orgasm frustration vent

viva · 17-02-18 13:58:38

warning, real talk, sex and relationships.

I broke down in bed this morning, after starting to get sensual with my boyfriend. I wanted to have sex but just couldnt continue. Why?
Because I was too turned on, and frustrated with it, so I didnt want to continue getting aroused by sex but I also didn't want to go through the whole process of giving me an orgasm.

I realised I feel like my orgasm is disconnected from sex, for me. And I also realised that I've pretty much always felt this way, even though I don't want to admit it. My orgasm has always been a challenge for me, mentally, emotionally, physically.

I'm so happy and comfortable with intercourse and male orgasm and playing with him, but I really have trouble with sex when it's focused on my orgasm. I love coming, and I need it, a lot, especially if I'm having regular sex. but I find the process to get me to come is more of a chore and a burden to me than the blissful experiences of making out, penetrative sex, or teasing a man.... I just wish so much my orgasm could be a natural part of connective, emotional sex, and not something that sort of has to be accomplished separately.

guys, I have a lot of shame about this but I'm getting to the point where I can't not talk about it. Does anyone get what I mean? Can anyone talk to me about this? I feel like I've just accepted that my orgasm is a satellite of sex and not the main planet, my whole life. And I've been fine with that, but in this relationship I'm in, I just want better than that, for both of us. I want to bring more of myself but I don't know how.

I can only come in pretty specific ways, I always need clitoral stimulation, and it's pretty specific and I have to do it myself (only one time was a man able to get me off without me touching). He can make me come pretty fast and beautifully with his fingers but I still have to rub my clit and it feels "samey" to always return to this position when I need to come. I can have multiples and they are so so amazing for me in so many ways, I wish I could have these frequently. But I need to use my dildo and it's in a very specific way, hard and fast on a very specific spot. When my partner tries to do it he often does good for awhile but the tiniest shift in placement and I can get hurt. Usually I end up taking over cause I'm so needy at a certain point, I HAVE to come and I can't think about anything else or take anymore "trying". I don't get off with oral and I've never had an orgasm from sex without touching my clit...

Because I have to work so hard to get my orgasm I feel like I can't relax and enjoy the process. Basically I feel like I have to choose between relaxing, feeling, connecting - and getting an orgasm.

I spoke to a girlfriend today about it and she said she has a similar experience and that it's frustrating, but she doesnt seem to mind as much whether or not she comes, so she's more okay with just less sex in general. But my partner and I love to have easy, uncomplicated sex once, twice a day sometimes and it's too stimulating for me, without orgasms to release the arousal. so I have to come but I really see it as a chore ;________;

my partner would love to spend time on my body but I dissuade him more and more because .... I'm just getting a bigger and bigger block against my orgasm feeling like hard work. even if he wants to lavish me with attention and sensuality I can't just lean back and enjoy. sometimes things hurt, and also too much stimulation without being able to get me off means my body just gets overheated and frustrated... and that's not enjoyable!! he feels a bit discouraged... and so do I....

I don't know what I'm looking for here. Maybe just to rant, maybe seeking advice... I don't know. Women who've had this kind of difficulty and overcome it? anyone who can just commiserate? different perspectives that could help? someone in relationship who understands the dynamic I'm talking about and maybe has some wisdom? what am I missing here...

i don't know. i wish i could be like Lilley!! ugh. /rant

Monotreme · 17-02-18 20:37:32

I think each relationship is sui generis and the solution has to be worked out, point by point, by the parties involved.

I wish I could say something to help, but I strongly suspect you've just helped yourself by articulating your feelings in such a moving and heartfelt way. Being intentional about our love relationships is the only way to create satisfying ones.

In direct answer to your questions, I can speak only for myself as a man. I don't get excited unless my partner is excited. So I rather enjoy the challenge of helping my partner to come. It doesn't matter to me HOW she does that: with a toy, with her fingers, with my mouth, with my fingers, or whatever. I just want to be there to see it and watch or participate, makes no difference to me. I get off on her pleasure even more than my own.

As we have gotten older, my partner and I have migrated to a place where we "take turns" getting ourselves off. It's just easier and satisfying for both of us. I usually want her to go first, and if I come before she does that's okay, but if I don't then I will come on my own after she's spent. We've talked about this and this is a solution that works for both of us at our age and at this stage in our relationship. The emotional connection inherent in good partnered sex always outranks any physical response.

And again, speaking for me personally, if my partner were to masturbate without me so that she has free rein to explore fantasies without the distraction of my presence, then I'm okay with that. I don't want to talk about it, but I'm perfectly fine with that. It would be hypocritical for me to feel otherwise, since I spend plenty of time on IFM doing the exact same thing. It's not a detriment to our relationship, but rather a nice benefit. "I got a peaceful, easy feeling / I know you won't let me down / Cuz I'm already standing on the ground."

