#1 16-03-16 04:21:12

viva

pretty pretty princess

Registered: 14-05-10

Posts: 4,113

Website

american prudishness

I read this interesting article about "american sex norms", which basically says americans are big body-fearing prudes.

http://www.salon.com/2015/07/13/5_ameri … d_partner/

It's interesting to me because I can see truth in it - certainly our attitudes towards abortion, sex education, and circumcision seem outdated at best, monstrous at worst. And I haven't lived here in a long while - I'm getting used to it again now - but I remember when I was a girl, other women didn't seem comfortable being naked even in female-only environments. And certainly I can't speak as freely about sex here as I could in Australia, but to be fair I was working at Feck there so my environemnt was particularly open-minded...

but yeah, I dont know. At the same time, so much progressive porn is being made here, and there's a lot of sex-positive activism as well. Is this a tiny drop in the bucket, accentuated by my personal bubble of influence, or is there a decent balance here? What do you guys think - are Americans on the ground as prudish as we seem to the outside world?

Billm61

Member

Registered: 10-10-15

Posts: 53

Re: american prudishness

I think so. In the mainstream, sex is still something that is kept in the bedroom and if talked about at all, it is in the guise of a joke, or  a quiet confidence between friends. Americans are surrounded by nudity in popular culture and advertising, but we are uncomfortable about nudity among ourselves. People who seek out nude beaches and the like are regarded as being on the fringe of polite society. It's probably our Puritan roots. 
I would find it interesting to be immersed in another culture that is open about nudity.

ThatIndividual

Member

Registered: 16-07-15

Posts: 347

Re: american prudishness

I feel like I got screwed out of getting screwed in a lot of ways. I made the mistake (sexually) of going to an engineering college in a small town - great if you're into men. It made sense in other ways, though, and I now make a killer burrito (the food). (And my chile sauce could make leather boots delicious!)

I then moved to Las Vegas. I think LV is probably a great place to talk about American sexuality - in that it's more of a base act than a fundamental part of the human experience. Sex flashes everybody in LV. It's selling everything here, but it's generally attention grabbing. LV, again in my experience, seems more about making an ego statement out of sex than, say, a celebration or loving act. If you place a strict taboo on something then, typically, occurrences of such taboos will be brash and rushed if still hidden. And isn't that what Las Vegas is known for when compared to the greater US?

I should add that's only my impression from seeing the sights and talking to the people in/of Las Vegas. There are good people here. I just wish I lived somewhere more liberal than libertarian.

Last edited by ThatIndividual (18-03-16 00:43:44)

viva

pretty pretty princess

Registered: 14-05-10

Posts: 4,113

Website

Re: american prudishness

Hey TI, what you said about sex as an ego statement really resonated with me. I consider myself a pretty genuine person, in that, I'm not super comfortable with performative sexuality. Even when I was a bit younger and my main mode of sexuality was kind of an emulation of what I thought I should be doing as opposed to a real connection with my own desire, I still believed in what I was doing and showing. It was authentic to me, and honestly a lot of the aspects of my earlier sexuality are still what get me off and make me feel sexy... certain sounds I made, certain things I do with my eyes, talking dirty. For example.

What I've never really been able to do though, is have "game" or like, front, or whatever all that stuff is. One time, in Japan I tried to work as a Hostess (kind of a modern day geisha). I was 17, and the opposite of elegant. I lasted one night, tugging my dress down, stumbling in my heels, kind of clomping around, I dropped the karaoke book at some point and the mama-san called me fat and stupid. I don't think much has changed! except I sort of know who I am more, and I don't try to be someone I'm not.

Anytime I try to  engage with sexuality or aesthetic as an ego statement I inevitably fail! When I try to just be myself and connect to what really makes me feel sensual, I think I have a god feeling about how sexy I can be.

But sometimes I feel like I've lived in a dream land, always engaging with men in sort of fantastic situations, as I've lived a lot of my life abroad. I haven't always been on holiday, but a lot of the men I've been with were on holiday themselves, and so stepping out of their comfort - or rather as it seems sometimes, the discomfort zones they occupied at home. So they were happy to have a passionate and authentic experience with me.

