoy him enjoying himself, knowing that he will come or not come when he's ready. I have such strong fantasies about being able to come like that, no need to manipulate my clit or have it be just the right spot for penetration.. just to be able to fuck until I come. In so many of the porn stories I read the girls come over and over just from sex. Like often just from the delerious pleasure of that first penetration. Like I love that feeling so much but no way I'm gonna come from it! But it sounds sooooo good and it makes sense that the male writers of this porn fantasise about that!

But yeah just these things on my mind today. Men, how do you reconcile the sexual pressures placed on you by society? And fellow contributors/female members, I welcome your thoughts too... have you ever felt frustrated by your male partner's limitations or about communicating your own sexual needs without hurting his feelings? How do you navigate that?

Last edited by viva (01-05-19 01:55:12)

ThatIndividual · 03-05-19 05:02:52

I like to think I leave society’s expectations outside my house. Life’s pretty hard on it’s own for me. Worst thing I could do is carry around everyone else’s expectations. I don’t have the relationship experiences to speak to this directly. But I think of relationships as being between the people in them. Forget whatever you’ve heard society tells you that you must do for your partner and how and so on. Talk. The only person that needs to be pleased is there with you.

viva · 03-05-19 07:38:45

That's awesome ThatIndv, thanks for sharing <3

I agree that talking is the best way to overcome absolutely any issues in relationship! Unfortunately it's not always that easy. There are so many of these pressures and expectations to break down, and some of them can be embarrassing or hard to express or just confusing! Like it can be hard to say exactly what you need to your lover, especially if you don't know precisely yourself! or maybe if you give to many directions, their creativity could be stifled?

perfectlysexy · 08-05-19 20:47:23

Hi Viva,

I agree that this is an important topic to explore. I may think differently after giving the this more thought. Off the top of my head I would add the following questions:

Does this differ by country? In the US, my experience is that a lot of people have fairly significant self-esteem issues. With regard to pressures for men and women this leads to a lot of internal criticism and doubt. "My partner never initiates sex therefore he/she must not be attracted to me." "My partner always seems to want sex so he/she must only be interested in me for that." "If I don't provide the best sexual experience for my partner then I'm a bad partner." And on and on. I'm not saying this doesn't exist in other countries, just that I haven't had enough experience talking to people outside of the US.

Are these issues symptomatic of deeper problems? Like maybe the dominant idea that a person's sexuality should be only explored with 1 other person is a possible culprit? Are relationships structured in other ways that increases pressure on everyone?

I was just talking to a friend the other day about how much better the world could be if more people were having more good sex. The irony is that neither she nor I have particularly active sex lives at the moment. It's almost like the pressures of the expectations around exploring sexuality are themselves a pressure on sexuality.

"Like it can be hard to say exactly what you need to your lover, especially if you don't know precisely yourself! or maybe if you give to many directions, their creativity could be stifled?"

How would any of us know what we want until we explore? Just because you liked X with one partner, you might like Y with a different partner. Or what if what we want changes or evolves over time?

A concern I've heard from people (more women than men to be honest) is that their partners don't explore sex with them. They can tell them what to do, but then they echo Viva, it becomes mechanical. Where is society's push that sex can be something fun to explore with someone (or someones)? Where is space being held open for creativity and sensuality and inspiration? In my experience, inspiration is one of the best things someone can bring into a sexual interaction. Sexspiration? It's really great. And that can be a difficult place to uncover when people have so many things they "think" sex should be, rather than creating a space for sex to be what it wants to be.