If each of us stays grounded in our own pleasure, and then from time to time come together (literally) to explore our mutual pleasure, then that seems to be the best solution for us. As I said, everyone has to find their own place.

I hope that is responsive to you, Viva. I care for you so much and want you to be happy.

kypris · 18-02-18 00:04:52

You feel a bit splintered into many contradictory emotions at the moment and that somehow frustrates you. You miss the complete integration of your orgasmic lust into the entirety of your partner relationship. Your orgasm is like something out of the relationship, it runs parallel to it. To orgasm you need the undisturbed concentration on yourself which then brings you back to distance to your partner. Although then you feel in a beautiful love relationship with yourself but somehow excluded from the partner relationship which does not satisfy you properly. You then come in a Pat situation, you have the demand to orgasm but at the same time it’s too exhausting, even annoying and you leave it what you do not really want. You would like to live in a holistic love relationship with your partner, so to speak: all included and simply enjoy the whole pleasure together.
At the moment you are a bit at a loss with that inner conflict..

Howland · 18-02-18 01:05:00

So sorry you are feeling frustrated. I hope it helps to vent! Rather than offer advice I will simply give you: [*hug*]

ThatIndividual · 18-02-18 03:11:13

Well talking about it helps and I’d say necessary. Sometimes I can only work through things with a pen and notepad. Until I do that I’m just frustrated and going in circles.

Am I right to think that you can only orgasm to a very specific angle of penetration and clit stimulation? Like maybe a vibrator held there won’t necessarily hit your clit the right way?

Also is there any sort of dildo that tends to hit the spot more likely? Like have you tried glass dildos or the ones with spheres connected by a shaft?

So I’m going to bring up a thing I heard about years ago. It’s weird, but know that I only bring it up out of a serious desire to help. There’s actually some sort of electrode thing I heard about years ago. It could turn the orgasm right on for women iirc. I’ll google...

Here’s where it’s talked about, I think.
http://www.latimes.com/health/la-he-ors … story.html

Edit 3- it looks like the original thing never went anywhere for that doctor, but I’m seeing similar things that don’t require surgery on Amazon. They appear to work like a tens unit.

Edit 4-At this point, I think the internet/google isn't going to answer this problem for me. I would suggest you seek a sex therapist/professional. Someone who'll definitely know what I was searching for and be able to talk about it professionally and not in the sophomoric sense I found on the internet. Just to clarify - I don't think you need therapy, I just think sex on the internet is too sophomoric for me to find this device.

I'm going to overshare a little to share my own frustrating sex experiences with orgasming. I'm 34 and I've had sex 3 times. The first two were awful. My first two times were separated by 3 or 4 years, I think, and with two different women. My first time I could hardly keep erect let alone orgasm. We wound up giving up on me and trying to sleep. I think she slept, but I know I didn't. I just felt far too uncomfortable and outright frustrated. We wound up orgasming that morning. She eventually pulled out her vibrator. I orgasmed in her wearing another condom after masturbating myself near that point anyway.

Years later with the second woman I had sex with was similar to the first. I was able to make her orgasm, but she was clearly bored by the time i eventually got there.

It took until my third time. I forget why I suspected this, but I suspected the condoms I wore those first two times were too narrow for me to get/keep an erection. (Maybe I just needed an ego boost?) I also had known her for a longer period of time before hand - so I actually knew that sex was something I should at least be prepared to do. Wider condoms did 'the trick' for me - also the emotional connection I had established with her of course helped.

So like most people only have a "fight or flight" response in certain situations around people. For me, it's more like a flight response around all people and in all contexts. I've only ever found one thing (kava) that helped me overcome that anxiety...but I can't take it because it would probably kill me with the meds I take for my migraines. They both function as muscle relaxers.

Last edited by ThatIndividual (18-02-18 13:25:48)

viva · 19-02-18 05:12:17

Monotreme, thank you so much for your reply! If I could have tagged your username on my original post I would have. I knew you would have a response that made me feel good. Of course it doesn't solve my problem, but just feeling heard and validated makes me feel really good. I had a lot of anxiety after making this post so thank you for saying my words were moving and heartfelt.

It doesn't exactly fix my problem to articulate it but maybe it does. This last day since reaching out I feel more forgiveness towards myself and a bit of relief just from expressing these feelings out loud. I feel like I have a little less shame at least.

Monotreme wrote:

I think each relationship is sui generis and the solution has to be worked out, point by point, by the parties involved.