But now I've moved back to the US and gone on a few dates and I feel myself so confused. I know people want to connect genuinely, humans do, whether sexually or emotionally... both and all! But the men I've met always seem nervous, or they kind of want to play games... they're arrogant, which only makes me think how sensitive and fragile they most likely are inside, or they challenge me, which just makes me kind of laugh, like, why? Is that what women generally respond to?

Sometimes I wonder if I'm asking too much, to have like a "genuine" or straightforward and respect-based experience on first date. Is that too much too soon? Are first dates meant to be like weird sparring grounds? If I had pigtails, I feel like these dudes would pull them.

Or is this just how it feels to meet people who aren't right for me?

Okay I've made this personal again haha (tis my wont) but I can't help but wonder if there's some key things I'm missing when it comes to playing Romance on an American home field. Does honesty and forwardness make people uncomfortable in the kind of way where I should censor myself for them, at least a little or something?

I think Las Vegas would at least be cool because sex work is legal. That's a shock for me after living so long in Australia... there should be safe legal brothels here too!

I'm on my way to a "sex positive" meet up today, hoping to find people I can be myself with in this town!

Monotreme

Member

Registered: 21-05-07

Posts: 763

Re: american prudishness

Viva, I don't know you except through these forums, so it's hard to answer your questions based on anything except your writings.

However, what I see is an exceptionally intelligent and passionate woman. I know from my recent dating experiences that men who can handle intelligent and passionate women are rare. Even rarer are men who can handle the intelligent and passionate you.

I often marvelled, as I was out on yet another lousy date that was a total waste of my time, that anyone like me could ever find someone I'm compatible with. Yet I did, it took time, but I had to think outside of my normal "box". Also, it may be notable that she contacted me so maybe she had a better idea of what she was looking for or how to recognize it.

I would note with interest that every single "set up" date was a disaster. Clearly, my friends don't know the kind of woman I'd like to date.

Billm61

Member

Registered: 10-10-15

Posts: 53

Re: american prudishness

I second Monotreme's comments regarding most American men. An intelligent,  articulate, and passionate woman is often viewed as a threat. But, do not despair. There are men for whom a woman like yourself is a refreshing find in a sea of  shallow females. Those are the men who will show respect and interest on the first date, and are willing to invest their time in finding a lasting relationship. Where do you find these men? I can not give you a destination. Keep looking. Stay selective. It will happen.

harcos2016

Member

Registered: 29-03-16

Posts: 144

Re: american prudishness

Are Americans prudish?  I think that's   a very complicated question, which has no precise answer.

Certainly, in the public/political/policy area, we are prudish, and hypocritical, especially  compared to many European countries, and compared to Australia.  In our private lives, we're constrained by our personal boundaries, past  experiences, and insecurities. Those things vary greatly from person to person.

There's also what you could call the "monetarization" or "commodification" of sex, as exemplified by the vast majority of the pornography which is available. Something like 60% of younger American men, and 30% of younger American women, use porn regularly. Several studies show that porn use is actually diminishing the ability of the men, especially, to engage in more traditional (I want to say "normal") sex. The sexual activites shown by most porn sites are often wildly abnormal,  unrealistic (which isn't quite the same thing) and denigrating to both men and women - but especially to women. This is a big problem. Sites like IFM, ISM, Joymii, and similar ones provide a valuable service by showing women actually enjoying sex, and being fulfilled by it.

The personal search for a compatible person of either sex is a separate issue, I think.  It takes time, and it usually takes at least a few dozen encounters with "dates" who aren't quite compatible. But there are good guys, and good gals, out there - in America too! It just takes a lot of time to find "the one".  My wife is a smart, strong woman. It took me many years of dating before I was lucky enough to match up with her. I  have had a few smart, strong female friends both before and after marriage. These were people who really were "friends" - close friends, but not sexual friends. (And by the way, I don't meet any friends, female or male, without telling my wife.)

viva

pretty pretty princess

Registered: 14-05-10

Posts: 4,113

Website

Re: american prudishness

Certainly personal experiences with individuals, and the cultural climate on any given topic are seperate issues, but I can't help conflating them. I cant help intertwining my personal observations with the facts, articles, and books  I read to create a general opinion on a topic, althoigh I generally come around with more questions than answers anyway so I guess that's alright.