Molly_f · 09-05-19 07:23:28

I can understand men's experiences with sexual pressure being frustrating and emasculating, not only due to the hyper sexual tones in our culture encouraging men to be fuck machines, but also due to the fact that the majority (I think) of women enjoy being submissive rather than dominant, enjoy giving up control and enjoy the dynamic of being desired and pursued. I can imagine it leaving men feeling inadequate and unattractive. While I do sympathize with that feeling, I obviously cannot speak to it. I do think it's a complicated issue that not only hinges on masc/dom and femme/sub categories and patterns and how limiting they can be, but also overlaps with the current conversation about consent and coercion. There is a double standard when it comes to coercion I think in that when women are turned down for sex and react with disappointment, frustration, anger etc or continue to ask for sex after receiving a clear no, it's not viewed with the same severity as when a man behaves the same way. While I think there is absolutely an argument for the idea that they are not the same thing and do not have the same consequences, simply due to the overarching power imbalance between men and women, I think that it doesn't mean it's not insensitive at best or even abusive. To expect a man to always desire sex and view him in a negative light when he does not is pretty dehumanizing.

In regards to communication in bed about my needs and desires, I definitely relate to viva when she talks about her orgasm being so difficult to achieve, while his so simple. I have never felt unable to satisfy a man and usually can very easily do so, but have experienced endless frustration with male sexual partners over the years to the point where I no longer have any desire to have casual sex with them. There just isn't enough time to teach someone how to please me properly in the timeframe in which most hookups occur. Maybe I was hitting up the wrong demographic.... boys that don't own bed frames, drink beer more often than eating a vegetable, probably don't wash their hands as much as they should and have never dusted a surface in their life are likely not my best bet for having an orgasm. But they're just so pretty and fun! In any case, with my long term male partners I have had much more success because they are willing to take the time to learn the techniques and rhythms necessary to make me come. I still experience frustration though because I tend to date men with lower libidos than me and just generally less interest in sex than me both in having it, experimenting with it, talking about it... I could makeout and fool around for hours and try new things endlessly, there is so much room for creativity in sex. Unfortunately my boyfriends tend to be more conservative and straightforward about sex than I would like. I just try to remain patient and communicative in what I want and what I need. Variation and compromise are important, sometimes my needs are prioritized, sometimes his. Sometimes we can find that wonderful middle ground when everyone feels horny and sexy and untethered by time, work, stress etc and can just fuck for as long as we please.

Last edited by Molly_f (09-05-19 07:25:00)

perfectlysexy · 09-05-19 07:45:37

boys that don't own bed frames, drink beer more often than eating a vegetable, probably don't wash their hands as much as they should and have never dusted a surface in their life are likely not my best bet for having an orgasm.

This strikes me as an astute observation.

There is a double standard when it comes to coercion I think in that when women are turned down for sex and react with disappointment, frustration, anger etc or continue to ask for sex after receiving a clear no, it's not viewed with the same severity as when a man behaves the same way.

I agree and I want to dig deeper into this a bit. I actually think that people sharing their feelings is probably for the best. It's a question of how people act that can become problematic.

Person A wants to have sex with Person B. Person B says they are not feeling it. Person A is likely to feel disappointed. That is okay, and can be acknowledged and accepted. Reacting with anger would suggest to me that their is something problematic in the relationship dynamic. Where is the anger coming from? And of course Person A continuing to push for sex is a big warning sign, male or female.

Having sex with someone you like is fun, and more, so it's understandable to have feelings when it isn't happening when you want. But those feelings are no excuse for poor actions, nor should those feelings be used for coercion. "I should just have sex with her/him so she/he doesn't feel disappointed/upset/angry/rejected."

viva · 10-05-19 01:15:18

Ahhh I'm so grateful for these thoughtful contributions to this discussion. Honestly Molly, I'm ... the feeling of reading that you experience something similar to me when it comes to the orgasm gap is a big deal. Even though I know this is common, I still feel shame when I post about it. As much as I desperately want to be having this conversation out in the open, I feel that it exposes me and my lovers and my partners in a really real way. I feel like the response is usually critical of my partners - why isn't he more enthusiastic? Why isn't he more resiliant? There's an idea that a man should be endlessly voracious for a woman's orgasm, willing to lick and rub for hours with no guarentee of orgasm in addition to reassuring her often, in varied and creative ways, that he can't ever, ever, ever get enough of her. If I was expected to do that I would short circuit.