Of course this is true. I feel like sexuality is the heart and the voice, the place where the depths of our psyches and hearts are exposed and made vulnerable - for trauma, for healing, for transcendence. So much can happen here between two people. but I also know that when I bring myself, I also bring my resources... I need to keep flowing away from him to keep learning about myself, and then flow back to bring more of myself, more ideas, to multiply in that space. At 31 I'm beginning to learn that there's not a man on earth who could ever fix me or make me happy, if I haven't found paths to happiness on my own terms.

Monotreme wrote:

In direct answer to your questions, I can speak only for myself as a man. I don't get excited unless my partner is excited. So I rather enjoy the challenge of helping my partner to come.

Thank you for sharing and this is inspiring. Did you always feel this way, like emotionally confident/simple and clear in your desire for your partner's pleasure? Did you ever feel discouraged about helping a woman come, or that it felt difficult instead of fun? Thank you so much for transparently describing how this works in your relationship. I am so hungry to hear about what happens as love deepens and grows, but mostly the only people talking are young people who are in first flush of love, or breaking up, or hooking up. I don't know where to look to read about next steps, inspiring stories, or where to find the next level of role models for mature relationships. So hearing about yours really helps!

Monotreme wrote:

The emotional connection inherent in good partnered sex always outranks any physical response.

I feel like this articulates my frustration. I am feeling like my physical responses or inhibition thereof is getting in the way of my emotional connection.

Monotreme wrote:

I hope that is responsive to you, Viva. I care for you so much and want you to be happy.

Again thank you so much. I feel your care and it means heaps!

viva · 19-02-18 05:13:49

kypris wrote:

You feel ... inner conflict..

Honestly Kypris, just your rewording of my concern made me feel so heard! Everything you say is correct, that is precisely how I feel. Thank you for taking this time to show me you understand <3

viva · 19-02-18 05:17:07

Howland wrote:

So sorry you are feeling frustrated. I hope it helps to vent! Rather than offer advice I will simply give you: [*hug*]

Thank you Howland! It helps.

viva · 19-02-18 05:26:58

ThatIndividual wrote:

Am I right to think that you can only orgasm to a very specific angle of penetration and clit stimulation? Like maybe a vibrator held there won’t necessarily hit your clit the right way?

That's right. It's always clit stimulation, if I have perfect penetration in addition (with very hard, g-spot wood dildo) I can also have very amazing multiple orgasms. With a vibrator it has to be in the perfect spot and that spot moves as I get aroused so a partner has never been able to get me off holding the vibrator.

ThatIndividual wrote:

So I’m going to bring up a thing I heard about years ago. It’s weird, but know that I only bring it up out of a serious desire to help. There’s actually some sort of electrode thing I heard about years ago. It could turn the orgasm right on for women iirc. I’ll google...

I would love to wave a magic wand and fix this problem but I think it might be a bit like excercise? Like you can;t cut corners, you just really have to do the work? I just don't understand what the work could be... or if it's even possible for me to change the way I come...

ThatIndividual wrote:

I would suggest you seek a sex therapist/professional.

I really would love to have a therapist who would help me understand my orgasm and how to share it with others.

ThatIndividual wrote:

I'm going to overshare a little to share my own frustrating sex experiences with orgasming.

Thank you so so much for sharing. I wish we all could talk about sex more. It's so isolating and frustrating to imagine everyone having amazing, easy cool sex lives and only we are the ones who struggle with issues surrounding sexuality. But what's more true is almost no one I know has a simple perfect pure relationship with sexuality. I'm so tired of not talking about it or only being limited to an instagram version of sex where we only talk about the hot stuff and create this perfect veneer.

ThatIndividual wrote:

So like most people only have a "fight or flight" response in certain situations around people. For me, it's more like a flight response around all people and in all contexts.

I have a fight AND flight response to receiving pleasure

Monotreme · 19-02-18 15:48:03

viva wrote:

Did you always feel this way, like emotionally confident/simple and clear in your desire for your partner's pleasure? Did you ever feel discouraged about helping a woman come, or that it felt difficult instead of fun? Thank you so much for transparently describing how this works in your relationship. I am so hungry to hear about what happens as love deepens and grows, but mostly the only people talking are young people who are in first flush of love, or breaking up, or hooking up. I don't know where to look to read about next steps, inspiring stories, or where to find the next level of role models for mature relationships. So hearing about yours really helps!

I can honestly say I've never been bored while trying to seek a partner's orgasm. Tired, oh my yes, but it never felt difficult. More like solving a Rubik's Cube, something that I recognize as difficult and magical and which I may need to come back to again and again but with the confidence that with persistence, I will get it right.

In general — and I know this doesn't always apply — the more you have to fight for an orgasm the better it feels. At least for me, and I have seen the same response in partners.