more objectively, I have to recognise that you're all correct, and meeting people is kind of a difficult thing, and also the subculture I was involved in in Australia was definitely not representative of the norm! both my feck community (outright based in a shared interest in sexuality) and my group of friends outside work (natural/artistic types) shared an ease and comfort with nudity and sexuality which I'm beginning to suspect is actually rare, no matter how comfortable with sexuality ones' society is at large.

the sex-positive group I visited wasn't for me. It was more of a introduction to a swingers group, actually, than just a group of people with a common intrest in sexuality, but then, I don't know what I thought it could be. Without shared projects, or swing-y type goals, what does getting together to talk about sexuality really mean? I guess I was looking for something like this forum, new open-minded friends, or... not sure, but anyway that was kind of a bust.

yesterday I went swimming at the river. I didn't have a top but I felt ok about it. Still I definitely swam alone and put my shirt back on before rejoining the group. Does one create ones' own sense of ease, and just laugh in the face of social acceptability? the idea of being that bold just makes me feel sleepy. also things are different for me now that I'm single. it was one thing to swim naked with men around when it as all just bodies-are-natural, la la la - I had a boyfriend for so long I didn't consider myself or other people as potential like... I knew that it was unlikely I was  going to have sex with anyone besides him and I rarely think guys look at me that way anyway.

Now it's a bit different because if I'm talking about sexuality or being naked around men there's this question mark, like, oh wait, I have to consider this whole other realm of possibilities, and oh, is this flirting? Are we flirting? Is this 'ease with sexuality' thing actually kind of me sending signals or ....

it's confusing. but maybe this does go into a cultural thing, like, a married man talking to another woman about sex, that's generally considered kind of questionable behaviour, especially if he doesn't share the experience with his wife. Why is this? Do we not trust each other to talk about sex or feelings without developing a dishonest affair? I suppose every couple is different, but I know that emotional cheating is a thing, and it's considered to be a pretty bad thing. I feel like it's a little bit sad, to think that we cannot trust each other to maintain and honour commitments while still engaging in emotional or intellectual intimacy with people who are not our partners.

I wonder if the whole idea of being threatened by your partner talking about sex with someone else is problematic in and of itself. I think it's good for men and women to be able to talk to each other about relationships, emotions, sexuality, memories, etc etc - good to share on a deep level with our fellow humans. The divide between paired couples and the individuals around them seems a little unhealthy to me.

ok I'm just meandering... I've got a tinder date tonight. I think I'm definitely not really in a place to start a relationship so I think these dates are just... maybe it's good for me to learn about saying no, and maybe it's just nice to meet new people. I guess anything could happen.

Here's me at the river. I'm so happy spring is here <3

TZO2K16

Member

Registered: 22-03-16

Posts: 34

Re: american prudishness

Incredibly analytical and passionate people are usually able to view themselves through other's eyes as much as others through their own, this is why I suspect that this issue stands out so much for you, as you approach the subject of sex (Amoung other things I suspect) without bias so that it becomes a jarring experience when facing the hard ignorance of conventional wisdom with the American view of sex vs violence...

But then again, the greatest asset of this nation is its actual nature of being made up of semi-autonomous states, all of which have their own culture, customs, and laws, as evidenced with the freedom of compulsive, gratuitous hugging that is celebrated and encouraged in say, California, whereas in the Northeastern US, it is mandated that you need to be dating, married or a family member at a socially acceptable established event to even be caught dead hugging, or it will be assumed that you're having sex with the person...Yes, I am from the North East...

So it matters a lot where you decide to locate, myself, my eyes are set on Minnesota...Where the winters are arctic, the people are warm and the land, blue!...

Just don't live in the south...Ever...Seriously, they made sexual/religious bias legal...Fuck Mrs. Shitty! (Mississippi)

BTW, I reeeeaaallly want to pinch your cheeks in that pic! ;^)

Last edited by TZO2K16 (08-04-16 15:58:46)

Billm61

Member

Registered: 10-10-15

Posts: 53

Re: american prudishness

Viva, that is such a cute picture. If I were younger....