The shame is in the feeling like I'm gonna be told, well, you're unlucky, you haven't had good lovers. But I didn't even realise until my current partner, in my 30's, that I hadn't even given men a chance to enjoy me! I couldn't relax into anything except penetration or me giving him oral. I couldn't really handle the attention I dreamed of someone wanting to lavish on my body. That was part of my rape and kink fantasies too - I wanted someone to need me and desire me so much they literally overpowered me and my boundaries and removed my ability to resist.

Looking back I think every man I slept with would have loved to eat me out, or make out with me for hours (the key to getting that voracious foreplay, I think, is just delaying penetration even if you really want it), or gently rub my clit and finger me while we both observe my body for those telltale signs of orgasm.... but I didn't let them... and that dominant narrative of sexuality gave me this double edged - it's my fault cause I'm not beautiful or special enough to be wanted like that - or it's their fault for being poor lovers. Nothing in society, including all the literature I read, helped me understand that a woman has to be able to relax and accept attention for a man to feel comfortable giving it.

smoothed · 10-05-19 01:47:32

Wonderful, revealing, nuanced discussion going on here.

As a man, I apparently take much longer to orgasm via penetrative sex than most men. I do go at it for more than half an hour at times, thrusting all the while, before I come. And I come pretty much exclusively through penetration.

This creates very interesting scenarios. With partners who love penetrative sex, my long sex time allows for them to come to orgasm fully, even if I'm still learning their rhythms and preferences. With partners who don't quite like it, it can become doubly frustrating for both of us.

I think there's pressure on both men and women to come, and how a session of sex is assessed based on the level and quality of orgasm. Thing is, over time, we've evolved somehow to prioritise a man's pleasure over a woman, as the end of a man's orgasm is taken to be the end of sex.

Last edited by smoothed (11-05-19 02:08:17)

Urkles · 10-05-19 18:41:40

Coming from a mans point of view one of the things I don't see clearly stated here, and can be very intimidating for a man, especially when having sex with a new partner, is the pressure put on a mans penis size.

Everything is about bigger, just look at the images most porn projects, women using large dildos beyond what 90% of men have, men with large very large penis, and guys that are, as Molly put it, "fuck machines". Just watch Chaturbate for proof, you don't see many guys with a normal 6" penis! The pressure this creates for many men is that if you are worth having sex with you must have a large penis, and that puts incredible pressure on us normal guys.

I believe, at least in my experience with my partner, the good news is that many women are more interested in romance, long foreplay and make out sessions, feeling wanted and seen by their partner, the ability of the man to focus on their needs, and the penis size is not the biggest factor.

Just saying, society can really fuck with a man's head when it comes to this!!

privignus · 11-05-19 14:29:39

I think that everyone starts out with lots of myths about sex, because most people learn from romantic stories (on screen or in words), and because everyone lies about sex. I forget who observed that sex is a social behaviour that most people perform in private, so people's need to feel normal runs into a brick wall of needing to rely on untrustworthy narrators, not observation and copying, to learn what that is! Thus we get all the contradictory mess around virginity, or the 'right' time to go to bed with a BF or GF, or how fast guys should ejaculate (not too fast, not too slow ...), or who should proposition who and whether good girls say yes ... And don't forget drug companies that want to medicalize everything!

I have had ladyfriends who felt like failures when I didn't come quickly enough, and had a hard time hearing that sometimes it can take a few tries to get comfortable with a new partner. And like I said, I don't understand at all the people who assume ejaculation is the same as orgasm in guys! That does not match my experience at all.

And there are the shrill voices in the media insisting that you should look for partners in common activities, and the equally shrill voices insisting that only a wicked person would ask someone from their company or a hobby group for a date, the women who want men to take the initiative and the women who are very tired of finding that yet another acquaintance just wants to get into their pants ... a lot of people want one solution for everyone and can't see that their solution will worsen other people's problems.