My divorce allowed me the opportunity to be fearless and yet ethical. I dated a lot, and had a lot of sex when I was single. The only partner I had who was consistently turned on, and consistently turned me on, was a woman who had been married 5 times and who I strongly suspected of having borderline personality disorder. In the end, I realized that having a "perfect" sexual relationship was unattainable. I married a woman who I fell deeply, truly, madly in love with. The sex, we are still working on, but I'd rather be in love and have a "sex project" than have great sex and engage in a "love project", if you know what I mean.

_hyperballad_ · 20-02-18 00:40:34

I totally, TOTALLY get this Viva. I literally just turned 33 on Sunday & have only just relaxed enough to allow my partner to be the one who 100% *makes* my orgasm happen & be chill enough to not rage out while giving him very clear instructions.

That said. I could NOT do this thing, this learning Hyperballads quite complicated, very sensitive erogenous areas every time we're going for it. I would stab someone. It's a fucktonne of hard work. Because of many things, but a lot of them (for me) are mental. I used to think 'oh this is how my body is' but that's actually not true, it's how I think my body is. How I believe my body is & I have been working on breaking down that belief system for the last year. Recently I was shooting another folio for ISM & I got suuuuuuper turned on, masturbated on the floor on my bathroom with the biggest toy I own & BAM! outta nowhere nearly drowned a camera in ejaculate.

This shows me that if I keep exploring & keep doing things that turn me on SO much & keep practicing with my breath, being in the moment & experimenting with how I position my body, even denying myself an actual orgasm unless I wait for the orgasm to occur while bearing down then my body has an untapped capacity for pleasure. It was a delightful surprise to squirt & I managed to replicate it 2 more times that day!

I am in the same boat re very specific touch, although I have trained my body to move away from clitoris centred orgasms which for me is huge. Look at any of my early IFM's & I was ALL clitoris. I am approaching the point now where I reckon I'm on the cusp of being able to come from penetration alone. Which hasn't happened ever. I've had orgasms from sex but it was me on top grinding my clit on top of the guy & even that kind of orgasm is very rare for me.

Men in general have never been able to get me off with their hands, my husband is the only person who has ever consistently tried but like you I dissuaded him because it made me feel weird & like there was too much pressure on me to have an orgasm, so it wouldn't happen anyways. My orgasm felt like a burden & we fell into a routine where he came from sex & then we made me cum together. Don't get me wrong, I actually really like this but it can't be like that every time.

At the moment I have some different sexual goals happening: 1 is for Magnus to make me orgasm with his hands alone, he is actually looking into restraints cos I am very wriggly apparently, 2 is to be able to make myself ejaculate semi regularly, 3 is orgasms from penetration & 4 more butt stuff.

I feel that my way to these goals is through a combination of research, theory, practise & failure. I definitely feel like a huuuuuuge part of any sexual goal is mindfulness, but also letting go. It's really, really hard to break your attachment to the idea of orgasm but quixotically I have found it much easier to cum while accepting that I probably won't cum. Or setting aside my current actions if it feels like my pursuit of orgasm is becoming tense. It's actually a kind of mindful edging really.

Not sure if any of this is helpful, I hope it is, because I really relate to your feelings of frustration regarding this stuff. If you have a particular sexual response it can be so difficult to navigate in partnered sex. I've been with my husband for over 8 years & we're still learning new stuff. I know how it feels to be stuck & I definitely know how it feels to have to stop a sexual interaction that you want because it isn't what you need.

Big love & always happy to talk on these things with you <3

privignus · 20-02-18 23:46:54

viva, I think I have said before, but for me coming and that 'oh wow, that feels so soft, so good' feeling don't always happen in the same sexy fun time. And guys can get that 'overstimulated'/'that is nice but too much' feeling too!

ThatIndividual wrote:

I'm going to overshare a little to share my own frustrating sex experiences with orgasming. I'm 34 and I've had sex 3 times. The first two were awful. My first two times were separated by 3 or 4 years, I think, and with two different women. My first time I could hardly keep erect let alone orgasm. We wound up giving up on me and trying to sleep. I think she slept, but I know I didn't. I just felt far too uncomfortable and outright frustrated. We wound up orgasming that morning. She eventually pulled out her vibrator. I orgasmed in her wearing another condom after masturbating myself near that point anyway.
Years later with the second woman I had sex with was similar to the first. I was able to make her orgasm, but she was clearly bored by the time i eventually got there.
It took until my third time. I forget why I suspected this, but I suspected the condoms I wore those first two times were too narrow for me to get/keep an erection. (Maybe I just needed an ego boost?) I also had known her for a longer period of time before hand - so I actually knew that sex was something I should at least be prepared to do. Wider condoms did 'the trick' for me - also the emotional connection I had established with her of course helped.
So like most people only have a "fight or flight" response in certain situations around people. For me, it's more like a flight response around all people and in all contexts. I've only ever found one thing (kava) that helped me overcome that anxiety...but I can't take it because it would probably kill me with the meds I take for my migraines. They both function as muscle relaxers.

I think that there is a weird myth that orgasm is complicated and mysterious for women, but a healthy guy should be able to get erect instantly and come in a few minutes with any attractive woman. In my own life and that of a friend, I know that things are often more complicated! Trust sure helps. Maybe some of those Emily Nagoski accelerator/brakes ideas would be helpful? Or we guys need to open up to our male friends about experiences which were not great? IFM has some good tutorials on girl talk

The emotional things around "my partner cares about me, so they want me to orgasm, and I want to make them happy by orgasming, and now I an concentrating and nervous and it is difficult all of a sudden" are complicated!

viva · 24-02-18 04:34:33

Monotreme wrote:

I can honestly say I've never been bored while trying to seek a partner's orgasm. Tired, oh my yes, but it never felt difficult. More like solving a Rubik's Cube ... In general — and I know this doesn't always apply — the more you have to fight for an orgasm the better it feels. At least for me, and I have seen the same response in partners.

Awesome and inspiring. I wish I could treat myself like this!!

Monotreme wrote:

In the end, I realized that having a "perfect" sexual relationship was unattainable. I married a woman who I fell deeply, truly, madly in love with. The sex, we are still working on, but I'd rather be in love and have a "sex project" than have great sex and engage in a "love project", if you know what I mean.

This is also beautiful and really warms my heart. I feel like sex is a chess board, ever evolving, where we play out our emotional evolution... so, it will never be "finished", its not a thing to complete but rather an infinite shifting and expanding... but the love! you need it. It's the warm temperature in the room, the beautiful light shining through the window, the striking elegance of the pieces themselves. It's what makes you want to play. Thank you Monotreme!

viva · 24-02-18 04:48:36

Hyperballad, too many wonderful things here to quote!! First of all just thank you so so much for engaging with me, it means a lot especially considering how much you have cultivated your orgasm, I have always been so moved by the earnest and enthusiastic way you engage with your own body! and super inspired by the progress you've made. Hearing about it again, especially now, was a big deal for me. I felt my whole body loosen and relax, reading your words!

My partner and I decided to try to abstain for a little while while I was feeling such high anxiety around this, to allow me to cool down and unwind a little. we made it 4 days and it was so so good for us. when we finally did make love I allowed him to touch me and go down on me for much much longer than I have before. I don't think I could have been capable of orgasm like this, but he helped me let go of the focus on orgasm more than I ever have. In this session I ended up having two orgasms in between this foreplay and our eventual penetration, and then being so close during penetration that I asked us to stop so I could come again.

I almost always cry when I come, I am just full of emotions. The first two I cried so hard, with the release after all these day of holding tension. But the third one I couldn' stop laughing! my whole body, mind and central nervous system were completely reset by this experience. I learned I need to come til I laugh.

my partner and I learned that even my orgasm is not what's important. what I was craving was increased intimacy, time spent lingering over my body. it's also what I fear the most... it makes me so uncomfortable, when it's supposed to feel so good. There's a lot of childhood stuff relating to this for me... but I feel like speaking about it here has really helped me, and helped me allow my partner to at least try to go deeper in this aspect with me.

So hyperballad, was Magnus able to make you come with a toy? Or with his mouth? That must be such an incredible feeling, to experience orgasm without making it happen. I want this for myself soooo much!! I feel like I will enter a new level of sexual bliss, if I could let go enough to let that happen.

Also I want to squirt so bad.

viva · 24-02-18 04:58:48

privignus wrote:

I think that there is a weird myth that orgasm is complicated and mysterious for women, but a healthy guy should be able to get erect instantly and come in a few minutes with any attractive woman. In my own life and that of a friend, I know that things are often more complicated! Trust sure helps. Maybe some of those Emily Nagoski accelerator/brakes ideas would be helpful? Or we guys need to open up to our male friends about experiences which were not great? IFM has some good tutorials on girl talk

FUCK priv this is SO real!

Wow, we had so much work to do in my relationship, around the expectations I had for his desire. He should be always hard, always ready, always wanting it, and even practically overwhelming me with his need for my body. That's what masculine love looks like, right? I had a lot of weird ideas about men when I got into my relationship. My partner has told me how that pressure feels, how not all men are blindly erec and constantly desiring sex, and helped me make a much safer space for himself. the safer he felt the more desire comes through, as well, which makes me feel really good, because I know it means he feels good. trust helps!!

what's accelerator/brakes?