Aside from penis size (which seems to be mostly a male worry?) video porn makes some men anxious about not being able to keep pounding away as long as the cuts make porn stars seem to, and others are worried about ejaculating too soon.

smoothed wrote:

I think there's pressure on both men and women to come, and how a session of sex is assessed based on the level and quality of orgasm. Thing is, over time, we've evolved somehow to prioritise a man's pleasure over a woman, as the end of a man's orgasm is taken to be the end of sex.

I never met that one in the wild at all, just in the media! Guys do have a longer refractory period after ejaculating, and often get sleepy after ejaculating, but you can also cuddle and spoon a bit and maybe help with your hands and mouth. I wish I could find the Greta Christina essay about how one of her phases mostly having sex with women changed how she thought about sex with boyfriends (I think she and her wife are mostly monogamous these days, she dropped off the Internet a few years ago though).

privignus · 11-05-19 14:45:46

Also, the expectation that guys are the ones who proposition convinces a lot of US/CDN/UK men that if they can't find a partner, that is a personal failure. When really building and maintaining any kind of close relationship in a rich country today is hard, apps can work for some people (whether a Scuba diving meetup or a Tinder hookup) but they are not right at all for other kinds of people.

viva · 13-05-19 01:09:47

So many fascinating observations here. I'm really grateful for everyone speaking up about things which can be difficult to talk about.

Smoothed, I once knew a guy who took a long time to cum as well. That was challenging for me, as a woman - I felt inadequate, and alarmed when my usual techniques didn't "get him there" before I grew tired. I was young and he was in love with someone else, so I sort of was resigned to the fact that I was just... kind of... 2nd best? Now I realise how inaccurate and self-centred my feelings were, and actually downright sex negative. His sexuality was his, and worth celebrating, not a sign of my own inadequacy!

Have you ever had someone get you off with oral? I really wanted to accomplish that with my long-lasting lover but I don't think I ever quite succeeded.... though it was fun trying

Ejaculation not being the same as orgasm - this really boggles my mind, haha. No matter how many times I hear guys say it I still associate ejaculation with orgasm! I am always surprised to hear that when my boyfriend is not with me, he rarely ejaculates when he orgasms from wanking. He chooses not to. I know it's just because I don't understand it but it seems sad and concerning to me! I associate men ejaculating with happiness and good health.

Dick size is a funny thing. What do you guys think about, like, matching sizes? There's a whole thing in the Kama Sutra - "The Kama Sutra acknowledges and accepts that there are just as many shapes and sizes of vaginas as there are of penises, both in length and girth. "

If there's a hangup for men about being "big", I reckon there's one for girls about being "tight". It's a weird society where the ideal is a huge cock and a tiny vagina. It took a lot of explaining from my boyfriend for me to stop wishing my vagina was "super tight" and to start celebrating the fact that it was the size he wanted it to be. He explained that he'd been with girls whose vaginas were smaller than mine, and it didn't make for comfortable sex. Like too tight, and he would come too fast, or not be able to really let go and just enjoy without bottoming out and hurting her. But like, being told your vagina is anything but "small and tight" is weird to hear and made me feel really insecure, even when he was super excited about the fit and happy with me.

The word he used was open - "I love your pussy, you're so open to me" - and at first I was upset because I thought I needed to hear how tight it was and he was just politely saying "you're loose and I can't feel anything." but once we talked it out it really made me think. There are definitely times when my vagina is tight - like, too tight to fuck. That's mainly when I'm not wanting sex. It doesn't make sense that a pussy that's not wanting sex would feel the best for a guy unless maybe they're size-mismatched.