And yes guys need to open up, please, please open up. to me and to each other. we need to see men's hearts!

privignus wrote:

The emotional things around "my partner cares about me, so they want me to orgasm, and I want to make them happy by orgasming, and now I an concentrating and nervous and it is difficult all of a sudden" are complicated!

Spot on, thank you! no matter how much I want to get out of my head and avoid this feedback loop it happens evvvverryyy timmmmmeeeeeee

viva · 24-02-18 05:00:21

fuck, you guys, I love this thread.

Last edited by viva (24-02-18 05:00:37)

Monotreme · 24-02-18 16:40:35

viva wrote:

fuck, you guys, I love this thread.

You started it. It's really a good one, and I thank you for bringing your genuine self to the table in such an open way.

And as an aside, you've also demonstrated the importance of a comma between "fuck" and "you guys", without which this post would take on a completely different color.

I love you, Viva, as a human being and empathetic soul. Chatting with you makes my heart sing.

hartp02 · 26-02-18 11:18:49

To me: forget the must and enjoy the feeling!I know how it works sometimes with a partner-sometimes when seks not works you get some kind of dark cloud of gloominess over you and you both start frantically trying to make something of it after all.This is the wrong thing-we are not seks machines! Sometimes you feel tired or sick or you just feel tension from work and you think seks is the relief of pressure-it simply doesn't work! I think then go sleep and try tomorrow!
The sheer craving followed by the sheer must is a killer to me personally.
Again: your body and mind are one! Relax and enjoy and don't make a must of it to come!

Ivy_jean · 27-02-18 00:33:32

Oh Viva, I understand this so well!

Hyperballad managed to cover a lot of the things I would say in response to the OP, but I will add my two cents.

As you know, I've been in a relationship (give or take a few years in the middle) for 11 years with my (now) husband, and I have experienced SO many different sexual roadblocks as well as euphoric phases throughout this relationship. Yet of all the people I've ever slept with, he is the only one I have opened up to -completely- sexually, and the only one who has managed to make me come (other than through oral, which is easy for me) with his hands, and through penetration.

It's so interesting seeing the changes throughout our relationship - from when we first met and it was all lust, experimentation, passion and orgasms, to a part in my early 20's where I mentally I would seize up completely and couldn't orgasm without using my own hands (clitorally, and even then it wasn't easy) so I would want to avoid sex purely because I felt pressure to orgasm. I would often feel that frustration too!! It was SO irritating that he could finish so easily, and I would be left on the brink of satisfaction. This would also make him feel like he had failed me.

Now we're married and after the past 3-4 years of exploring my orgasm properly together, I come about 99% of the time when we have penetrative sex. The majority of those are mutually achieved too, and I no longer have to do it all myself - so to speak. In saying that, it has taken a lot of time, patience and perseverance to get to this stage. I had to learn to accept my body (as Hyperballad mentioned), communicate with my partner more (not just during sex either), and get out of my head a little bit - when I'm too focused mentally on orgasming, I just can't do it. We still have bad moments, off weeks etc. But for the most part, it's incredible.

I should also mention that a huge factor in my sexuality (and feelings of desire) is the communication and connection between us every single day. Little things accumulate throughout the day/week etc and these will have an impact on your physical sexual engagement. I highly recommend reading some things from Esther Perel - I find her incredibly spot on when it comes to desire and relationships.

Here's an article that I think ties in well with this discussion, and Esther Perel's TED talk:

"There are three primary ways to engage in a sexual experience:

Some people start with the arousal and then the desire follows. So, they engage in sex because they are aroused—they are turned on, excited, physiologically tickled.

Some people start with the desire and then the arousal follows. So they have the thought, the idea, wish. They don’t yet have the feeling, but they like the thought of it and will do what it takes to get themselves turned on and will then engage.

Others start with willingness and openness, but they have neither desire nor arousal. This willingness is rarely portrayed in Hollywood. It’s the woman who is really tired and has had a full day, but she stays open to the idea of sex, her energy grows, and then she’s into it, after having no interest five minutes ago. This model comes out of the research of the psychiatrist Rosemary Basson, M.D., and also gained traction in Emily Nagoski’s book, Come As You Are. If more people could embrace this model—with desire and arousal following sex, not preceding—it would solve a lot of the struggle that many women have with desire."

https://goop.com/wellness/what-women-ne … ut-desire/
https://www.ted.com/talks/esther_perel_ … transcript

We are complex!! That's ok!! Thank you for sharing <3 <3

_hyperballad_ · 28-02-18 03:43:49

Viva <3 yes, on occasion Magnus makes me come with his hands/mouth/toy etc. We're working on making that a much more frequent occurrence though. Since I've made the decision that I don't want to cum from tension or any sort of frantic desperation I am able to sink much further into pleasure & think less, which is always helpful in achieving very good sex!

Glad to hear you guys took a step back & you were able to navigate this frustration & fear together <3 The action of all attention on YOU sexually can be terrifying. We're socialised from day dot to be givers & it takes a lot of work to undo the programming. Cheering from my desk that you're unpacking this & gettin' to the good stuff

You know, it feels like a weird little betrayal to woman-kind to admit this, but the collaborative orgasms Magnus & I have (I'm in charge of the clit & he's in charge of everything else) are hands down THE best orgasms of my life. I leave my body & consciousness, I literally go somewhere else. I don't think I'm usually a hugely loud orgasm person but I just completely lose myself & sometimes I can hear my voice ricocheting off the walls, it's intense! It's been difficult to not just want to stick to this kind of partnered orgasm, like it's awesome why can't I just keep cumming like this... But I think the longevity of sexual chemistry is exploration & expansion. I have had to break my attachment to routine & comfort, it has a habit of becoming stale & that's the last thing I want to feel about sex with Magnus.

Another thing I didn't mention at all in my previous post is that I am very, very in tune with my cycle now that I am free of hormonal contraceptives. We don't tend to associate the pill or nuvaring etc with orgasm itself, more with mood & libido etc but I'd be interested to know if you feel this affects you as well (you too Ivy_Jean) ?

I find that my desire, orgasm, sexual response, ability to orgasm in multiples, actual sensation on the inside of my vagina changes SO much throughout my cycle. It's insane. Some days I quite literally have to bring a spare pair of knickers to swap over. Incidentally these days are the days I would shoot for IFM & actually ISM too, it's when I take nude selfies & actually post them on my socials. It's like every aspect of me is amplified & I feel so sexy & sexual I can't not express it.

This is a fucking excellent thread btw. I like that we can all get vulnerable & into the nitty gritty in such an open way.

I really do hope that you are able to keep on peeling back that layers of your sexual experiences Viva, you will find amazing things as the masks, expectations, defenses & everything else in between slip away. There very well maybe traumas to uncover, I know that for me personally this has been true. You are excellent though & it sounds like you have an excellent partner too. Keep at it, I reckon our sexual journeys pretty much go forevah

viva · 03-03-18 12:31:04

ahh you guys are awesome. I love this conversation...

yes for sure my cycle changes everything! I don't mess around with hormonal birth control - I went on the pill once when I was 23, and it made me feel too crazy. but yes, I love when I'm ovulating and I'm constantly so wet I soak through my undies and often feel drops sort of gushing down my thighs. i's amazing, I never stop being facinated by this. Sometimes it comes with easy orgasms, sometimes not!

I love sensuality when I'm actually bleeding. I love slow clitoral orgasms, gentle touching, and giving head, really slowly, but I don't like penetration until around the 2nd or 3rd day. and then when I'm ready for that, it's so nice for us because it's really uneventful sex, but he can come inside which we both love so much...

when I'm PMSing it's all over the place. one minute I can be so horny and needy and the next he smells totally unbearable and I need to be 500 feet away. I live by my cycle and I'm so happy to have a partner who supports me in that, facilitating me to relax completely and retreat completely from the world when I'm bleeding. We have a period tracker app - Clue - and it makes me feel so seen for him to know my cycle and even help me plan our lives around it.

Ivy, thank you soooo much for your input as well. I love hearing that you come from penetration, it just sounds so awesome and beautiful and I'm happy you have that! I love your relationship <3 I aspire to this and to that great olympic sexual experience, simultaneous orgasms. it's great to hear about the progression that led you to your current status quo.

The Esther Perel stuff is so interesting, I'll have to listen to that talk. I shared the concept with my partner. It's really novel (and obvious in retrospect) to separate the "desire" (intellectual idea of wanting sex) from "arousal" (the physical experience). Gives us a lot to think about. I often want "desire" things - roleplay, dirty talk, positions, poses, clothes, toys, etc - and while he is interested in providing these for me, he's more fully "arousal" most of the time. An instinctual, physical kind of approaching, wanting, wanting to touch, to be inside. It's interesting.

Lately though it's changed a lot. He could always finger me really good but lately we've had a lot more slow stroking all over my body, more kissing, more romantic positions and finally I've completely communicated where exactly my g-spot is. Since then he's gotten so good at getting me off, fast and hard, while I rub my clit, that I've been having a steady, easy 3 orgasms per session. Coming until I laugh <3 Sometimes he's not coming at all! It's making me so happy and I worried he would be sad to have less orgasms but he's saying he actually doesn't love the feeling of coming when I don't and would prefer to keep prioritising my orgasm, and him just coming when it feels right.