Anyway I love my boyfriend and I love having sex with him, but it doesn't make me come. when I use my toy to come from penetration, I only use the first like, 4 inches. If that. And fingers can do it too. and if you've seen my videos you know I can do it with anything - a pen, a stick, a handful of paintbrushes - girth doesn't matter either. It's all about that spot! So I've definitely fantasised about a guy with a super hard, 6inch cock that just hits that perfect spot when he thrusts because... omg if I could have that spot touched during sex.. that would rock my world. I don't know if I'm an open-relationship kind of girl anymore but if I ever am again that's the kind of side boy I'd be looking for!

also this:

Urkles wrote:

the good news is that many women are more interested in romance, long foreplay and make out sessions, feeling wanted and seen by their partner

Amen.

smoothed · 13-05-19 03:26:39

viva wrote:

Have you ever had someone get you off with oral? I really wanted to accomplish that with my long-lasting lover but I don't think I ever quite succeeded.... though it was fun trying

Gosh, no, I've not. And not from a handjob either. I really like the start of a blow job, or a blow job as part of foreplay, but after a while, it doesn't quite work for me. The temperature of the mouth is different from that of a vagina, and the sensation is so so different... so maybe I have to meet a partner who is willing to try it out and experiment with me! There's more than one way to peel a banana...

Molly_f · 16-05-19 02:35:10

viva wrote:

Looking back I think every man I slept with would have loved to eat me out, or make out with me for hours (the key to getting that voracious foreplay, I think, is just delaying penetration even if you really want it), or gently rub my clit and finger me while we both observe my body for those telltale signs of orgasm.... but I didn't let them... and that dominant narrative of sexuality gave me this double edged - it's my fault cause I'm not beautiful or special enough to be wanted like that - or it's their fault for being poor lovers. Nothing in society, including all the literature I read, helped me understand that a woman has to be able to relax and accept attention for a man to feel comfortable giving it.

Really great point.... I think part of my hesitance in relaxing and accepting that variety and amount of attention has been my fear of them not wanting to give it. Leaving me feeling silly and rejected and also angry. To be honest these fears have been realised before when I have been more vocal about my wants and needs, but as I got older I managed my reaction and examined why whichever particular sexual partner was unable to full fill them. It almost always was not about me. Maybe they were genuinely feeling inadequate about their abilities, maybe they genuinely were disinterested in making me cum. But that's not my fault, that's on them. Growing older has made me more discerning in choosing partners that will genuinely care about my pleasure, which in turn makes me a much better partner because I care even more about theirs. Now that I have those partners that care, I need to relax and let myself enjoy the attention. My boyfriend and I had a really good conversation the other day about oral sex. I am always very ready to give it and receive it, but have found that the men I've been with have never reciprocated as much as I would like. We talked, I asked him if he enjoyed giving it, he said yes depending on how much the person receiving it enjoys it. Really it boiled down to he was not sure if I liked it or not. Ever since that conversation he's been giving oral much more frequently and I feel comfortable and confident enough to lay back and enjoy it. I think often times women just need that reassurance that you want to be touching them, licking them, kissing them and that it's not just about penetrative sex.

Penis size! Vagina size! Such fraught subjects!!!!! I too used to be very self conscious about the size of my vagina. I'm a tall person, I assume my vagina is proportional to my height, so if you're used to tiny girls with tiny pussies, well mine would seem cavernous!!!! Really though it's not as simple as that. It really helped me when I read about how the vaginal muscles react to pleasure, the more turned on and relaxed you are, the more the walls of your vagina will expand. Your cervix too ascends and descends depending on your menstrual cycle, and becomes more or less sensitive, harder or softer. A tight pussy is not the benchmark for great sex, nor is a huge cock.

#1 01-05-19 01:53:14

too much pressure on men when it comes to sex?

#2 03-05-19 05:02:52

Re: too much pressure on men when it comes to sex?

#3 03-05-19 07:38:45

Re: too much pressure on men when it comes to sex?

#4 08-05-19 20:47:23

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#5 09-05-19 07:23:28

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#6 09-05-19 07:45:37

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#7 10-05-19 01:15:18

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#8 10-05-19 01:47:32

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#9 10-05-19 18:41:40

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#10 11-05-19 14:29:39

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#11 11-05-19 14:45:46

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#12 13-05-19 01:09:47

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#13 13-05-19 03:26:39

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#14 16-05-19 02:35:10

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