So confidences are really up and pressure is down and I'm getting so many orgasms... which makes my body feel like summer inside, all the time. Drooley-smiley emoji <3

I want to know more about tension orgasms and relaxation orgasms now...

privignus · 03-03-18 22:38:10

viva wrote:

privignus wrote:
I think that there is a weird myth that orgasm is complicated and mysterious for women, but a healthy guy should be able to get erect instantly and come in a few minutes with any attractive woman. In my own life and that of a friend, I know that things are often more complicated! Trust sure helps. Maybe some of those Emily Nagoski accelerator/brakes ideas would be helpful? Or we guys need to open up to our male friends about experiences which were not great? IFM has some good tutorials on girl talk
FUCK priv this is SO real!
Wow, we had so much work to do in my relationship, around the expectations I had for his desire. He should be always hard, always ready, always wanting it, and even practically overwhelming me with his need for my body. That's what masculine love looks like, right? I had a lot of weird ideas about men when I got into my relationship. My partner has told me how that pressure feels, how not all men are blindly erec and constantly desiring sex, and helped me make a much safer space for himself. the safer he felt the more desire comes through, as well, which makes me feel really good, because I know it means he feels good. trust helps!!
what's accelerator/brakes?
And yes guys need to open up, please, please open up. to me and to each other. we need to see men's hearts!

Thanks viva!

I don't understand the accelerator/brakes model fully, but from hearing a few interviews with Emily "Come as You Are" Nagowski, it is about factors which increase and decrease sexual arousal. Often people talk about pushing the accelerator- lengerie, new techniques or toys, filthy hot videos from wonderful Australians- but this model predicts that this may not help if one of you is very tired from looking after sick parents, and the other is scared about how they will pay the rent next month and resentful about a fight six months ago.

Ivy_Jean talks about this better than I can!

Feeling safe is so important! And it makes it easier to ask for things that you want too.

viva wrote:

privignus wrote:
The emotional things around "my partner cares about me, so they want me to orgasm, and I want to make them happy by orgasming, and now I an concentrating and nervous and it is difficult all of a sudden" are complicated!
Spot on, thank you! no matter how much I want to get out of my head and avoid this feedback loop it happens evvvverryyy timmmmmeeeeeee

Doing more physical things, like exercise or crafts, helps for me sometimes ... but then if you want to get better at a sport, you think about what you are doing, and that puts me outside my body again

privignus · 03-03-18 23:04:14

Monotreme wrote:

I love you, Viva, as a human being and empathetic soul. Chatting with you makes my heart sing.

Yes, I think that the discussions on this forum are really special! There are many places on the Internet when men and women talking about sexuality breaks down into a gender war, with creepy pick-up artists talking about red pills or feminist theorists trying to explain that most people's sex lives are wicked and unjust and they and their partners just don't know it yet. And that is sad, because any one of us just has one piece of the puzzle, and we need to hear from other people to learn what other parts are shaped like

For me I have some questions which I expect I won't be able to answer until I find a long-term partner. I have never been clever about that, and I am very tired from work. When I was growing up most of my friends were dateless or met people through school so I never learned from watching them. Many people my age in my area seem to use Tinder, but anything hooked into Facebook and smartphones does not feel sexy at all I like to keep private things private.

And I have a lot of wounds from people and communities I thought I understood based on their Internet personas or public writing, until they took a step too far.

viva · 08-03-18 10:17:37

Your words and experiences intrigue me Priv and I would welcome you to explore any of those questions here, if you were interested, insofar as it's possible to learn and grow with strangers, anonymously. I love to follow the subreddits r/askwomen and r/askmen but they never really go deep.

It sounds like you've been burned before in lots of different ways and so you more than anyone would know how important it is to feel safe. I think people who understand wounds and healing, patience and breathing, make the best partners but there's also a high bar for entry as that sense of "being real" can conflict with "beginning of relationships/dating" expectations which are all about being effortlessly light and fun and trusting and excited. I feel sad when I hear people refer to "emotional baggage" pejoratively... I never met any one who made it to adulthood without being hurt and holding pain or grief on some level, whether its obvious or not. The truly happy people I think are the ones who are comfortable with their own emotions, even and especially the difficult ones. And so they can hold space for those complex feelings, when they are occurring in another person.

privignus · 11-03-18 21:52:35

Thanks viva! Maybe I will be brave and do that.

I feel like the thing to do is to find some regular activity where I meet a variety of people my age (30s) face-to-face, but group activities on a regular schedule like that are hard to find these days because the Internet distracts people. And getting more exercise is healthy and takes me out of my own head

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